OldGreyEagle

In the troop I serve reorganization takes place like this: The boys are told where the patrol "areas" are in the hall. Then the boys assemble in the different areas with the boys they want to be with, they elect a patrol leader, come up with a name, cheer, etc. The PLC had criteria for how many Eagles, Life, Star could/had to be in a patrol but that folded quickly. The boys go where they want, why argue with that?

Ya know, if other private organizations not connected with the school system are getting their flyers distributed, it may be time to call your local ACLU and get them working for you and I am sure merlyn would agree. (I think)

I have such a tie, the original box as well. Its green material, rather plain in style and narrow as would you expect ties of that vintage to be. It comes complete with the BSA logo on the little cloth thingie on the backside of the tie

Was on a winter cabin event. It was cold, the snow deep and a great time was being had by all. One scout decided to sit up close to the fire to dry his boots off and before long the soles of the boots were steaming, as the boy drew his legs back from the fire, the soles dropped off the boots. The boy grabbed the soles, shoved them back on the boots and backed away from the fire. Those boots recovered and were seen many more times. Then again about 8 years ago a boy arrived on a winter campout with brand new nylon ski pants. They were waterproof and abrasion resistant. At the campfire he was sitting close to the fire and all of a sudden it was noticed that Bobby didnt have black pants anymore, they were white. The black nylon (or whatever) melted off in a flash. The boy was fine, but a little shaken. Everyone with synthetic pants took a decided step back.

The adult association thing (common to both Venturing and Boy Scouts)is always a tight rope, too much "association" and the troop can be adult lead then again its a bit much to expect the newly elected SPL to maintain control over the whole troop. It can be done, but I am not sure the "average" scout can do it. So, the adults in the troop work to be sure the boys know how to lead and that is the "art" of scoutmastering. All of this assumes of course (I know I know) that the boys want the troop to be boy lead and want to lead. If you have an SPL who doesnt want to do it, you can try a few times to explain how its done. We can set expectations and then if they are not met or no effort is shown, the SPL can be "fired" and some one who wants the job installed. Its the last resort of course, and should happen only if its the last option, but it should be available. Meetings "have" to be planned by the PLC with the thought, is this a meeting I would want to come to?

Good stuff so far, another consideratin is that a Boy Scout troop, well actually Boy Scouts, has the Outdoors as a method. In Venturing there are 5 distinct areas. Sea Scouts, Religious Life, Arts and Hobbies, Sports and Outdoors. Advancement as is known in the Boy Scout program does not exist. Advancement is not a method of Venturing. Each of the areas have requirements to earn a "Bronze" in that area and there are recognitions above the Bronze such as Ranger in Outdoors, Trust in Religious Life and Quest in Sports. After earning a Bronze, the Venturer may earn a Gold and then Silver (Girl Scouts love this as many have already earned SIlver and Gold awards). However, as much as these recognitions may develop the Venturer, advancement is not a method of Venturing. Boy Scouts Uses these Methods Patrol Method Adult Association Leadership Scouting Ideals Outdoors Advancement Personal Growth Uniform Venturing Uses these Methods Group Activities Adult Association Leadership Scouting Ideals High Adventure Recognition Teaching Others Uniform optional They are mighty similar, then again, there are huge differences in approaches. If someone tells you that Venturing is so much better than Boy Scouts because they have girls and can shoot .357 magnums, they are missing the whole point. A Cub Pack has a Cubmaster as its top adult leader, a Boy Scout Troop has a Scoutmaster as its top adult leader, a Venturing Crew has an Advisor as its top adult leader as there is no Master over the Crew. There is a President, not an SPL, there are Vice-Presidents of Administration and of Program rather than ASPLs and then a secretary and treasurer, all elected by the Crew. The program is dependent on the youth. You could have an Outdoor crew over the years change to Religious Life as its membership shifts, thats ok. In Boy Scouts its really tought to advance to far without camping but the Arts and Hobbies, Relgious Life and Sports areas dont require any camping. I hesitate to comment on Sea Scouts and camping as I may need a ride on a boat some day. And there is tremoundous confusion over what this all means. I use as an example and I apologize ahead of time if I offend anyone, especially Beavah because of what I am about to say. as I was reading this thread and the one that caused this thread (I think) I saw that Beavah made the following observations about Venturing: I think dat's partly because Venturers really don't have a clue yet about their own program, eh? Lisa'bob has a good point when she calls 'em idiosyncratic. Venturin' is a bit of a mishmash, eh? It's hard to tell anyone outside what the program focus is exactly Then he finishes by saying: But a full handed-salute to yeh for tryin' to educate. I've been a commish for two crews and an AA, and I still am in need of educatin'. So why do we have a very dedicated scouter being a Commissioner of two crews and an Associate Advisor of another if he acknowledges he is need of an education? I respect Beavah although I dont always agree with him but I do get the sense he is a youth first kind of guy. If he doesnt get the Program, what needs to be fixed so he will? And what of those with less zest for the program than Beavah, how do we educate them? Then again Venturing is 8 years old. I wonder in the 1910's how many troops folded and sprang up and folded as the public learned about Boy Scouts and what it was and how much it took to run a troop and if Venturing is following the same path. In a thread I didnt understand a concern a fellow poster had with the age ranges because its an issue I havent faced, is Venturing so new it needs seasoning so we can all appreciate its aspects?

