OldGreyEagle

I couldnt Bear it if anyone had to wait on us I used to be a Bear, a good ole' Bear too. And now I'm finshed Bearng, I don't know what to do. I'm growing old and feeble, and I can Bear no more, So I'm going to work my ticket if I can. Back to Gilwell, happy land, I'm going to work my ticket if I can.

Some memories of WGN, The Ray Rayner Show, Bozo the Clown with Oliver O Oliver (Ray Rayner again) Bob Bell as Bozo and Ringmaster Ned and the Grand Prize Game, Frazier Thomas with Garfield Goose with the Clutch Cargo cartoons and then on Sunday, Frazier Thomas hosting Family Classics and then Early mornings watching Diver Dan with my first crush, Miss Minerva (heavy heavy sigh) NAtionally, My Friend Flicka, Sargeant Preston of the Yukon and his lead dog King, Happy Trails to you being sung by Roy and Dale (if you need last names, getoutofhere)I'm Dickens, He's Fenster with Marty Ingles and John Astin, Circus Boy played by Mickey Dolenz who was reputed to have gone on to some measure of success in pop music. The Burns and Allen show where George would be watching the other charactors on his TV but when they came in the room, it was always the same cowboys and indians show. Our Miss Brooks with Eve Arden and a wispy walter denton long before Col. Samuel Trautman was around, the length, depth and breadth is incredible

My father is amazing, we can be in an office building, go up a flight of stairs and then down a hall way, make a few turns and end up in a waiting room where he tells me to take a seat along the north wall. I have no idea how he does it, but upon investigation he is always right. I can use a map and compass ok, but without them there would be another news story about a lost scouter.

Long ago and far away Harry Caray first came to Chicago to announce for the Chicago White Sox, you know, the guys who have won the World Series within the past 8 decades or so. I am proud to say I was able to assist in taking Harry's employment chest x-ray. the details of which would not fit in the purview of this forum ask me about it in person some time

SSScout, you threw me off, had you said TW3, I would have gotten "That Was The Week That Was" right off with the illustrious David Frost as the host. I see some of the same overtones in VH-1's "Best Week Ever" but the politcal intrigue is lacking.

"However, it is almost ancient history to the boys in Scouting now" Heck, I still have underwear older than that

I sometimes suffer from a hyperbolic vocabulary. When I said "Penalize" I meant since the Troop elected the SPL for the term of office, why would you take the youth voted by the youth to be their leader and replace him with someone selected by the PLC? Seems like a short circuiting of the Democratic process. I am not sure how being a JASM is better than the SPL, the SPL is the youth leader of the troop selected by his peers there is no higher honor. I got the idea that the SPL appoints the JASM with the consent of the Scoutmaster from my Scoutmaster's Handbook, I don't always trust what websites say as I don't want to fall victim to Pierre Salinger syndrome. Is it a tradition in your Troop that when a boy recieives Eagle he automatically becomes a JASM? Eagle isn't a BSA requirement for JASM, what if an ASPL becomes Eagle, do you replace him? Why not let the youth serve out their terms? (Edited Part) As I read the progrssion of my posts, I saw where what I have said may be taken as rather critical and I dont mean it to be. You are seeking an answer to a question and I am talking in circles. Perhaps I should just ask what has been done in the past and why would this situation cause parental problems?(This message has been edited by OldGreyEagle)

Why would a scout's rank effect his Position of Responsibility? He was elected by the Troop to fulfill a term of office, just because he earns Eagle is no reason to "penalize" the troop by taking their elected leader out of the position. He can be a JASM when his term expires. A JASM is appointed by the SPL with the consent of the Scoutmaster so why would an SPL appoint himself out of office?

Oddly enough I have a small collections of recordings of B-P's speeches. I have his 80th birthday address and it's wonderful, it really gives you a glimpse of the man who had a wonderful sense of humor, that sense of humor is again illustrated in his speech titled "Address to the Public" where he describes the Boy Scout movement as "The movement primarily is a brotherhood of service of boys and men. Its school of character of citizenship, of personal efficiency for the good of the community." Then he immediately follows up with this rejoinder "This sounds high-falootin. For what is as we know it, a band of bare-kneed rascals, with cowboy hats and staves in their hands" but again his sense of humor comes through. In his speech "Address to Scoutmasters and Commissioners" he has the following statement "...We want more young men and even young women to come forward as Scoutmasters. There is work for all, and good work...." So apparently the founder didnt buy into the fact you had to be testosterone laden behemoth of a man to be a scoutmaster, he wanted all who could do the work of which they were capable and he appreciated it all as necessary and not that some was of higer value than others. B-P was quite a remarkable fellow, we would do well to strive to be like him.

