OldGreyEagle

As mentioned, this is adding to the requirements which may be NOT done no matter how well intended (Ok so I added the NOT) (This message has been edited by a staff member.)

I think you are thinking of Karl Marx who regarded religion as the opium of the masses. The complete quote is "Religious suffering is, at one and the same time, the expression of real suffering and a protest against real suffering. Religion is the sigh of the oppressed creature, the heart of a heartless world, and the soul of soulless conditions. It is the opium of the people." He had a few other ideas about government styles, a few of which have been tried(This message has been edited by OldGreyEagle)

SaintCad, its hard to compose a thoughtful and complete answer to someone who asks a quesition about a policy and then in the midst of the question starts to demean, ridicule and otherwise berate the policy. I already know you don't really want an answer you just want to pick a fight with forum members who agree with the policy. And I was the poster who said that sexuality has no place in Boy Scouts. I would react the same way to a scout boasting about sexual exploits with the SPLs sister as I would with the SPL. That BSA has no place for those types of shenanigans. IMO, The avowed homosexuality leader is banned because a large segment of the Chartering Organizations beleive that Homosexuality is a negative charactor trait and its Chartering Organizations that pretty much call the shots in the BSA (LDS/Catholic Church) and would take their ball and go home if gays were allowed (or at the very least not renew the charter of any units)

"I had half jokingly suggested a week or two ago that people should be restricted to one post in I&P for every 5 or 10 posts in other forums, but there is really no way to monitor that." Heck Beav, let me talk to my contact at NSA, they may have software for that...

I understand your vexation Dan, but I also understand the parents view as well. The first time I called our Venturing Crew President, Molly was a high school junior (she just graduated from Smith)and when I asked for Molly, her mother's voice froze the line from her house to my ear as to who wanted her? From that point on I always start with "This is Mr GreyEagle from the Crew" and then asked the whereabouts of the youth. Should it be this way? no, it shouldnt, but I guess I prefer a parent who demands to know what adult is caling their child to one who yells up the stairs "Hey, some guy wants to talk to you on the phone"

I have commented in the past, I travel quite a bit and have had occasion to listen to Sports Talk Radio all over the country. The basic format of Sports Talk Radio is actually quite simple, unless the team of the moment, whether its Football, Baseball, Basketball etc is utterly dominating and/or destroying all opponents then the Radio Host is leading a withering attack on the stars, coach, and owner. When you think about it, its a great formula because at anyone time only one team can be in first place so odds are the teams in your market always provide fodder for critiques. Its called "knowing your Demographics", if the Yankees arent destroying the Sawks, then there is heck to pay on the radio. And when the Yankees win, well heck they should have scored twice as many runs. You appeal to what people want to hear, that your team is either the model of perfection or its not and lets spend all day discussing what needs to be done. A fans dream... And oh yeah, are the sports radio hosts really true fans? Of course they are as long as the ratings hold... Then there is Political Talk Radio. What a format, the hosts talks to a select demographic telling them what they want to hear. Its a great formula, you can pick on anything you want as long as you are saying what people want to hear. That the way they think is correct and good and wholesome and the only "real" way to think. The business of Talk Radio is to make money, its not to diseminate ideas or spur intelligient debate and dialogue. Its more about monologues and how what I say is the way it is (or should be). A talk show host is a shill for the station, not a crusading agent of change.

Actually I asked Fred the same question when he first started posting here and I paraphase Heather #1 when I say, "because he can". His posting on Oliver North almost caused a love-in the likes of which I havent seen since the mid-60s

I used to be a BEAR, a good old BEAR, too. But now I'm finished BEARING I don't know what to do. I'm growing old and feable, and I can BEAR no more. So, I'm going to work my ticket if I can Da Minsi Bears "Oh Bother!"

use of the term "religious reich" is inflammatory and should not be used again unless the poster has conclusive proof the people being chacterized as such have concentration camps and are systematically murdering millions of people.

where are you located?

AArrrggghhhhhhh! This issue came up a few years back and I blew that one too! If the patrol's APL is going to camp, then its the APL's responsibility to fill in as Patrol Leader as has been commented. If neither PL or APL are going to camp, thats when having the boys going as a patrol electing a Summer Camp Patrol Leader would be a good idea. I think I have that right now (I hope)!

Lobster, as shellfish, is not kosher... you never saw the lobster and eggs Seinfeld?

If the regular patrol leader cannot make summer camp, why not have the boys who will make up that patrol elect their own patrol leader? Then you dont have issues about whether or not the boy will be accepted, he will be the boy's choice.

Please Please Pullleeeezzeee, no Sewing merit badges, that sounds so girlie and wussy, now, a Tailoring merit badge, that sounds macho (BTW my son never played with dolls, he had quite a few "action figures" but nary a doll in sight)

Wasnt he the guy who lied to Congress under oath because he "knew" he was right?