Ok, again I dont see the big deal. They go on events, they have input to the program, they can go and do whatever the crew allows, they can mentor crew members. Even in a fraternity/sorority the members eventually graduate (even Bluto did) in a Venture crew its age defined, not academic status defined. Then again, most of our crew youth who aged out wanted to be adults to help with leadership roles so I may be in an unusual situtation.

I may not be understanding the issue with over 21 college students, they become an associate advisor or a committee member, they dont have to leave the crew, their role changes

Heck Eamonn you should have said something you were only 70 miles or so, they had the Celtic Festival going on and perhaps we could have taken in the Caber tossing or border collie competition. At the very least we could have sampled some of the non scouting aproved beverages unless the Quarter Deck was around in which case it would have been a lusty mug o' Birch Beer. Now, see if you would have been there on friday, we could have seen the Haggis eating contest http://www.celticculturalalliance.org/

Jamboree On the Internet http://www.scouting.org/international/22-883.html

Announce the tie to the troop, have both youth explain why they want to be SPL and have a revote

Lenni Lenape Links http://www.delawaretribeofindians.nsn.us/ http://www.native-languages.org/lenape.htm http://www.nanticoke-lenape.org/ http://www.anthro4n6.net/lenape/ Clothing http://greyowlcrafts.com/index.htm http://www.nativeamericandanceoutfits.bizhosting.com/

May I submit that doing his duty to God and being a member of a Church are two different issue? In the council where I live parents may become the religious "reccomendation" and state that the scout lives his life according to the family beliefs.

With all due respect, I beleive the exchange was between Robert Redford and Brad Pitt in the 2001 release Spy Game

Tough situation and an eloquent write-up. Have him appeal the decision through the District, Council and National if need be. I would love to see how this turns out.

I guess there are two issues here. The first is the Cubmaster and the CIT and what does that mean. Abuse? Hazing? Sexual predatation? I think no in every case, an adult with a svere lapse of judgement? yes. It doesnt matter the adult and youth's relationship outside of scouting. Say there is another youth and adult. They are neighbors and have gotten used to calling each other very unsavory names. The parents don't mind, actually they join in, its a neighborhood tradition to trash talk. Thats fine, but in scouts they can't call each other a pile of walking dog s*** no matter how innocent it is. The biggest issue is the youth who watched the episode. What are their impressions of scouting? How much "fun" did they have, what behavior will they take away from the event? To me the example is much more an issue

I am 20 miles from the New Jersey border, doesnt look like we are close, you are actually closer to Eamonn, he may be commenting soon. If you send me via private message your email address, I can email you a power point presentation I have on Venturing. It has some older data on it but alot you could use. BAck in 1998 my son and I were attracted to Venturing because it was something unusual and different and didnt have the same rules as Boy Scouts. At the same time the girls of the church that sponsors our Troop got tired of seeing the troop in the parking lot in sunday and getting told we just got back from 2 days on the AT, or Getysburg, Antietam or someother place. They wanted to play as well and the Girl Scout Troop they were with wasnt doing it for them. Out of that group and several scouts the Crew was born. Originally it had 4 Girl Scout Gold Recipients and a Silver as well as 6 Eagles. I can say one of our young ladies ended up being the Northeast Region Venturing President and today she is employed by the COuncil as a DE (its tough when they turn to the Dark Side) Our Crew is quite ecletic in nature, we say we are a High Adventure Crew although 3 of the bronzes earned in the Crew are in Youth Ministry. The Crew has a tradition of doing a week long Habitat for Humanity trip each summer for the past 5. I like to say we are a mediocre adventure crew, we climb, rapel and do white water but draw the line at polar bear swims in January and downhill skiing in July. We do what the youth want. We have a developed presentation at the local Community College's Gourmet Restaurant run by the food service students on Etiquiette. After all those years of being told not to eat with elbows on the table, the youth are going to proms, weddings and the like and certainly wont ask mom what fork to use. So, we have a 6 course meal and the staff instructs on proper "eating" technique. Its well received each year. We also have our urban adventure tour. We are 45 minutes fronm the Holland Tunnel but few of the youth had ever been in NYC. So every year in december we have gone to NY for the day. Last year we were in Times Square and they got to get a picture with the Naked Cowboy. Now there's real recruitment fodder (for one segment at least)The Venturing Oath ends with a promise to find adventure in the world and we find it every where we can. The Crew has had 2 adult recipients of the COuncil Venturing Leadership award as well as 3 youth recipients. At one time it was remarked that Crews usually have a special interest and ours was Administration, its what they wanted to do. Put on a Halloween/COPE weekend, the VLSC, a Cardboard Boat Regatta, etc. Venturing truly is what you and your youth make of it(This message has been edited by OldGreyEagle)

