OldGreyEagle

As a member of the Disrict Advancement Committee, I understand the value of the Life to Eagle Seminar, I put them on. Scouts who attend these seminars are much more familiar with the process, tend to have less redo's and not as much work on the redo of their Project application because they know what is expected of them. But we don't make them mandatory. If the scout doesnt attend and faces several attempts at getitng his project approved and his buddy attends anf has no problems, maybe the importance of preparation is learned. I think it would be aonderful if every Star/Life scout attended the seminar, but just because its a wonderful idea doesnt make it proper to add as a requirement. We may all agree its ok to make attendance mandatory because, well heck its a great idea. Then someone says that it would really help the scout skills of the council if all Eagle candidates had to earn the Pioneering merit badge, which is the most boy scouty of all merit badges, and heck thats a great idea as well and who could argue against it. And in todays society, every Eagle candidate earns the Emergency Prep whether or not they also earn the Livesaving merit badge. At what point do good intentions warp the program beyonf recognition?

"The U.S. Supreme Court ruled that income tax was unconstitutional. (1916)" Funny how that one didnt make the list of times the Supreme Court reversed itself.

Indeed it is the National Executive Board, it saddens me deeply to know that such abuse can occur in a program with such highly stated goals. I beleive it was F. Scott Fitzgerald who said "Show me a hero and I'll write you a tragedy.". I can't stand that the BSA is becomming a tragedy

And I thought we become sdults when we accept its not all about us

from the BSA Publication "Advancement Committee Policies and Procedures" you will find the following concerning Scoutmaster Conferences: One of the most enjoyable experiences of being a Scoutmaster is the opportunity for a Scout and his leader to sit down and visit together. In large troops, Scoutmasters occasionally assign this responsibility to assistant Scoutmasters or members of the troop committee; but this is unfortunate, because most Scoutmasters feel that this is truly the opportunity to get to know the Scout and help him chart his course in life. A good conference should be unhurried. It helps the Scout evaluate his accomplishments and to set new goals with his Scoutmaster. This can be accomplished at a troop meeting, camping trip, or in the Scout's home. Goal setting by the Scout makes it possible for the Scoutmaster to help the Scout with his weaknesses and encourage him to use his strengths. The Scout (joining) conference is probably one of the most important associations a Scout will have in his Scouting career. It is at this conference that the Scoutmaster illustrates to him the adult-youth relationship that is unique to Scouting. All through the ranks, it is rewarding for the Scoutmaster to observe the Scout grow in responsibility and maturity. It is through this association and example that a young man grows and matures, and the Scoutmaster conference accomplishes that aim. (See Scoutmaster Handbook, chapter 8.) Its not the Scoutmaster's Troop its not the scouts Troop, its the CO's Troop. The boys enjoy the program and the adults are stewards of the program. Its knuckleheads like this drunk on power that will kill the BSA faster than council mis management. Well, maybe they are equally deadly

Its moronic "rules" like this that suck the joy of scouting out of troops. Is it in the BSA rules that a Troop can add requirements? It most certainly is NOT, but that doesnt stop Troops from doing idiotic twists to the program based on the fact someone thinks they have a better way. There are many many references you can use to dispute this added requirement. In the BSA Publication "Advancement Committee Policies and Procedues" #33088D there is found Advancement Rules and Regulations Article X, Section 1 Clause 6 Clause 6. Ranks. There shall be the following ranks in Boy Scouting: Tenderfoot, Second Class, First Class, Star, Life, and Eagle. The requirements shall be those authorized by the Executive Board and set forth in official Scouting publications. Eagle Palms may also be awarded on the basis of requirements authorized by the Executive Board and set forth in official Scouting publications The requirements are those authorized by the BSA executive board not the scoutmaster or troop committee. On page 23 of this publication it states "No Council, District, unit or individual has the authority to add to or subtract from any advancement requirement.