Maybe I should, but I don't, can't speak for the others. I invite a little comparison shopping, here are other scouting forums: http://usscouts.org/cgi-bin/discuss/discus.cgi http://www.meritbadge.net/phpbb/ http://www.scoutingforums.org/ I invite Kudu to post his opinions of the BSA and Wood Badge and the role of women in scouting in these forums and we will see how he is treated by those moderators.

Sorry if you felt threatened by a person who has no idea who you are or where you are, but if I accept perception is reality then perhaps the expirired Kudu picture was over the top, but not so over the top that you recopied it yourself. I learned a long time ago that moderating this Forum was not for the faint of heart, nor would applying my own standards of behavior be correct as my efforts would be seen as censoring. I try to let conversations go on as long as they seem productive to the participants. I can tell you everytime a thread is closed, the outpouring of rage over the abridgement of a first amendment right is incredible so it is done as little as possible on my part. I have ascribed to pretty much a policy of you reap what you sow. If a person comes on all full of vim and vigor and is rather rough in opinion and doesnt hesitate to knock scouting icons and mocks BSA and generally all forms of establsihed authority, that is his/her right. But when people answer those posts with as much passion defending the status quo and answer rough language with the same, I dont understand why the original person feel attacked when the same type of language they used is used on them.(This message has been edited by OldGreyEagle)

Look, it's Georg and Yortuk Festrunk waiting for some Foxes!

Sharing a Vision can be a tough thing, I think developing a Vision Statement is one of the first items on Venturing's VLSC (Venturing Leadership Skills Course). Crews are asked to develop a Vision based on what they want their Crew to be. One Crew last time I helped staff such a course had a statement that went something like, "Crew XXX is a high adventure crew, we seek to camp out once a month and not let weather stop us". This statement gives a glimpse of how the Cerw sees itself and what it wants to do. Weatherphobes need not apply. Another Crew was more oriented towards Whitewater Kayaking, and their Vision statement reflected that. In the end, the Vision statments help define and describe the crew to others and sometimes even to the members. If an adult has a Vision for the organization, it can be presented and discussed but care has to be taken that the youth dont feel like they are carrying out an adults agenda, it has to feel like their own unit, their own plan, their own way. BTW, I struggle with this all the time. let the ship shape its own vision, add your ideas, but as ideas only, as starting points for discussion, if they like the ideas, they will stay around in some format. If they dont like the idea then it will be lost and better to find out they dont buy it now than if you built a program based on an idea nobody embraces

Way back when I was naught a child, you actually had to get up from where you were sitting and walk across the room to change the channel on the TV set (waiting appropriate time while collective audience gasps) not only that we only had 5 channels to choose from, ABC, NBC, CBS, WGN and the Educational Channel (I grew up around CHicago). I felt so sorry for my cousins, where they lived they only got 3 channels (Heavy nostalgic sigh). Back then the networks new they had multi-generational families to attract to their shows and so they tried. The variety show was a great format, look at Ed Sullivan, a visit from Topo Gigio for the kids could be followed by a visit by Elvis the Pelvis for the younger adults and later an old time crooner would drop in to touch all bases. With todays multi-channel listings each show, each network has a niche it has carved out attracting the demographics the sponsors want. Specific programming is targeted to a specific audience. If you dont find something you want to watch, its not that the quality is gone, whats on wasnt made with you in mind

Sorry Gonzo, the only good thing about the 70's and scouting was the red beret otherwise it marked the end of scouting as an Outdoor program and became more urban, numbers dropped and changes were made and rather quickly, even for BSA national. Wonder what Brian would have thought had the internet been around in the 70? What would be the changes then? Stacked leather high heeled hiking boots? A troop lava lamp? Scoutmaster's being mandated to have perms? An updated uniform based on the leisure suit? the mind reels...

Interesting thoughts Kudu and I sorta kinda knew about the one week one bead program, but I have a few questions/points that I would like your ideas on. One of the reasons, as I understand it, that Wood Badge was changed (neutered tends to be inflammatory, but that's your call)was because of the distinctly "cliqueish" quality that grew up around it. Those who has completed Wood Badge oft thought of themselves as the only real "scouters" that was possible and were not shy to boast of how they were so much better than the rest of the poor shrubs working to better the program. Wood Badge was changed because numbers of adequate trainers for the Cub Scout Wood Badge was dwindling and there was a real need to provide training beyond the introduction courses to non-scoutmastering types so Wood Badge for the 21rst Century was devised. Maybe that was an error on BSA part, to "steal" the name Wood Badge, but it was done to end the idea that the BSA was run by an almost secretive group (WB graduates) who distrusted any outsider and felt only they should be entrusted with the responsibility of running the program. Back when I first started with my son, you had to be "invited" to attend Wood Badge and such inviations were rumored only to be dealt to the most talented and scouting spirited around. I hope that perception is different now, at least so I hope. But that doesnt help with the training issue. I think its a lot of fun to split a cord of wood. Most scouts wouldnt have any idea how much a cord is, or what it is for that matter. When I talk about backwood skills I dont mean GPS, I mean map reading. When it comes to cooking, not using a backpacking stove, but an open fire, started with squaw wood and we dont worry about LNT, well, we do worry about it, but please let me use squaw wood. Stalking is not about that unfortunate incident I had outside Eva Longoria's residence and more about following a deer to its bedding site. I would love to see a more advanced outdoor skills class, but I wonder if such classes could be staffed nationally by volunteers and not because of the wimplification of the BSA, more like the wimplification of Western society.

