OldGreyEagle

Where did you get such an idiotic idea... Dont you answer me back when I am talking to you

Shut your mouth and eat your supper Will you look at that dirt on the back of your neck

In the District I serve there are about 23 troops, fall camporees are run by troops with at times smaller troops (8-10 boys)joining up with other smaller units to run them. The OA Chapter takes a regular turn as well

OK Ed, there have been many subtle comments about this and a few not so subtle, but to be sure here goes: Back off on the BrianBuf bashing. You may not agree with his premise, his web site or his ticket, we all understand that. What I dont understand is why you fee it necessary to fill up threads with your badgering. If you want to continue playing tit for tat with him, do it via private messaging. Brian, you would do well to keep on your topics and not comment on the tone of the responses as well

Why Eamonn, being a transplanted midwesterner when I moved to eastern PA, I soon learned Wa Wa was east coast speak for 7-11 or White Hen Pantry (Midwest humor) Anyway, there are plenty of Wa Wa's in eastern PA and NJ. On one camp out the catch phrase was "Smokin' Joe" though no one ever did explain what it meant and why repeating it was so funny. Another one it was "holla back", again no explanation nor did those using it know what it meant. Actually no matter. The main idea is the kids were out and having a good time and making memories and that has to be worth something

I love the esoteric data one receives from the internet, where I went to school that was known as a "hinder binder" the victim was bounced up and down supported soley on his underwear until the waistband ripped off the cloth. This trophy was then brandished about while a great celebration and frivolity was had by all (minus one of course) From a scouting perspective the cubs now know such a thing is permissable in scouts and may either fear receiving one some day while others are planning their first use of this knowledge. I can see it now in the 4th grade class. "Boys, where did you ever get the notion to do that to Bobby?" "Oh Teach, thats just a wedgie, Mr Moron our cubmaster showed us all about them at summer camp"

Bobby, I told you I didnt want you climbing any trees, and if you fall out of that one and break your leg don't come running to me! Bobby, if you kill yourself on that minibike, you'll be grounded for life!

OK, Ok, Ok, Ok. so the republican party has been hijacked by the religious right and the democratic party has been hijacked by the left wing liberal wackos who want to blame America First, (ok, using hyperbole to make a point) So, who speaks for us pretty much normal ok folks?

You would prefer a more sanguine approach?

Eomonn by George, I think you may have stumbled on something. An Oenology merit badge! That will get the masses trampling to the doors!

In the District I serve thats up to the MB Counselor, and usually its nights camping since becommming a scout

An organization that doesnt require its adults leaders to be trained would require that boys be trained? And evrey six months? What would the troop whose SPL has a 12 month term do? Repeat the same training because its required? Would love to see the ciation on this one. Then of course I am going to go look myself, more for comment that was misconstrued to the requirement however

More icons come to mind, remember "Mr Clean" when he was almost a double to Yul Brynners' "the King and I" personna Then again in the classic "Star Trek" movie The Wrath of Khan we have the following exchange between mother and son: David Marcus: Remember that overgrown Boy Scout you used to hang around with? That's excatly the kind of guy... Carol Marcus: Listen, kiddo, Jim Kirk was *many* things, but he was *never* a Boy Scout! To a degree Boy Scouts itself is an icon. When you are called a Boy Scout, everyone knows what it means, what attributes it implies. Such an appellation may be complementary or seen as an insult. Depends on who is saying it and how its being used.

Speaking if icons, wasnt this the heart of a Dick Van Dyke show Christmas Show where Rob was conducting the orchestra? try http://www.songsforteaching.com/iamafinemusician.htm(This message has been edited by OldGreyEagle)

"You got me to thinking though. If Scouting is supposed to be a boy lead movement, why don't boys have control over the national organization and program? With adult mentor-ship of course." To a degree there is such a program in Venturing. Each region has a president who is a youth in the program who serves for a year and then the national president is chosen from one of those four youths. At this time the choice is still adult driven, but at least youth participants are present at the regional and national level. (This message has been edited by a staff member.)

Never underestimate the power of TV Land, after all what is more iconic than a sister blurting out "Marcia, Marcia, Marcia" even if she isnt sporting an ill fitting wig and her sisters' name is actually Louise?

