OldGreyEagle

Having been a long time forum member, I have to say I was not really looking forward to seeing where this thread was going to go. I do have to say that for the most part everyone has been pretty civil in tone. I know its hard to read a poster's thought and not relate them to past transgressions or perceived transgressions but to move forward, we have to leave comments behind and only respond to a poster's comment on the curent thread

I always use that question at Eagle Boards of Review, usually with well thought out answers. Last year, one evening I got a phone call, Mr GreyEagle, a familiar scoutmaster's voice rang, arent you supposed to be here for a Eagle Board of Review,? Oh no I said, thats next week. Well, the Scoutmaster says, I have it down as tonight. I checked my calender and sure enough, it was that night. So, I fly into my uniform and get over to the Board, luckily it was close and I was maybe 20 minutes late. We conduct the meeting, talk about his scouting career, what he loved, what he had trouble with and I ask, what would be your 13th point? So, his answer, which came quite quickly so I know he didnt just think of it, "Punctual", I turned red, the kid turned purple and the other attendees turned the place upside down. The scout was effusive in apologies, but I told him, it was I who needed to apologize to him. Will never forget that one

Troop251scout, What skills are you talking about ?(This message has been edited by OldGreyEagle)

Seeing as how Baden-Powell saw a strong religious conviction as an important cornerstone in a boys life, I don't see it as an BSA issue or an American issue, I see it as a private organization being true to its founders ideals in a world where organizations are expected to change core values as society changes.

I beleive you mean 2003 BSA Caving booklet number 19-102A havent found it online as yet

Awhile back our troop had two very active Chaplain Aides, and they always had a Scouts own planned for Sunday. One featured the song "Day by Day" which, as it turned out, has a tune only known by the scoutmaster and yours truly. It may be a good question if after we two sang it the rest of the troop knew the tune as well but I digress. The next January we crossed over quite a few new scouts, amoung which was Sam, a real gung ho scout and his father Sam Sr. And yes, they are Jewish. The first camp out with the first years is held and during the scouts own one of the Chaplain aides offers a prayer to Lord Jesus Christ our Savior. I didnt think a thing of it until I saw Sam Sr talking to the Scoutmaster after the service. Yikes I thought, I forgot about Sam jr and Sam Sr. Next Camp Out the Chaplain Aides were briefed and the Scouts Own reviwed and there was no problem. Just a generic prayer to the Father. Third Campout, an adult slip up occurred. The service wasnt reviewed, because the Scoutmaster felt the Chaplain's Aides understood the parameters and all was ok until the end when the same Chaplains Aide ended by saying, now in the words Jesus gave us, Our Father... Next vignette, Sam Sr in a little more determined discussion with the scoutmaster. On the following Campout the scoutmaster didnt attend, neither did I and as you may well guess, another Jesus reference, rather innocent from what I was told, but there. Sam Jr and Sr werent heard from again. The offending Chaplain's Aide ended up leaving the troop because his mother was tired of him getting "yelled at" (no voices were raised, but his services were critisized) for mentioning Jesus. Was the troop intolerant by not better training and keeping better track of the Chaplain's Aide? Was Sam Sr intolerant and should have expected a few "slip ups" as the troop moved to a more secular "non-christian" style of service? Was Jesus happy at any of this ? (and I dont mean to offend anyone by that comment) I dont know, but I can tell you I miss Sam Jr and Sr.

