OldGreyEagle

Perhaps the OA and its weekends would be more readily accepted, and more youth would take to "it" if the weekends didnt have a component of the older youth competing to see how little work they could get away with. This may not happen everywhere, but in Lodges where there is ordeal apathy, I wonder how strong the role modeling of the older youth is of getting out there and doing work?

There are stories in the Troop of an older scout who when asked by the scoutmaster who started Boy Scouts, would reply "I don't know". This was after being told about B-P many, many times. Finally, an ASM pulled him aside and asked him why he couldn't remember that B-P started Boy Scouts. The scout started to smirk and laugh and said, I know who started Boy Scouts, but I love the way Mr. Scoutmaster's vein in his forehead squiggles and he gets red whenever I say that and then he gets all excited and tells me all about B-P and Mafeking and the unknown boy scout. Armed with that bit of information, that the scout just loved to see the reactions, people stopped asking and explaining about B-P Sometimes it better not to play into the hands of one who seeks to manipulate(This message has been edited by OldGreyEagle)

So Dug, You and your troop are OK with teaching your scouts its ok to bend the rules as long as you know its right?

"Parents ARE indeed the first and biggest obstacle when dealing with homesickness." Gee Dug, maybe you should have more fatih in your parents and perhaps have a little more respect for them, many will doubtless amaze you with flashes of maturity.

If a scout joins a troop at age 10 years and 6 months, and it takes him 17 months to earn Eagle.(17 months is the minimum time), then he is an Eagle scout at 12 years and 1 month. Is he a paper Eagle? I dont know, it depends on the program that signed off he requirements. I think the focus should be on the "deathbed Eagles" actually. The ones who get the paper work in to Council as the sun is setting on the 17th year 364th day of his life. I wonder if more corners were cut for him that any "too young" Eagle. Scouts earn ranks because adults who oversee the program allow them. Advancement is at the motivation of the scout. Artifical barriers are wrong, as is providing "breaks" for a deathbed care(This message has been edited by OldGreyEagle)

Dug, doubtless your scouts know other scouts from other troops. Do your scouts ever ask why you do things so different from the other troops?

So I am traveling this week, and have not been around as much as usual, sorry about that sunglasses thing, and here I am in the heart of FLorida. I get ready to pull out this morning when I see the huge 4 wheeler in the hotel parking lot with the decal GIT'R DONE on the front winshield. Didn't look sexist, racist, or whatever to me. Let the kids run with it, if its offending to local tastes, they will soon fond out and how they deal with it will be lesson for all as well.

The Scout Executive was making the point that uniform parts could be redused in price if we bought non-USA. I dont beleive he was trying to make a case that a shirt was the "uniform". In all the discussions we have over uniforms and pants and the like, what would be the thoughts if the uniform was from Bangaladesh and cheaper, how much less would it have to cost before it would be ok ?

We are Mr Lastname in the troop. My son has taken to calling me Mr GreyEagle just beause he knows it gets my attention. I tend to tune out the hey dads, but his voice with my last name usually stops me. At times we will answer to Mr bobby's dad if the last name is hard or the scout new. and we have our assortment of ethnic tongue twisters, but the idea is to teach the kids the names, not make them easier, after all, they know most of the kids in school and they use their names there as well. A few scouts will try to use adult first names. just to see what will happen. Usually they get ignored until the correct Mr appears, then its business as usual.

So. you have scouts handle boards of review up to and including first class. Why no say so instead of the big intrigue thing. Sounds like you know what you should be doing, you just don't and then want to argue why you are better. Why argue ? You arent likely to change and those who do it by the book arent likely either, whats your reason? Most here already know plenty of programs that think their way is better.

Dan, how did you make that assumption ?

I never sausage terrible puns!

At last nights' Roundtable the COuncil Key conducted what was called a fire side chat, they sit and listen to comments and questions and make some questions and comments themselves. The topics of discussion? Poor communication Cost of Uniforms- Our SE says the shirt could be sold for $15 if the BSA bought them overseas, actually is that a problem ? A Cubmaster from a School that also has a Scoutreach Pack complained there was competition for the schools facilities and that the Scoutreach program always seemed to "win" Adult volunteers fighting with adult volunteers and that when this happens its the kids who lose out Concerns voiced that the Camps needed substantial Capital improvements The Scouting Professionals seemed to only focus on numbers of youth and units and not program quality There may have been a few more comments, but as I sat there, I got an immense feeling of Deja Vu, so tell me, was anyone here there last night? it seems most of were, one way or another

what if the earring was instead a gold cross stud?