YIKES $$$

See the way he walks down the street Watch the way he shuffles his feet How he holds his head up high When he goes walking by - He's my guy When he holds my hand I'm so proud 'Cos he's not just one of the crowd I bet he's always the one To try the things I've never done And just because of that they will say - Hey! He's a rebel and he'll never ever be - any good He's a rebel 'cos he never ever does - what he should And just because he doesn't do what - everybody else does That's no reason why I can't give him all my love He is always good to me - always treats me tenderly He's not a rebel, no - no - no He's not a rebel, no - no - no - to me - e - e - e If they don't like him that way They won't like me after today I'll be standing right by his side - when they say He's a rebel and he'll never ever be - any good He's a rebel 'cos he never ever does - what he should And just because he doesn't do what - everybody else does That's no reason why - we can't share a love He is always good to me - always treats me tenderly He's not a rebel, no - no - no He's not a rebel, no - no - no - to me - e - e - e (he's not a rebel - no - no - no) No - no - no (he's not a rebel - no - no - no) (he's not a rebel - no - no - no) No - no - no (he's not a rebel - no - no - no)

One topic that we have periodically that works well is a meeting devoted to the organizations that have sponsored Eagle service projects. They come and talk about projects that have been done, ideas they have, leave contact information. We invite Life or soon to be Life scouts and its beneficial to the scouts and newer leaders and the organizations beneifit from the exposure.

One of the hardest things there is in scouting has to be the transition from scout to adult. In some way the scout has to be conflicted, after all, the scouts are his guys and buddies and friends and now he is an adult. The key is making sure everyone knows that things are different, but that the person is the same. Did I lose you? I almost lost myself. Here is a ceremony you can use to show the that the scout is now a leader Bridging a Scout to ASM Scoutmaster: Tonight, we are saddened to say farewell to one of our Scouts whom has reached the age of 18. As you know, Boy Scouting officially ends for our youth at the age of 18. I have asked our Commissioner (name), to be present this evening in order to assist (name), our Troop Committee Chairman and myself with this presentation. Will (rank of Scout) (name) come forward at this time and please stand in front of our Troop's flag. (all participants move toward the flag. The Scout should be in front of the flag, the Scoutmaster and others behind the flag but still visible to the audience.) Troop Committee Chair: (Scout's Name), we have seen you grow physically from the time you became a member of this Troop on (date that Scout became a member of the Troop). We witnessed your progress from boy to man through our program. We are proud to have had you serve as a member and leader of this Troop and we would like to present you with a small token of our pride in you and your progress. May you wear it as you make your way through this world, remembering the good times you have had in this Troop and the great friends you have met while here. (Troop Committee Chair pins the small Universal emblem on the shirt of Scout. He salutes the Scout, and then shakes hands with him. The Troop Committee Chair stands back and the Commissioner steps forward.) Commissioner: (Scout's Name), your involvement in the Scouting program is noteworthy and your progress along the Scouting trail has been noticed by those outside your Troop. As you know, your Troop is one of several belonging to the Council, and we are proud to have been able to provide you with this great and valuable experience. You have learned as much as you could about this great land-its people, its past, present and your future within it. You participated with other Scouts, under leadership from others; and later, under your own leadership, to complete service and conservation projects to benefit others. Your citizenship in Scouting was only a subset of your citizenship as a member of this community, this state and this wonderful nation of ours. We will miss your enthusiasm and willingness to serve. On behalf of the Council, I take pride in presenting you this Certificate of Service. May you continue to assist others and "Be Prepared" for the rest of your life. (Commissioner presents opened certificate to Scout and reads the certificate. The stock certificate reads "The Boy Scouts of America takes pleasure in recognizing (space for name, Troop number and city and state) who has (four lines for "served honorably as a member of Troop (number), (city, state) from (starting date) to (date of his 18th birthday), his final day in which he could serve as a youth member.") the Date is the date of presentation. The line on the left is for the Council Scout Executive, with the person's name and title (Scout Executive, Council Executive) below. The line on the right is for the Council President or Commissioner, with the person's name and title (President, (name) Council, BSA or Commissioner, (name) Council), BSA ). (the certificate number is BSA #3714). After reading the certificate, he closes the cover and presents it to the Scout. He salutes the Scout, and then shakes the Scout's hand. Then the Commissioner moves back and the Scoutmaster comes forward. Scoutmaster: (Scout's Name), Anytime a Scout leaves my Troop, I feel a little sad for them and myself. Sad, because I too, remember the great times we have had together and will miss your company here. More importantly, I feel sad because I feel that perhaps I did not have enough time in order to further develop you along character lines. I hope that my personal example to you have given you ample opportunities to see the way I live and apply the principles of Scouting to my personal life. (The scout and Scoutmaster shake hands and the scout leaves the room, the scoutmaster and all in attendance watch the scout leave the room, close the door sharply for extra effect, everything should be silent, the sign could be used to maintain silence) Scoutmaster: It is indeed an honor to introduce the newest Assistant scoutmaster of Troop XXX. (The scout who left the room, re-enters with an ASM patch pinned to his shoulder)