Please Please Please, catapult is such a pedestrian word, I am sure you meant trebuchet. Why not a station where you would make your own rope? From Flax or wool to string, to twine to rope to lashing? I already sorta mentioned the cooking without utensils, but something else on that line might be pretty good. As well as finding your way without a compass, over the grounds of your Faire, simple instructions such as go east 50 feet, north 30 feeet, southeast 10 feet something like that. If you have a waterfront, try "poling" a canoe, all with ye olde PFD of course. What about a chopping block where they can wield either a full length or 3/4 axe? Fire without matches is a natural as well poling

Everything EagleinKY says is on target, you may also want to look at your own style, have you been to Council/Distirct Junior Leader training? I forget the current abbreviation and probably butchered the title. You say your assistants and Patrol leaders are not "trustworthy" do you tell them this? And if so in what tones? Are you encouraging them or are you deriding and insulting them. Do you tell them what to do or do you ask them what to do ? Do you do your best work for a teacher who fumes and rants and raves or for a teacher who motivates with positive encouragement? You seem to be a gung ho scout and thats great, one of the hardest lessons for us gung ho'ers to learn is that not everyone has the same e'spirit de corp as we have inately and its up to us to motivate those who need it. In the BSA there are four recognized leadership styles, Directing, Supporting, Coaching and Delegating, there is a time and place for each style and you shouldnt get stuck relying on any one style, vary it to fit the situation. On a campout there may be a situation where a decision must be made as to where to locate the flagpole. You could say, ok, the flagpole goes there, but it would be better to get your PLC together and say ok, we need to decide where to put the flagpole. Let them make the decision, after all when we say Boy-run, Boy is taken to be plural, not singular. BTW, if you think I am all wet, let me know, it happens

Cant beat Knoebels in Elysburg PA http://www.knoebels.com/

You just have to have an open pit with a pig or goat on a spit and turkey legs and wings to be eaten with one hand And a maypole with "Men Without Hats" singing "the safety dance" in the background and have plenty of mead on hand (Iced tea with honey) And you have, just have, to have a chorus line of the dads singing "men in tights" from Mel Brooks movie of the same name (This message has been edited by OldGreyEagle)

Wow, so much to answer and a few questions. First of all there are Venturing Crews, which as separate and distinct BSA units, and then there are Venture Patrols, which are part of a Boy Scout Troop. If you aren't a member of a Venturing Crew. then I am not sure what Venture program you speak of, but back to your quesitons. On the Boy Scout uniform, the eagle patch comes off and the eagle square knot goes on when the scout turns 18, for Venturing Crew members, (wears the green shirt)(well maybe) the eagle rank patch may be left on till 21

Right now I feel a lot of love in this room, and while I would love to bask in the glow of your compliments, if I really was as good as you say I would have the perfect comment to quell the turmoil and I am afraid I don't have it. The only advice I have is perhaps we all say a prayer for each other and move on to other threads, at the very least, say the prayer

Actually BadenP, we could use more of such posts

I am not sure there may be a scouting gene, but I am sure there is a "service" gene. My father was an assitant scoutmaster in the troop of my youth. My mother was a real uniformed Den Mother who wa awarded "Woman of the Year" in our community one year and my father recevied the St Georges medal for work with Catholic youth. After they retired and moved away from the community, my father has gone on to work with the American Legion, served a few terms as post commander, the Knights of Columbus and the local farm buruea, while my mother worked with the ladies club of their church.

"Girl Scout Race - I know, sacrilege to some. We've got a lot of sisters in Girl Scouts. They bring their cars and race as well." naw, not sacrilege, just celebrating diversity... and fun and beginning the inevitable recruitment to Ventures

Just trying to keep it fair and balanced, you didnt insult Trevorum, did you ? I read your post a few times and I dont think so, but in fairness I felt like I had to ask.

Not that it may matter, but has he filled out an application? Have you talked to the Committee Chair? Has the CO approved his application? With the required background check required of all new leaders, he cant just sew on a patch and appear in uniform, can he?

When I was a youth our scoutmaster smoked like a chimney, he once inhaled an entire cigarrette and then played taps on his bugle. The picture of the smoke rolling out of the bugle is a prized possesion. The adults of the troop would commonly share a six pack around the campfire, Schlitz I think was the favorite. The scouts all knew better than to snitch a swallow as you could end up with a bloody stump if you even pretended to grab for the beer. Sometimes I wonder if the example of adults each drinking one can of beer and enjoying fellowship rather than drinking themselves stupid would not be more powerful than the current policy of ignoring the fact alcohol is part of our culture. The problem, I know, is one injury from one tipsy scoutmaster and its all over so no alcohol on scout trips. BTW, my scoutmaster smoked Camels, even back then he called them his coffin nails....