JohnD, My comment was based on the article, that the pupils had to sit through the presentation. The issue of whether or not the presentation should have been done during class time isnt mentioned in the initial post. I dont think the BSA should have any more or less access than any other private group

SO it would have been preferable to have the Boy Scout rep say all you Atheists can leave. and then have everyone watch the students who leave declare their beliefs ?

Boy Scouts is a boy led program, and part of that phrase is "program". There is a mission statment, the Aims, and the Methods and folling those attributes constitues the program. The boy lead troop can no more change the uniform than say it only takes 10 merit badges for Eagle BTW, I dont hate the pants, they are pants and dosent the BSA have a satisfaction guarantee or your money back or replacement? It seems if the pants are that bad and wear that poorly, I would urge those disatisfied with the pants to return them to the scout store, get a replacment pair, maybe if enough people did that, the design would change. Of course that would require those to love to complain to actualy do something which may be asking a lot of some...

The Guide to Safe Scouting says: Constructive discipline. Discipline used in Scouting should be constructive and reflect Scouting's values. Corporal punishment is never permitted. and Unit Responsibilities Adult leaders of Scouting units are responsible for monitoring the behavior of youth members and interceding when necessary. Parents of youth members who misbehave should be informed and asked for assistance in dealing with it. The BSA does not permit the use of corporal punishment by unit leaders when disciplining youth members. So, how does your behavior square with BSA policy? (This message has been edited by OldGreyEagle)

Ready Aim Fire

Hi

Under any curriculum, a group of dedicated scouters getting together to learn and design ways to improve their units, districts, councils and scouts would have a barrel of fun no doubt. The issue is the degree to which one group denigrates another's experience. I have no doubts the "old course" was a wonderful experience and was as much fun as I had in the new course. Both were/are great for the development of scouters and scouting. And I used to be a Bear

Lets see now in the last couple days it has been poated the uniform is lame/dorky and way too expensive and just about guarnateed to run kids off, the new Wood Badge program is a pale imatation so inept that people who havent taken it feel as though they have a right to riddle until it approaches swiss cheese, the program is inefficiently run and has no vision or imagination and we need a huge advertising campaign, so, I have to ask, is there anything the BSA does right and what is it and if you cant answer, why do you do what you do ?

I tend to go with propane, unless you have or could have some restriction on transportation, or tunnel traversing or some such thing

I guess I am a little confused, first of all one of the reasons the uniform is seen as a hinderance is because it is thought to be a little to "militaristic" and then a continuing theme seems to be the pants should be BDU's. Anybody tell me what the B in BDU stands for? (Battle Dress Uniform) The field uniform is not adequate for camping, it is not designed for back country use and I am not sure we would want it that way. We have people all over the forum kicking about how expensive the uniform is and then we hear about having two separate uniforms, one for "dress" occasions such as COH, parades and other such things and then they want a "back country uniform" as well. So, I can see why the uniform section of the BSA would be confused. The History Channel is running a series on American Icons, in the clip that introduces the shows is a troop of boy scouts carrying American Flags, obviously in a parade, why would we want to change an image that is identified with America?

I understand what the fuzzy ursinus refers to. In the olden days, (pre-wood badge for the 21rst Century)) You could tell a dedicated Wood Badger by his campaign Hat, stave and knobby knees as they always only wore shorts when in uniform. Back then you were "invited" to attend Wood Badge, actually you still are invited to do Wood Badge, except now its known you can spply for an invitation, you don't need to be accepted by the whole herd. If you didnt do "real" scouting, as defined by the Wood Badgers, then you were worthless to them. In this forum, back when the concept of the 21rst Wood Badge course was introduced there was much wailing and gnashing of teeth as if changes in the Wood Badge course would rip the fabric of western civilizaiton and result in anarchy (no offense intended Anarchist)throughout the globe. I took the first 21rst Century Wood Bage in the Council, and then when it was completed was told by scouters I used to respect how inferior it was to the old course and how I really shouldnt count my self as being truly "beaded" as I had taken an inferior course. Then again, this is the same group that marks the beginning of the downfall of American society with the ratification of the 19th amendment