OldGreyEagle

Do it, like we always say in the Crew, (well almost always) Its easier to beg for forgiveness than ask for permisison

I have always heard, so you know how much value that has, that to be considered an "activity" shirt it has to have the tripoint symbol on it. Then again I could be wrong

Oddly enough, I want to go against the tide of popular opinion and say yes, you can have two charter organizations. This is found on page 9 of the Registration Proceedures Manual (which is given to council registrars and Scout Executives). Last sentence on the section regarding Chartered Organizations is (and I quote) "A unit can be sponsored by more than one chartered organization." This is from the 2003 printing of publication no. 28-901. Sometimes it pays to have friends in low/high (take your pick) places (This message has been edited by OldGreyEagle)

I tried to post the link, but it came up empty, this was in the Allentown PA Morning Call Allentown Scout honors those who served on D-Day Inspiration for his monument came from late grandfather. By Ron Devlin Of The Morning Call From the time he was a child, Sean O'Brien heard stories about how his grandfather, the late Bernard J. O'Brien, landed on Omaha Beach in the D-Day invasion of Normandy in World War II. Inspired by those valiant tales of war, 17-year-old O'Brien has undertaken an extraordinary project in honor of his grandfather and all the soldiers who participated in the largest invasion of World War II. He's erecting a 9-foot, 1,600-pound granite ''D-Day'' monument in Memorial Cove at Allentown's West Park. It started as an Eagle Scout community service project for O'Brien, a member of Troop 74 at St. Catharine of Siena in Allentown. But the magnitude of the young man's undertaking coming 60 years after D-Day has earned him the respect and support of Lehigh Valley veterans' groups. ''His persistence is very much out of the ordinary,'' said Nate Kline, vice president of the Lehigh Valley Military Affairs Council. ''It's unbelievable what he has done.'' Kline, a bombardier in a B-26 Marauder that flew over Normandy on D-Day, will be a speaker when the monument is dedicated at 2 p.m. today. Four days before Veterans Day, the dedication has turned into a patriotic celebration replete with military pomp and circumstance. The program will include a Veterans of Foreign Wars honor guard/rifle squad, a contingent of Air Force ROTC cadets and two buglers playing taps. O'Brien, a senior at Allentown Central Catholic, will address the gathering on how he devised the project and raised $3,000 to support it. The project, six months in the making, has its roots in the relationship between a son, father and grandfather. Bernard O'Brien rarely talked of his World War II experience. A field artillery sergeant in the Army's 29th Infantry Division, he crawled onto Omaha Beach on June 6, 1944. On Aug. 29, 1944, the Evening Chronicle reported that Sgt. O'Brien had been given the Purple Heart for wounds received Aug. 8 in northern France. It was only after O'Brien died in 1986 that his son, Hugh O'Brien, began what turned into a passionate interest in World War II history. It rubbed off on his son, Sean, who's become an avid World War II buff. Hugh O'Brien, 50, is a partner in O'Brien's Really Good Food Co., which has a stand at the Allentown Farmers Market and recently opened a deli restaurant in the 1900 block of Allen Street. Ellen O'Brien is proud of her son's Scout project. Even more important, she says, is the interest in history shared by her son and husband. Hugh and Sean O'Brien went to France in June for the 60th anniversary of D-Day. They walked on Omaha Beach, where Bernard O'Brien had dodged German bullets on the very day six decades earlier. The trip was particularly meaningful for Sean, who had never known his grandfather. Bernard O'Brien, a PPL Corp. draftsman, died before his grandson was born. In Normandy, amid rows of white crosses, Sean found inspiration for the inscription on the slab of Pennsylvania black granite. ''In honor and tribute to the veterans from the Lehigh Valley who bravely fought in the invasion of Normandy, France, to liberate Europe and preserve freedom,'' it reads. Emblazoned across the top of the stone is ''June 6, 1944'' and, under it in large letters, ''D-Day.'' Drawn from a quarry at St. Peter's, Chester County, the 21/2-foot-wide stone is 2 feet thick at its base and narrows toward the top. The front is polished. Wenz Memorial in Allentown prepared the stone and installed it Friday in Memorial Cove, an enclave of war monuments at the east end of West Park. Resting on a pentagon-shaped base, it sits to the right of the First Defenders statue. In refining his idea, Sean toured veterans' monuments throughout Allentown. He was most inspired by the Marine monument in Cedar Creek Park, a circle of sentinel-like granite stones. O'Brien had lots of help with the project from city officials, private contractors and even the United Way ''Teenworks'' program. In the dedication program, he pays special tribute to his grandfathers ''Bernard J. O'Brien, who inspired me, and William T. 'Pappy' Vogel, a World War II Navy veteran who helped lay the foundation.'' Kline, who will present O'Brien with a citation from Mayor Roy Afflerbach, said the impact of what the young Scout has done will grow in importance over time. ''We may not fully realize its importance today,'' said Kline, a retired colonel. ''Sixty years from now, the stone will be there to remind people of the sacrifices made by the World War II generation.'' (This message has been edited by OldGreyEagle)

if I have learned anything, its service http://www.chsscout.net/rescenter/video/index.shtml#section4

