OldGreyEagle

Talk about confusion, but I just know if we try hard enough we will understand. Well, I not thinking of a Junior Venturing group. I was thinking that the Venture Program Arts and Hobbies section would answer the question of starting a garage band (how many chords in G-l-o-r-i-a?) or the lawnmower repair group. I was not considering those still in middle school (grades 6-8) not in the Venturing age range What about the Learning for Life program? I dont know much about it other than its for the age range I think we are talking about and is open to all, and I mean all youth. Could this program help? A quick description of what I council I serve does in this regard is found at http://www.minsitrails.com/programs/learning.asp

Maybe I should have stood in bed, but here I go What did I misunderstand? I thought the Venturing Program would do nicely as the alternative program you seemingly asked for

Does anybody see how a Arts and Hobby, or a Relgious Life, or Sports Venturing Crew with youth 14 to 21 would work with the parallel BSA program?

So Ed, because I cant prove its genetics that means you are right? TJ, I didnt mean to suggest that Gay was a defect, only that there are many things that are part of a person from birth. I used the genetic examples because people here, will say being Gay is a choice because if it was genetics then no Gays could be born. I was trying to use examples that some traits are not exhibited in every generation. Now that I think about it, I could have used the example of the boy with red hair in a family of all brunettes, except a distant cousins mothers uncle. I did not intend to say gays are defective, like I said before, or if I didnt in this thread, I will now, the main reason I try to stay out of these threads is because I find myself not adequately explaining myself. But I do join in when seemingly unsufferable oafs repeat non sensical arguments that have more a ring of rehearsed cacophony logic than actual thought. When I see the gifts that some people are born with, intelligince, athletic prowess, etc, why cant sexual orientation be one of them?

I know on the topic of genetics and homosexuality there has been am argument that if it was genetic, then why does it continue, as one would think it should "die out" as gays are loath to participate in the reproductive cycle. But many things that are genetic dont manifest themselves in every generation. For example, the native americans of the great plains had the legend of the white buffalo, and indeed they do exist, its called albinoism (see Edgar and Johhny Winter, loved Frankenstein). One white buffalo may appear once every 100 years. The White buffalo may not reproduce another white. The fact anecephaly (I got the spelling wrong the first time, my bad) continues even though those born with it never reproduce that way tells me it doesnt take those manifesting the genes to pass them along. What determines temperment? Families knw of relatives that seemd to be born anrgy and are angey the rest of their lives, others are quite placid in temperment and rarely show anger, all in the same family. What determines right or left handedness, dominant eye (for shooters) So, the quesiton is, why cant sexual orientation be genetic, I can't prove it is, but what is the proof it is not?

Guys, whats the GSA? Now the GSUSA, them I know

Print is dead Egon Spangler Ghostbuster's There are those who would say in today's electronic video game world full of to many scheduled activities, that the art of reading for entertainment is dead, or at least many people thought it was. But along comes an author who gave the demographic (roughly the same as cub/boy scouts) what interested them and a welfare mother makes millions. Perhaps we should take heart in Harry Potter, if we give that same demographic something that interests them, we will be enriched as well, just not with money but with members. Their curiosity can be stirred, it just has to be what interests them, not adults, it needs to be boy run, wait, where have I heard that before?

I am not a geneticist nor do I play one on TV, nor did I stay at a Holiday Inn. I don't know if being gay is genetic, then again I don't know if its a choice either. I

Ah Ed, I beleive you are not considering the whole picture. Something could be genetic, but doesnt have to manifest itself in each generation. What about Aencephaly? Those babies die almost immediately, but it still happens, how is that possible?

Cant we all just MoveOn

As perfect as we like to think we are, nature sometimes throws us a curve, even at birth. I have seen infants with 6 fingers, I have seen babies born without a skull (Aencephally). I have seen otherwise normal looking adults have their organs in the wrong place, the heart on the right side, the liver on the left (citus inversus). I have seen (my son) a child whose brain reverses some letters making reading near impossible (dyslexia), I know of children being born without sight or without the ability to hear. Extrophy (also my son) covers an entire gamut of physical appearances. So, if someone were to ask me does it make sense that a male could be born "liking males" and a woman born "liking females" I have to think that as the reproduction of human beings is far from perfect, why couldn't it happen? I have heard the argument that being born gay is impossible because its not natural. Its not natural that people are born blind or without hearing. Its not natural not to be born without a bladder, its not natural to be born with a brain that transposes figures, its not natural to be born with 6 fingers on one hand, its not natural to be born without a skull, but all these things happen. Why can't it happen that there are those born same sex oriented? People dont choose to be dyslexic, or blind, or deaf either.(This message has been edited by OldGreyEagle)

