OldGreyEagle

Congrats on getting your beads, have no idea on your question

whats the school's role in this? The project is to help a school, what are they doing to fund the project or is this a "fine we will take the results if we dont have to pay anything for it?" project? I cant see giving troop funds to assist a scout in an Eagle project, it just feels wrong ( to me that is)

Desperate times call for desperate measures and I beleive this is a desperate time. I echo what scoutldr said about troop activities, no moore until the lost equipment is accounted for. Certainly, the Quartermasters shall not be signed off on their position of responsibility since none was shown and I may extend that to the SPL as well if he has known about the tent issue. Its their Troop, its their equipment and its their problem to resolve although you may have to supply the motivation.

Beaver, I am glad you were able to tell your potential abuser no, I was not able and have lived with those memories ever since. In your account, there is a church leader, known to be gay, who is allowed private one on one access to young men? And no one said a word to either the young men or the police or the church hierarchy? How is that similar to having a gay adult in a troop? As a BSA unit if all the Youth Protection Principles are adhered to, there should be no problems. I understand your thoughts about the abused Timmy facing the counseler for the first time, but rather than making Scoutmaster Bruce, gay, why not just a pedophile? How do you explain to Timmy that even though Scoutmaster Bruce is married, has 3 kids and is known as a great guy, he is also a pedophile?. And the scenario of the abused scout molested by a married man is by far the most common one I have read about. I liek the idea of the unit option, that the Chartering Organizations are responsible for selecting adult leadership. I have a question for the legal minds of the forum, could the Chartering Organization agreement be written in a way to take liability off the BSA and ont he CO if a wayward leader is accused?

First, its not against the "rules" as there is not any prohibition that I know of in the "rules" that says a Troop can't fund or help fund an Eagle Project, but I do think that its against the rules of Good Sense and Judgement. Will this start funding of future projects? What if an Eagle of the past shows up with receipts of $714.19 fropm his project, are you going to pay him? How and where is the line drawn? The completion of the Eagle Leadership Project is up to the scout and the organization for whom the project benefits, why inject the Troop in where it doenst belong?

...And a tip o'the hat to you and yours Guv'ner

WHat does "john" want to do?

When the Crew got started, the members said they wanted to have local events, so we, the adult support, said what do you want to do? From that came the 2002 Crew Rendezvous for Venturers. It wasnt sponsored by Council, it was sponsored by the Crew. That was in May, then that August another COuncil Crew sponsored a Cardboard Boat Regatta (yes, cardboard floats, you can look it up). From these events a COuncil Venturing Youth Committee sprang up with the Crew member most responsible for organizing the Rendezvous as the president. A few years later she was the Northeast Regional Venturing President and today, after graduation she is a DE in the COuncil. Talk about being careful for what you wish... If you want District/Council activities, dont wait, sponsor them yourselves. They don't HAVE to be like Camporees or anything else like the Boy Scout events you have seen, its Venturing, write your own book start new traditions, Do all the events at night, have swing/line dancing classes. Have session on how to apply to collge or apply for money. Do what the youth will do, and watch, there may be something to this program at that.

Yet as a heterosexual male I am able to take the Co-ed Crew backpacking and no one thinks anything of it. (done of course with at least one female over 21 on the trip and all YP principles followed)

At what point does the state have a right to intercede on behalf of its citizens even when its over the wishes of those citizens? I had thought I was taught that the state has a right to abridge the rights of the individual when the welfare of the masses were at stake. (otherwise known as the Spockanian Treatise, "The Needs of the Many Outweigh the Needs of the Few") In Pennsylvania the state decided it did not have a right to inflict its will (to wear a helmet) on motorcycle riders in what is now known as the Roethlisberger Riddle, otherwise known as the "what were they thinking?" condundrum. In PA we don't have a law saying that a motorcycle rider must wear a helmet, but we do have a law that says you may only purchase "packaged" wine and spirits at "state stores" and beer by the case at a "beer distributor". Ostensibly this is done for safety reasons although I am not sure if the alcohol related deaths per 100,000 drivers are lower on Pennsylvania roads versus a state which does not have an arcane alcohol retail system. I would like to see if Motorcycle deaths are greater per 100,00 riders in Pennsylvania versus a state that does require a helmet and see what safety experts say. In some states, parental rights could be viewed as under assualt. When Britney Spears (sic!) was ticketed for not having her child properly secured in her vehicle, the headlines I saw were more of a nature questioning Mrs Federline's fitness as a parent rather than questioning why the state cared what a parent did with their own child anyway? If a female, aged 15 may legally marry and that the age of consent to marry may legally be as low as 12 as mentioned in the article, then how long before the age at which or below constitutes "statutory rape" is challenged and reversed?