Lisabob, What is the process for new cross overs in your Troop? Perhaps a better question would be, is there a process? The established leadership wants the new parents to understand that Boy Scouts isnt Cub Scouts, how is that distinction made? How are the parents educated to the differences and when does this education occur? Is there interaction with the Pack throughout the year? Or on crossover night are the parents thrown a lot of literature, troop by-laws and policies and a "see you next meeting night" at which time they are expected to be up to snuff on every intricacy of the program? This is the troop that has campouts so packed with activities that advancement items cant be checked off, apparently they are also so busy they cant change troop procedure to adopt to a new group either. Just what do they have time for? And before the hoots start, I dont mean change the BSA program but perhaps changing troop program to include new scout interest wouldnt be bad. If the new cross overs would rather cycle than hike, would doing a few bike hikes be bad? If they like the Civil war, would visiting a few battlefields be feasible?. As alluded, each troop has a personality and not all boys will like the personality of a particular troop. Likewise however a troop that is vigorous and dynamic is able to change its program to match its members interests

If Crews were all about the "outdoors" then BSA wouldn't have come up with Bronze Awards for Religious Life, and Sports and Arts and Hobbies. They would not have created the Quest and Trust Awards to be earned as well as the Ranger. Your DE is wrong (what a shocker!) What in the Venture Oath says it must be done outdoors? As a Venturer, I promise to do my duty to God and help strengthen America, to help others, and to seek truth, fairness, and adventure in our world. Adventure is where you find it, either in the Outdoors or in being a member of a Ham Radio Crew and talking to people in India and the Ukraine. In the Venturing Code nothing implies you must be outdoors to follow it. As a Venturer, I believe that America's strength lies in our trust in God and in the courage, strength, and traditions of our people. I will, therefore, be faithful in my religious duties and will maintain a personal sense of honor in my own life. I will treasure my American heritage and will do all I can to preserve and enrich it. I will recognize the dignity and worth of all humanity and will use fair play and goodwill in my daily life. I will acquire the Venturing attitude that seeks truth in all things and adventure on the frontiers of our changing world. In short, your DE is wrong and you are right

Tequila!

As an undercover Insignia Placement Enforcement Officer, top grade I am aghast you would even consider such hideous desecration of the uniform. Such willfull mutilation is a violation of the BSA uniform code as specified in the Scoutmaster's Handbook page, umm umm umm, its mentioned as prohibited in the Uniform Inspection Sheet in the third column under the heading, umm, umm, umm, I know its in the Patrol Leader Handbook under the heading, umm umm umm. I know I have a reference somewhere, you have no idea how hard it is to look up uniform references with one hand while the other hand is holding a stodgy old woodbadger with a dull silver beaver against the wall. Be back when I find it...

Check out the BSA Publication "Advancement Commitee, Policies and Procedures" publication number 33088D, I beleive this is the most recent but I could be wrong. It has a section titled "Advancement for Youth Members with Special Needs" and should be found at your Scout store for $3.95 There is also the BSA Publication "A Guide to Working with Scouts with Disabilities" also at the Scout store for $1.95 Either or both would be good resources for a unit with Special Needs/Handicapped youth (This message has been edited by OldGreyEagle)

There is a difference between being a skilled outdoorsman and a skilled scouter. I will type that again slower for those of you who dont read fast. There is a difference between a skilled outdoorsman and a skilled scouter. A skilled outdoorsman can brew coffee, make scrabbled eggs and biscuits in record time, but a skilled scouter allows his scouts, even the younger ones, to struggle through and learn how to cook even if it means burnt offerings are the dish du jour. The goal of a campout isnt supposed to be about how many miles were hiked, or whitewater rapids ran or even the making of the best blueberry cobbler ever (though it helps), its the strengthening of charactor, the development of interpersonal skills through interactions of the patrol and foundation of self-confidence that is paramount. Setting up boys to be disappointed becasue of slow advancement is as bad or worse than rushing them through. If the boys have studied and are ready, to make them wait because the troop has no time for them tells me the troop has no time for the boy at all and that is ludicrous

While advancement is not the goal of boy scouting, it is one of the methods and while some don't regard the goal of First Class First year as realistic, its not entirely unscoutlike to afford boys the opportunity to advance as well. Way back in the spider webbed recess of my memory I seem to remember that a Patrol Leaders duties included representing the group (in this case the patrol) and he was to have a handle on what his patrol members needed for advancement and push to have these items on either a meeting or outing agenda. Then again, Lisabob, there is nothing against having a patrol outing which has as its express purpose fulfilling advancement items. The patrol needs to follow the requirements of a patrol outing of course.

This past week end was it for this year, they plan another in a few years and I will post info then

How do we reconcile that all boy scout actvities are open to adults when being registered is a requirement for summer camp or some other activity? Now, I realize some state laws may require troop registration for adults to stay overnight in a camp and if so, its the state law that is restricting the parents, not the BSA.

Ah, flag retirement ceremonies, sometimes I think discussions about these types of ceremonies gets more heated than any dicussion of the three "G"s. My son's Eagle project invovled collecting American flags that were no longer fit for display and replacing American flags at Veterans gravesites. From his research, I remember thinking as many ways are there are to retire a flag, as long as its done with dignity and respect, it can't be wrong. He ended up with 614 flags to retire, 400 or so were the smaller ones from the Cemetaries. Each of the larger flags had twine tied to each corner about 6 feet in length. The largest flags (one from a Perkins) were folded in the traditional manner. The smaller flags were bundled into groups of 50 the edges and the twine tied to the bunch. A fire was built between 2 logs 8 feet long and 4 feet apart. In the center of the fire was placed a large "grill", heavy steel mesh on with pipes for legs. The flags with twine on the 4 corners were brough over the flames and then gently lowered. They burst into flames before actually contacting the flames. The large flags, bigger than the fire, were placed on the grill and the bundles of flags were placed over the grill and held there until the twine burned through. During this time assembled scouts from various bands played patriotic music followed by poems, readings and more music. From start to finish the ceremony lasted 50 minutes.