(paraphrased from the Greatest Movie of all time) Whitey after being asked to be part of Troop 1, Hickory "Aw, I don't want to be no part of a bunch of daisy pickin' moma's boys" So, there has always been peer opposition

Interesting Topic, The Position of Responsibility lasts 4 or 6 months, its the job of the Scoutmaster to see to it the scout has the training necessary to satisfactorily complete the term. If after a month 6 weeks or so the scout is floundering, support should be given to the scout, after a few months of working with the scout, an assessment should be done and the scout allowed to "go it on his own". Now, if the scout does not fulfill the requirements of the POR, as explained by the scoutmaster or designee, perhaps the scout wasnt ready for the position and he should be relieved of the position. THis is not to be taken lightly. As in any "termination" the scout needs to review what was expected of him, what was done to help him and then what the issue(s) are that lead to his dismissal. The scout isnt told he "sucks" just that the posiiton needs to be done as its expected. I recognize this isnt easy on the scout, although he should have a pretty good idea he isnt doing the job right. If he is in denial about it, then a larger problem is uncovered. Why worry about all this? because of the message it sends the troop. Adults will support struggling scouts, but wont do the job for them and if they dont try to improve, they can be "fired". Actions have consequences, just like in the real world.

Rooster, I would not expect many members of Mothers Against Pornography to not have a problem with Pornography, however, there are members of the BSA, some of whom are frequent posters on this forum, who don't share the some attitude of gays as is the official BSA policy.

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You know, I've been told, by them who says they know, that in the Library of Congress there are a couple of copies of Mein Kampf as well as collected works of Karl Marx including Das Kapital and a work that Marx and Frederick Engels collaborated on called the Communist Manifesto as well as Chairman Mao's Little Red Book and the thought and works of Nikita Khrushchev When an organization seeks to only allow one side of a story to be told and always, predictably, takes a certain tact or direction, in spite of facts, it runs a good chance of becomming mistaken as the Democratic/Republican Party (take your pick, I intended to insult them both)(This message has been edited by OldGreyEagle)

Being a High School seminarian I think I may have worried my parents about my sexuality, but I knew I was straight when I saw Jill St John in the that Bikini in Diamonds are Forever, you know the one where she helps Bond outwit the guy who ends up being the narrator of the Rocky Horror Picture show? As I remember, she was quite cheeky

"Are we allowed to wear our hearts on our sleeves?" I am not sure why one would put the life rank patch on a sleeve, but I do know our intelligence is shown by what we post

Matt, TJ, all the necessary histrionics aside, but what are you doing to change the BSA policy? It may be fun to listen to people on the forum, but I think you only find here what we all expect. Some Pro, some Con, some ambivalent, but I doubt you will change anyone's opinion. So, what is the goal?

http://www.usatoday.com/sports/preps/football/2001-12-26-allusa-marinovich.htm the kid did fine as long as Daddy was watching, when he got to college, he didnt know how to act. Perhaps a few lessons in character would have helped, he had the physical skills, but not the mental ones

Anyone know the story of Todd Marinovich?

I start down this path knowing I will most likley not explain myself the way I want, but that has never stopped me before. We talk about the children, well, in past threads and in current ones we discuss ADD, ODD, dyslexics and any manner of other physical and mental ills. We expect scouters to handle these problems and more, with help of course,but still face issues not found in everyones home. We expect scoutmasters to be the adult friend to the boy that B-P envisioned and now we are to add the "gay" scout? I am sorry if this offends, but sexuality has no place in boy scouts. If a 14 year old boy started telling me what a huge heterosexual he was, active or not, I would be directing him back to this parents, pastor, guidance counsleor, etc. I might be explaining this wrong, but when we start thinking about the "gay" child versus the "straight" child, we have lost, its the child, no more no less. If a scout wishes to overtly demonstrate/discuss sexuality either gay or straight, I don't want a thing to do with it, and neither does the BSA (well I could be wrong on the BSA side, but I doubt it) Now. Matt, I guess you or TJ would be the proper people to ask, but of all the gay parents/legal guardians there have been, what is the breakdown of the childrens sexuality gay vs straight as opposed to the general population.

So, just for grins, lets say BSA in a bold stroke of whatever eliminates the uniform division. They decide they wont market shirts or pants anymore. Instead they dictate a specific model and color Columbia shirt and pants. You get your patches at the scout store per usual and sew them on. Pros? Cons? First con I see is someone will complain that the REI counterpart should have been choosen and the sears look alike is "near as good"

While the perfect dog may never be described, I know one thing the consensus says, a hot dog should never be banned... Now, who has a recipe for some real kielbasa?

Oh Beav, you wrote " An eagle on the chest is optional" I would say an Eagle on the chest when all the requirements are met... And if you are man enough for a full pec to pec to navel Eagle, you Are a man my son!