Does that make poly anna being married to two or more women with the same first name?

I am not sure why this quesiton would come up at the scoutmaster level, has the Librarian talked to the scout and then referred the matter to the Senior Patrol Leader who after not having any success came to you with the issue? I wouldnt wait until "a scoutmaster's conference" for rank, I would hold a specific "scoutmaster conference" on the issue of the troop's property and ask the scout what points of the scout law relate to the issue at hand after the SPL told me about the issue.

Well, actually, if we want to go with trends, All of the Boy Scout leaders accused of sexual abuse that I have read about on this forum have all been men considered by their community (or so it would seem based on the stories) to be heterosexual "normal" guys. Married, with children and upstanding citizens. I have yet to read about a scout leader who after charges of abuse are made is found to have been living a "double life", scoutmaster on one side and gay on the other. Therefore, perhaps married straight men should be banned as leaders, or at the very least forced to adhere to strict youth protection guidelines. You know like always having two adults over 21 on every trip, no adult alone with a scout, the only adult who can sleep in a tent with a boy is his parent, all meetings conducted in view of others, that sort of thing.(This message has been edited by OldGreyEagle)

Gee bevah, I would think the best course of action here is to support the scoutmaster, after all he is the one who best knows the scout and is the volunteer charged with the program

I would establish a date in the future, say the packs recharter date where they either come up with a cubmaster or the members tranfer to your Pack. Set that as the expectation with the packs family and your disitrict and move forward.

FogHat - Slowride Edgar Winter Group - Frankenstein

http://articles.news.aol.com/news/article.adp?id=20060615140909990026&ncid=NWS00010000000001 Colorado Court Rules Girls Can Marry at 15 Judges Say Law Permits Even Younger Brides and Grooms By JON SARCHE, AP APColorado Senate President Joan Fitz-Gerald said she was appalled by the ruling. "That's a child. You're taking advantage of an undeveloped person," she said. DENVER (June 15) - A 15-year-old girl can enter into a common-law marriage in Colorado, and younger girls and boys possibly can, too, a state appeals court ruled Thursday. While the three-judge panel stopped short of setting a specific minimum age for such marriages, it said they could be legal for girls at 12 and boys at 14 under English common law, which Colorado recognizes. Senate President Joan Fitz-Gerald said she was appalled by the ruling and said lawmakers need to look at the issue next year when the Legislature reconvenes. "That's a child. You're taking advantage of an undeveloped person, putting them in a situation that's for life. That's something we need to take a look at," the Democrat said. The ruling overturned a lower-court judge's decision that a girl, now older than 18, was too young to marry at 15. The panel said there was no clear legislative or statutory guidance on common-law marriages, and that Colorado courts have not determined an age of consent. For traditional ceremonial marriage, Colorado law sets the minimum age at 18, or 16 with parental or judicial approval. Colorado is one of 10 states, plus the District of Columbia, that recognize common-law marriage, which is based on English law dating back hundreds of years. "It appears that Colorado has adopted the common-law age of consent for marriage as 14 for a male and 12 for a female, which existed under English common law," the ruling said. "Nevertheless, we need only hold here that a 15-year-old female may enter into a valid common-law marriage." The appeal was filed by Willis Rouse, 38, who is serving time for escape and a parole violation. He argued that he and the girl began living together in April 2002 and applied for a marriage license a year later. The girl had become legally independent by then, but her mother also consented to the marriage and accompanied the girl and Rouse to obtain a license, the ruling said. A judge invalidated the marriage, saying anybody under age 16 needed judicial approval for either common-law or ceremonial marriage. While Thursday's ruling found that the girl was old enough to marry, it did not conclude whether she and Rouse have a valid marriage. The court sent the case back to the trial judge to make that determination. (This message has been edited by OldGreyEagle)