Mary had a little lamb I'm sure you've heard before But did you know she passed her plate and had a little more? Mary had a little lamb But it met the fate for which it was bred The only time the lamb now goes to school Is between two slices of bread Mary had a little lamb She locked it in a closet And every time she opened the door She found another deposit

Actually I kinda like the tradition, a way letting the boys and adults know what is said next is important information and is to be listened to. If song loud enough and in a raucous manner, it may just tire out the youth enough to be quiet during the announcement long enough to get the information out. That then is a reason to have a song announcing the announcememts, having these words may detract from the purpose of singing, the kids giggling they just called an adult boring or a windbag. With adjusted lines, I think its a good idea

Yes

Or, you could take it that since the 10 Commandments and the Greek gods are featured that in the governments eyes they are all equal

Minerva? You mean Miss Minerva of Diver Dan fame?

I agree with you Beaver to a point. The ACLU does put out what it does on its websites, but I do not agree its enough. To me thats like Having either party, The Democrats or the Republicans saying we have a great plan for you and we do a lot for you, read about it on our website. Its the American way, if you have a great product, you either advertise or its not the publics fault if there is a misconception over the product. Now, another conundrum. Its pretty much all agreed by conservatives that liberals run the airwaves. That Broadcast and print mainstream media is the haven of liberals with only a few islands of conservatism. If that's true, why is it that the ACLU gets a bad rap in the Media as has been claimed? Why doesnt the broad left wing conspiracy of liberal media prop up the ACLU and show what good it does, the things that middle America would appreciate? Beaver, it may be true that most Americans want to be spoon fed their information and are lazy, you then can't expect them to do the reaearch for themselves. You may have to prime the pump a little. Its easy enough to say that the ACLU is misunderstood, but its not the publics job to correct the misconceptions. How many times does someone come up with an idea and you say I am not sure, convince me and then they do. The ACLU needs to convince more people of the good they do, unfortunately being right is not always enough

Packwife, I have a suggestion and it may take some time up front and you may need some help. Now that 9 pages of rules are written, be sure each one is enforced. This requires a knowledge of the rules. At the next committee meeting lay out all the transgressions and ask what the results will be? Betting the rules will quickly be forgotten

"The ACLU sued to have BOTH removed; the supreme court (which had no Jews on the court at that time) said the menorah wasn't a religious symbol." Gee, I think I heard that before somewhere

Well, as has been pointed out several times its not the ACLU that makes decisions, its the Courts On the "we report you decide" angle, its hard to decide if its not reported And while I would never want to allow facts to interfere with a good rant, on the subject of the Manger scene being removed and the Menorrah remaining, wasnt that the decision of a Judge? The ACLU wanted both removed and it was the Court that decided to remove only the manger? I am suer somebody will know