The 2004 election has some lessons we can all learn. What being steadfast in our beliefs can do. And we can learn a lot from the Democrats. We can learn that just knowing in your heart you are right isnt enough. You have to translate the message to something people can hear and not be insulted. The red states are not ready for a majority of the Democrats social agenda and that has to be tempered. Sometimes we have to accept people arent where we want them to be, but being insulting and arrogant and talking down to them doesnt work. People sometimes need to be gently guided to where we want them to be, grabbing them by the collars and yanking them along isnt the best-known method. We are all Americans, we all have common ground, we dont have to be divisive.

To paraphrase Tom Hanks in "A League of Their Own" Girls? There's no girls in Cub Scouting!

Sports are on TV, Scouting isnt, the only problem s 20 years from now odds are the 16 year old quarterback wont be playing football, but he can still be scouting

Eamonn, the reason I think it is said that Hillary would be a joke is because of the Blue states red states thing. If John Edwards, as southern a talker as there is can't deliver one state south of the mason dixson line, where will Hillary's support come from? From the same states that voted for John Kerry, minus some for sure. The democratic party needs to understand it needs more Mel Gibson in its ideals and less Michael Moore. Its fun to sit around the Beverly Hills Hotel and make fun of homophobic one toothed trailer park dwellers of the midwest, who go to chuch every sunday, but its a lot harder to get their vote. (and my description was done in total hyperbole, i dont believe it at all). In all the states that had either defense of marriage acts or somehting like that the final total was 11-0 with the gays losing them all. What does that say? It means the country has a conservative core and if you want to be president you have to appeal to the meat of the people. And the meat of the people are not ready to vote for a woman for president, and certainly not as liberal a woman as Hillary is. She may be a smart women, but her mass appeal is not that great right now, its always subject to change.

Not so fast my old Kentucky Home Guy, If a troop wished to pursue "certified" status, one of the requirements would be to have three "site" visitors trained to review other programs. The site visitors would attend troop meetings, go on events and review the doumentation and conduct interviews with the Committee, the Scoutmasters, the PLC and the patrols. No additional professional staff would be needed, its all done by the volunteers and by volunteers from other troops seeking the same status. I see certification as like a 3 month process or more renewable every 3 years, somehting like that. Any how its a thought

Hey Stapler Guy, your post gave me a great idea. I come from a medical background, and all you who work in hospitals know your hospital has to be accredited every three years. Post secondary education institutions have to receive and keep accreditation as well. Why not have a "certified" troop, it could be done on the lines of a Quality Unit, only more in depth. Is your SPL elected, what percentage of your adults are trained, what percentage of youth leaders have been to youth leader training? Can you document a boy lead annual calender? Do you have a first year program/ Those kind of things, participation would be voluntary, but the ones that pass could have a pin that says they are an "accredited troop" while others are just troops. What you think?

Well JD, I don't know if Councils CAN mandate training, I can only tell you that the Council I serve did mandate traing, check out on Page 3 http://www.minsitrails.com/Data/Documents/Newsletter/Sep2004/final.pdf this is the Council newsletter. Doesn't give much wiggle room, do it? Talk about tweaking the program!(This message has been edited by OldGreyEagle)

The Tunkhannock Chapter of the Witauchsoman Lodge, (Minsi Trails Council) has done exactly what you are talking about, last NOAC they were recognized for their efforts regarding mentoring Scoutreach troops. Check out the Tunkhannock Chapter section of the Witauchsoman web page for details http://www.witauchsoman.org/ At the last District Fall Camporee, held at a Council Camp, each Scoutreach patrol had a Troops Guide assigned to it to help navigate from station to station. All troop guides were OA members. These troop guides are serving as mentors to the troops as well, meeting with them and providing their scouting expertise on outings. I am not always a big fan of the OA, but this is something they do which is done well