Immanuel Kant's Critique of Pure reason

Beavah, God Love ya! I keep trying to leave this thread but you keep pullin' me back in I want to explore this premise that you seem to have that the scoutmaster gets to skirt BSA policy as long as he has the good of the program at heart or something like that. Like I have said before I dont think I understand what you are trying to say. Lets say a scoutmaster is very politically active and quite active in the scouts as well. And he takes a dim view of what he perceives are policies of Globalization so he decides that to spare his scouts such nonsense, he will just give out the Citizenship in the World merit badge when a scout reaches 20 merit badges so the scout will get Eagle, he just doesnt have to do anything to get it. Of course he is a registered Merit badge counselor. Otherwise, he is a great guy, beloved by the Troop and community, can he do this or should someone speak up? ANother scoutmaster a few towns over was quite shaken by 9/11. He feels in todays world everyone must be disaster prepared. He requires all his scouts to get the Emergency Prep merit badge before he will give them a Scoutmaster Conference for Star. Should he be able to do this?

There will always be discord, even when there are specific rules spelled out in the G2SS, units will say, well this is a "family trip" or we will go as "just friends". Other times it may be a difference of just what is, is. It would help if BSA was more specific on a lot of topics, but even if they were, we would still have plenty to tell each other how wrong the other was.

I woke with a start last night, I had gone to sleep ruminating over in my mind what BSA could do. And I have it, work with me here as I think the idea may need some fleshing out. First off, lets ditch the old program, wait we cant do that, too much value, lets keep the Boy Scout program and then venture out into something competely new. Lets have BSA start a new program, Co-ed this time, a program that appeals to older youth (I love writing that, older youth) lets say 14 to 21. We will lay off the uniform requirement and not require one or allow the individual units themselves to come up with their own uniforms. Because so many youth arent as excited as the outdoors as there once once, the outdoors wont be a focal point for the program. Instead we could have a differnt groupings of interest. We would keep the Outdoors, but also have Sports, Arts, Hobbies and maybe even a religious interest grouping. Members of the program could work in any of these areas. ANybody think such a program would fly?

"Sure they can adopt but if same sex couples dominate in numbers, the society will die out!" Gee, if same sex couple dominate then I guess they wouldn't be an aberration, at least not to that society

I previoulsy posted this, but this may be more apporiate a thread then the original: I have commented in the past, I travel quite a bit and have had occasion to listen to Sports Talk Radio all over the country. The basic format of Sports Talk Radio is actually quite simple, unless the team of the moment, whether its Football, Baseball, Basketball etc is utterly dominating and/or destroying all opponents then the Radio Host is leading a withering attack on the stars, coach, and owner. When you think about it, its a great formula because at anyone time only one team can be in first place so odds are the teams in your market always provide fodder for critiques. Its called "knowing your Demographics", if the Yankees arent destroying the Sawks, then there is heck to pay on the radio. And when the Yankees win, well heck they should have scored twice as many runs. You appeal to what people want to hear, that your team is either the model of perfection or its not and lets spend all day discussing what needs to be done. A fans dream... And oh yeah, are the sports radio hosts really true fans? Of course they are as long as the ratings hold... Then there is Political Talk Radio. What a format, the hosts talks to a select demographic telling them what they want to hear. Its a great formula, you can pick on anything you want as long as you are saying what people want to hear. That the way they think is correct and good and wholesome and the only "real" way to think. The business of Talk Radio is to make money, its not to diseminate ideas or spur intelligient debate and dialogue. Its more about monologues and how what I say is the way it is (or should be). A talk show host is a shill for the station, not a crusading agent of change.

Well, some say my humor runs to the dark side, almost Black in nature while others say that at times I can be downright Grizzly. You could say I am Panda-ing to a certain demographic here which is a Polar opposite to how I normally post. I need to interject some political content here in regards to the Kennedy family, when it comes to Teddy bear in mind he has gone through a lot.

I have to say this has been beary beary beary beary nice