PS, Merlyn, and GB, maybe you can help me. First, I agree there is a reason to have the ACLU and they do good things for people who would otherwise have no recourse. I understand that sometimes they take on unpopular causes because the ACLU is about Civil Liberty issues and not the group whose Civil Liberties are being infringed. Given all that, I do think at times the ACLU is sometimes quite UnAmerican. OK, I said that as sorta kinda in a way flame bait. Why UnAmerican? Because they have very little spin doctoring going on. Almost every other huge corporation has some form of active public relations department beating their drums announcing all the good they do, why doesnt the ACLU? The press story that Venividi posted about the ACLU sticking up for the Christian prisioner to preach is an axample that the ACLU should be touting. The ACLU has to know how many people feel about them, and that much of the ill will towards the ACLU comes from a misunderstanding of the groups purpose, but I have seen very little from the ACLU rehabilitating its image. PS, you talk about the ACLU (wish there wa a way to abbreviate that )helping homeless children in Chicago, another issue that should be made public. The supporters of the ACLU shouldnt have to be the ones who educate others about the good the ACLU does, that should be the ACLU's job. And I know, such a media campaign would cost money, lots of it, but a 3 month media campaign about all the issues that the ACLU has been invovled in could change a lot of peoples perception of them. OK, I take the crack about the ACLU being UnAmerican, I just think there is a lot they could do to improve their image

You know, the BSA has 8 methods to reach the aims of scouting, and advancement is one of the 8. Its not the most important, its not the least important, its just one of the 8. Does the scout benefit from the adult association he receives, does he find a sense in belonging in the patrol he is in, does he like camping and outdoor activities, has he experienced personal growth? Remember the mission of the Boy Scouts is: The mission of the Boy Scouts of America is to prepare young people to make ethical and moral choices over their lifetimes by instilling in them the values of the Scout Oath and Law. Doesnt say thou shalt advance or die We had a scout in the troop, wasnt a big advancement freak at all but he loved to camp, backpack especially. He saw that the Council had a contingent going to Philmont and wanted to go. The requirements were 13 years old and first class. As he was 14 the issue was the latter rather than the former. Properly motivated he made first class and later aged out at that rank. And when asked about his experience in scouting he would say he loved camping and Philmont was the bestest thing he ever did. That is a great ambassador for scouting, not someone bounced from a troop because he didnt live up to an adults expectations. Edited part: BTW, the Troop By-Laws thing? I make a distinction between information sheets, such as where and when we meet, and contact phone numbers and who to call to contact a scout on an event. But thats information. When it comes to by-laws I think about who wants them and Judge Dredd remember him? "The Law? I am the Law" what is the motivation for these laws?(This message has been edited by OldGreyEagle)

You know if you live long enough, you get to see marvelous things. A Troop's "property" is really the property of the Chartering Organization and that has been verified many times here. I can't say a BSA Council never showed up with papers saying the equipment is theirs because who knows what people will do. I know the Girl Scout Program owns the equipment and folding units are to give back to their council equipment

My reaction to getting the condiments from fast food places is great, lets teach the scouts its ok to steal. But that may be a separate issue. The issue of where the patrol provisions comes from is intriguing. I know of no rule that says provisions need to be bought at a grocery store. I see no reason why the food couldnt be provided by the patrol's family, then again the idea of paying your own way should be part of the overall experience and if you have people grabbing mustard from MickeyD's to save money or space I dont want to be around for the conversation on how much this 1/3 jar of Smucker's grape jelly is worth. Why not have the boys investigate why there is so much food left at the end and what could be done to lessen it?

I have been told by them who says they know that the BSA office was once in New York City, then it moved to "suburban" New Jersey and then was moved to Irving, just outside the confines of DFW. The reason was the same for all the moves, price. They supposedly got a great deal to move to Texas and be more centrally located in the country for a heck of a lot less than being in New Jersey (or any East Coast location)

Panda ring for puns?