Kudu, I believe Eamonn touched on this subject in another thread, but those strong out door skilled individuals arent around as much as they used to. My father grew up in rural depression Maine and I was taught how to make a rabbit snare at a fairly young age, a skill I have since neglected to pass on. All my fathers friends hunted and could read sign as well as they read maps, and they were great map readers. Many of the younger dads (It hurt to type that) have very little in the way of outdoor or "backwood" experience. They are in it because their kid wanted to be a scout but most have never camped in any fashion and few ever backpacked. The most skilled backpacker we have is an aging hippy who did "Europe" in the 60's, at least he thinks he did. He said back then he never thought he would be a boy scout, but his grand son is in it. So, maybe a week long outdoor skills course is needed, what would you suggest as core skills? Wilderness First Aid Cooking Shelter Building Snares and fish traps Fire starting au natural and?

You may be onto something Eamonn When I was a scout, I saw every leader grab an axe, fall and tree, trim and make firewood out of it. I doubt that skills resides in half of the Districts adult leaders. At summer camp I was in the Axe yard chopping away and a fairly large "gallery" developed, seems the boys had never seen anyone split wood before and couldnt beleive I could do it. I tried to assure them anyone of them could as well, after all I was splitting wood when I was their age, but had no takers. I guess while a fireplace is de rigeur in the suburbs, but one is only to burn store bought or delivered wood, one never chops his own (after following leave no trace of course). I forget his name but a comedian had an entire routine based on what his parents knew versus what his generation knows. My father could replace the water and fuel pump on his car, adjust both brakes and clutch and he wasnt alone, every dad on the block could as well, we all saw them. Who can do this today? He could wire and plumb houses and hang drywall as well. Again, he wasnt alone. It was regarded as an everyman skill. Today we have computers and just about everyone can google just about anything, but I wonder about what physical skills we have lost? How many adults feel confident in orienterring? Maybe more in depth wood craft skills courses would be good, can we find instructors?

I have found when doing the VLSC the bigger the group the better dynamics that occur and much better if you can get multiple Crews to attend such as would be the case at District or Council events. SOme of the group activities work so much better with lots of people and even better when they dont know each other. Having said that, I dont mean a Crew couldnt do a great job themselves, I just think having moer than one crew is a better approach.

WOW, thats a perfect copy of the first posting Beavah, I can only think you saved a copy, for which I am grateful. It may just be me, but I always thought that you could use music as a soundtrack for such things as Eagle Slideshows and Courts of Honor without a problem, the issue becomes real when you charge admittance (IE make a profit) and a sound track is used. Then it becomes illeagal. Then again I may be wrong

I was doing some double posting clean-up on the MPAA thread and inadvertently "hid" it. It still may be accessed by the "Active in last 24 hours" method, but I cant get it back to be viewed via normal methods.

Heck, I was always taught Virture was its own reward

Speaking of ironies,well somebody was somewhere... it occurs to me that the ACLU and the BSA have many similarities. Both are nationally known institutions that have a habbit of making headlines. Another similarity is both do much good that most people never see or hear about. Such as the Eagle project that restores an old Cemetary or the ACLU actions in Michigan that Lisa'bob mentioned . When you think about it, the general public perception of both the BSA and the ACLU could use a little rehab so I have this idea. ::trumpet blast:: How about an ACLU activity patch? I thought about it when I was reading the MPAA thread. Boys who finish would get a patch in the shpae of the ACLU logo, just the thing to sew on your patch vest! Requirements would be to visit the local ACLU office or talk with a ACLU representative. It may do the youth good to see ACLU employees don't necessarily have horns sprouting from their foreheads and talk pretty much the same as me and you. They could talk about what issues the local ACLU has been involved with. Many times I am sure the ACLU is active in the community but get little or no mention unless its a hot button issue and then its national attention just like the BSA. The discussion could center around local, state and regional issues. It wouldnt hurt to have future citizens knowledgeable about a private organization that exists to protect everyone's rights. Most of all I want to see the headline, "ACLU and Boy Scouts partner" Just reading that headline might qualify as a cardio workout for some people I know.

:: out of the background comes the start of the big, loud, slow solo clap:: You Go Girl!

OK Trev, I amended my original post on this matter