Trevorum, I understand that a person can get rankled at Rooster, I know I have many times, but do we need personal attacks, you may not agree with him, you might not want to watch football with him but cant we just leave it at that ?

Thats the one, I have an award to give to an adult scouter who is very much like the postman, always around, always it seems in the perphery, but always there. Hardly ever noticed but without whom the troop would not be the same. I want to reference this story at the presentation. EagleinKY, many thanks

I usually have a mind like a steel trap, once I have something, it never escapes, but alas this time it has. I remember reading a short story many years ago about a murder mystery, I am not sure if the title was along the lines of "The Invisible Man" or not. In the end, the hero solves the murder by deducing the perpetrator was the neighborhood postman. The postman had been so Ubiquitous for so many years people stopped "seeing" him. allowing him to almost get away with murder. Does this ring any bells with anyone? I need the title and author

I have a question about this thread and a few other like it. Apparently the new trend in PWD is to have the boys keep racing their cars and not do the elimination thing, where a boy knows his car is out of the running and he either cries, goes home or both. I understand the sentiment having never done very well in the PWD either as a cub or a dad. Now, a while back there was a thread about activities where everyone won an award and I thought the forum generally was of the opinion that such "everyone wins" activities were part of the weenie-ing of America. And I understand that sentiment, that kids have to learn that in a race, only one person wins. So, why the rush in the PWD to have the kids continue to race? Isnt this just a watered down version of everyones wins? Just a thought, like I have mentioned, I have a bad head cold so if I dont make sense blame the nyquil

Holy Cow Fire Kat, I have lead you astray. I didnt mean any of that. Although I see how my posting may have lead you to that conclusion. My son earned a lot of merit badges, all legitimately I beleive, and he only received one from esoteric dad, and that was the safety merit badge, it had been Eagle required but I beleive personel Fitness supplanted it. it was esoteric dad's son that had the multitude of merit badges all counseled by dad, and the kid didnt understand half of them, or so it seems. It was after his era in the troop the troop adopted a guideline that a parent would not counsel a son for an eagle required badge unless it was done in a group. Now, that is only a guideline and if a duly recognized counselor for a eagle required badge counselef their son, there is nothing that can or should be done about it. Its about propriety, nothing else. Is that better?

You could get your Council to mandate training or not get rechartered. They did it in mine, if the primary adult, Cubmaster, Scoutmaster or Crew Advisor was not trained, the unit did not get rechartered. This year they are going after Committee Chairs, if the Scoutmaster and Chair are not trained then in 2006 the unit will not recharter. Is it a success? Time will tell, they are working on a training requirment for ASM and committee members for 2007, nothing is decided yet

Actually Mollie, Ol' Lem was ahead of his time. Since it was only him, and no two deep leadership to be seen, you can take that hike as a patrol outing, and in a patrol outing scouts can even camp without any adults as long as the plan is approved by the scoutmaster. BTW, if you listen to the beginning of the movie, you will find out that the town Lem settles in is about 3 hrs from Chicago. There is a comment made that they have to get to Chicago by dark as the bus has a broken tailight. I lived in Illinois for almost 25 years, there is no place around Chicago that remotely looks like the scenery shown in the movie. Then again, the Christmas tree shopping scene from Naitonal Lampoons Christmas vacation would have you beleive Chicago is just a few miles away from the steppes BTW 2, showed FOllow Me Boys during a movie lock in, billed it as showing how Snake Pliskin got his start, Escape from New York and Escape from LA came next(This message has been edited by OldGreyEagle)