One of the things the protesters at the 68 Democratic Convention were all "postal" about was the method of selecting the presidential candidate. Back then there really was a "smoke-filled room" replete with party bosses making deals and deciding who would be best to carry this part of the country and who to be VP to appeal to another segment of the population so as to balance out the ticket. After the 68 convention a few reforms went into effect and one of them developed into the primary system whereby the winner of a states primary gets the delegates from that state. This should be a good system except that the way its worked for the past several years the nomination is usually locked up in the first six weeks of the primary season and the country never gets to know all the condidates just the ones who came in 1, 2, 3 in Iowa and new Hampshire and then momentum builds as other less successful candidates drop out and we get left who is left. It may be time to add a little mystery to the process, to keep several candidates viable, I would have liked to have seen more of Westmoreland and a few of the other early drop outs. 08 promises to be a real blow out, I doubt Cheney wants to be president, I mean he already is (almost) and his health would be an issue. So, in 06 we start with a bunch of hopefuls from both sides of the aisle and we start to winnow it down to two opponets who will most likely be shaped by the choices of new hampshire and Iowa. I wonder if we can scheule all the primaries on the same day, any thoughts?

Foto, you don't have to wait for National to make training mandatory, your council can do that, ours did.

Tanks? Troops? No, not yet, although in 1968 I do remember the barb wire around McCormick Place during the Democratic Convention and the real Mayor Daley (Hizzoner)famous quote, "The police are not there to create disorder, the police are there to preserve disorder" or something close to that. Anyway, does anybody remember just what the Yippies were protesting anyway?

I wonder how many of the scouts in the group that went would ever concede the leadership skills they used were taught to them by scouting? You do have proof the scouts have the skill to organize, they just need the proper motivation, sorta like don;t ever do a great job cleaning the toilet, you may end up with a job for life? So, the issue, and the boys are the ones to answer this, what other activities would they embrace with the same passion as paintball? There HAS to be some, doesnt there?

Eagle1973, with apologies 1. My son's 2. Mine 3. Everyone else's

One method of flag retirement that I have seen and participated in is to tie a 3 foot string to each corner of the flag. This allows an honor guard of 4 scouts to bring the flag up over the fire. The updraft of the heat comming off the fire makes the flag float up. The four strings are used to bring the flag down to the flames. If done slowly, the flag will virtually explode into flames before the flag touches anything. Done at night the flag is brilliantly back lit and then the flames engulf the flag. Done with a slow hand, the results are very dramatic.

dan, PM me with a fax number and I will send you the page I referenced

I understand what you mean dan, that thing about not adding to or subtracting from requirements should probably be in the Scoutmasters handbook. It might be as far as I know, but I dont have one to check, I'll leave it up to others to check. In the meantime I guess the BSA expects the Troop Committee to oversee the troop and its activities and assure the program is being adhered too. That would include the Advancement Chair letting the Scoutmaster and assistant scoutmasters know they cant add to or subtract from the requirements.

Ok dan, I was wrong to talk about tweaking patrols especially since I had no idea what the meaning of the word "tweaking" meant The real funny thing is the troop I serve uses new scout patrols and in trying to make a point, I did end up needing to barbecue my shoes because I got my foot firmly implanted in my mouth. However, distractions aside, you asked where it was written that BSA advancement requirements could not be added to or subtracted from. You said you doubted such a policy existed. The reference has been supplied to you. Your unit advancement chairman should have this reference. Now, where do we go from here?(This message has been edited by OldGreyEagle)

It may be a good idea to surf the web a bit and see if you can download a song book and a skit idea book. Not all of scouting has to be as ponderous as how mnay scouts comprise a perfect patrol or just what the rules on advancement are !

Was the bidding process open to all? What was the selection criteria? Inquiring minds want to know!!!

As I was standing in line at my duly designated polling place my mind started to wander, I really need a leash for it donchaknow. I was thinking about what a great institution the American system of governemnt is, when I realized my precincts voting place is the basement hall of the local Methodist Church and has been for several years. I checked the newspaper when I got home, nearly 20 percent of the designated polling places in my county are either churches or parochial or other religious schools. So, it set my mind to wander further. Is having voting in a designated religious building a violation of separation of church and state? Doesnt voting in a church or religiously run school imply some sort of endorsement of that religion? Why was the Methodist church chosen and not the Baptist, why was the Catholic school and not the Lutheran? Then I pondered on, none of these religious institutions get reimbursed for their efforts. So, it sets the mind to ponder again. Is not providing a rent free, secure place for voting a valuable service a church provides to the community and if that church wished to place a religious display on public land in that community as return for such a service, would that not be equitable? Just a thought, as we used to say in Chicago, may the right man win, then again, he always does