isnt Donald Rumsfeld also an Eagle Scout? Just providing another point of view

Icons to me are somehting that invade our culture and become synonymous with other words in everyday conversation. You can have a real cruel boss, so if you say your boss is acting like "Darth Vader", everyone knows what you mean, even those who have never watched Star Wars, the charactor (Icon) transcends the genre. Other movie related icons may be Jason, (Friday the 13th Movies) or Freddy (Nightmare on Elm Street)or even James Bond. Always thought James Bond was in some ways a great role model. Being able to fabricate a welding torch from a pen and a presntation laser while moderating a discussion on obscure Russian Literature in Mandarin Chinese has a certain je ne sais quoi that spells cool to me. Unfortunately James Bond exhibits other behavioral atributes that are decidedly unscoutlike so there wont be any 007 merit badges anytime soon. (007? Now there is an icon) Popular culture resonates with icons, the Fonz's leather jacket, the comb he never had to use and his library card, all icons. The hair cut Jennifer Anniston sported in "Friends" became known as "the Rachel" even though it looked decidedly "Veronica Lake" to me. For that matter, Watergate is an icon. Just about any scandal is raised in importance when it merits a "...gate", Travelgate for one and many others that escape me right now. The use of icons can be tricky as the original meaning and the accepted pop culture designation can be polar opposites. Many a fond youthful memory is founded in the Magic Kingdom, on Space Mountain, Epcot Center and the Disney Corporation has won several awards and produced countless videos on acheiving excellence in the work place yet how many of us want the BSA to turn into a Mickey Mouse organization? Messing with icons can become an emotional issue and I wouldn't want anyone to go postal (another icon of our era)but change occurs constantly. When I was a Cub, my rank progression included Bobcat, Lion, Wolf, Bear and Webelos. Webelos, the acronym for "we be loyal scouts" became "we be lousy scouts". Come to think of it, how cutting edge of the BSA to be in the early 60's on the formation of ebonics with the use of "we be ...". I was going to list the Cub ranks in progression, but while I know the order has changed, I dont know what it was or what it is now. In the 70's the flat envelope "field" hat was replaced by the red berets (Red berets, that was a cool headgear, IMHO)and it gave us two icons, the flat hat and the red beret, each symbolizing a particular point of view, traditional versus modern. So, when one looks at icons there is much to consider, which icons will last and which will be as important as the name of Paris Hilton's dog? or fiancee for that matter?

The beav makes a good point, while I admire the passion being shown, not such the days of WHEELER have we seen such comments and perhaps we could reign it in a bit

I agree that it seems we don't celebrate our sucessess enough, but we do need to question our losses as well. The numbers are down, whether they are down due to Councils correcting inflated numbers or not, the numbers are down and if you are in an area where numbers are not down, that's great and continued sucess to you. There are questions we need to ask, are we relevant? Is our message reaching its intended audience? I think the audience is the participants and want to fill their ears with stories of great adventures, others say that the best recruiting is to target the moms, one of the great assets of the forum is getting differing opinions. There probably isnt one magic silver bullet that will cure the program, but several little steps along the way. BrianBuf, I have to say I was suspicious of your intentions when you first posted. We have had "trolls" ( I think thats the right term). This site has been set upon by posters who said they wanted to help scouting and then posted they were doing a psych experiment and the forum had showed what complete boobs we are were or something like that so some of the more suspicious members may not trust a whole lot at first. Next, when you say that scouting is in trouble and to see your website to get your views, it very much comes across that its as if you see yourself as the only one who knows this information and all would be better if everyone else would just adapt your point of view. Now, this may not be your intention at all, but when you present a group of strong willed ( as this forum constantly proves)people with opinions on topics they all hold very close, you will get reaction and just a little kick back, perhaps. The overall discussion is good. What can be done to get more youth involved, certainly this type of discussion can only be good and I hope members and lurkers all get some benefit from the posts. I have to wonder about the final disposition however. What will happen to all these thoughts? Its the current hot topic, but in a few weeks, if not days someone will post a God/Gay or other legal story in the Politics section or people will tank out on wanting to comment on this subject and the forum will move on. What is the expected outcome? How will scouting be advanced by the posts? Here and in other forums? Getting people to think is great, getting people to share their thoughts is great, having people come together to effect change, now there is something

There are Nuns Nuns Nuns Playing with the guns... There are Vultures, Vultures, Vultures Getting down with popular culture... There are Youths, Youths, Youths Seeking timeless Truths

Watch what you say, after all, the Cisco Kid was a friend of mine... There are Pros, Pros, Pros, Counting on all the dough There are Pros, Pros, Pros, Counting on all the dough at the Quartermaster's store. My eyes are dim, I can not see. I have not brought my specks with me. I HAVE NOT brought my specks with me.........

When Cisco was around, did he also bring Pancho?

There are Turtles, turtles, turtles Wearing Rubber Girdles at the Quartermaster's store. My eyes are dim, I can not see. I have not brought my specks with me. I HAVE NOT brought my specks with me......... (Wonder how many of the scouts moms ever wore a girdle?) BTW There are bears, bears, bears being a genius everywhere at the Quartermaster's store. My eyes are dim, I can not see. I have not brought my specks with me. I HAVE NOT brought my specks with me.........

there is lard, lard, lard they sell it by the yard at the Quartermaster's store. My eyes are dim, I can not see. I have not brought my specks with me. I HAVE NOT brought my specks with me......... (Wonder when the scouts mothers bought any lard around here, this updating thing may make some sense)