MySpace, like any tool, be it a gun, a knife or a blunt object is neither good or bad, it is just a tool. As with any tool it may be used for good or for not so good. The same rules apply for MySpace as they would for any internet activity. No use of real name, address, phone number, etc. The intimacy that MySpace exudes may trick youth into thinking only "cool" alright people exist there and that may not be accurate.

I dont beleive that last comment augers well for this topic

Welcome to the Forums Aidan, as a member of the group that almost put you off of these forums let me answer your question. The results you saw were humor, or at least attempts there of. As you know a Venturing Crew is an individual unit within the BSA. It is in no way part of a troop (which may have a Venture Patrol) but may have male youth who are members of troops. A Venturing Crew may be all male, all female or Co-ed. As is the Crew I am associated with. The Venturing Program fits in Scouting in that it has the same mission but different methods. Venturing allows the youth to be more actively involved in the program and is very open to the interests of the youth. You find crews follwing an Arts and Hobbies program such as the model rail roading Crew in our COuncil or one that does WWII renacting. They may do Sports, Youth Ministries or Sea Scouts as well as the Outdoors. Its for older youth (oxymoronish I know) 14 to 21 years of age. The Crew I am with tends to promote individual camping skills, in that we back pack a lot while also developing teamwork in that we have organized quite a few Council Venturing events, all youth led. The biggest detractors of Venturing in scouting come from units or the attitude that you will steal the boys from the troop. And the older boys at that! The issue is Crews dont steal boys from Troops, Crews may attract boys whose troops have a boring program. Not much of a difference, but its there. Crews dont steal members, troops lose them. Anyhow this is a start, I know several others on the forum are quite sold on Venturing so I cant wait to see what they have to say. I am in Bethlehem PA, where are you?

Hanging back and not sitting on the BOR is sort of like abstaining. You can also say you werent part of the team that "advanced" the boys but then again you didnt do anything to address the situation either. If you have serious questions about the fitness of the scout(s) then by all means talk to the scoutmaster. His perspective may be different or he may be unaware of what you have seen. Ignoring the problem should be the last option

But I dont see how a void would help either

So Semper, are you saying that you have had your fill of the hole matter?

Ed, if I grab the back of your skivies and pull them over the top of your head, you would be laughing?

Just a thought... Way back in my youth, I was a member of a very large and active troop. In the Chicago sururbs in the late 60's early 70's we went to the Grand Canyon, Glacier National Park and the group bicycled to Florida after I aged out. Even in such a robust group of gung ho scouts, there were some of us who were more gung ho than others. Quite frequently at Camporees and the like there would be considerable friction in patrols as the non gung-ho scouts would "let down" the more gung-ho of us. It was quite the morale issue. The Scoutmaster created the Gung-Ho patrol. Scouts who wanted to be the best and guess what? We were the only ones in the troop "allowed" to wear the red berets! To be a member of the Gung-Ho patrol you had to excell at at least one scouting skill, or better yet three or four (morse code/semophore was the exception) and maintain that skill. We werent assembled for Camporees, we were always a patrol and wore our berets with pride. Now. did the scoutmaster subvert the Patrol system? We didnt have fights over why the lame brain couldn't distinguish between an oak and maple leaf as previously. The patrol functioned within the troop and we (or I ) was happy. I remember a parent saying it was wrong because as adults we would have people in our work places who didnt match the boys standards to which the scoutmaster replied yes but birds of a feather flock together. Putting singleminded of purpose boys together to accomplish a goal isn't bad, is it?