OldGreyEagle

Beavah, as I certainly prove multiple times I dont always coounicate my thoughts well. I spend quite a lot of time on a post only to have a subsequent poster explain exactly what I had in mind in half the space, so bear with me. When you say the CO chooses from the prgoram where it wants to go, it gives me great agina. While I agree there is tremoundous flexibility in the Boy Scout program, there are some parts that I hold sacrosanct. I realize you also may have sacrosanct items that you hold that I would not. The question is, what are those items?(This message has been edited by OldGreyEagle)

Calico, your story coincides with mine, see we have educated a forum!

Oddly enough I also look forward to the return of the Son

Touche SA, As I said I can only talk from my own experience and I can see how a minority applicant could view my attitude towards them as hostile, but I also have a right to my opinions and expressing them may give minorities an insight that not all white males feel they are king of the universe.

Whether its a Dagwood, a Sub, a Grinder or a Hoagie it's all the same thing. Eamonn, any idea why they call it a hoagie?

I will attempt this, not sure if I can do this justice however: I remember growing up in elementary school being told as a male I had to mind my manners with female teachers and I had to be sure I let the young ladies in line in front of me, hold the door open for them and if I wanted to curry favor with them, carry their books home from school, even though later I was told it was important to acknowledge they could anything I could. As I grew, and I was big for my age, I was warned against retaliating against the little guys suffering from "Napoleon complex" as it was certain I would be blamed for any altercation regardless of who did the provoking. Then as my voice developed I was warned with my size and thunderous voice I would have to be careful not to scare those younger than I or for that matter the elderly as I was told I looked "menacing" when upset. In college I had to compete against minorities, females, and female minorities who didnt have to score the same on the entrance tests because of "affirmative action". When I became a manager I had to learn to tolerate diversity and be sensitive to my employees needs and attend yearly sensitivity training. That my work ethic may not match others and I would have to allow for cultural differences. I realize I can only speak from my experience, that which I have experienced, but if I had any advantages, I wish someone would explain where and how. My father was a middle class workman and I worked my way through Community College, got my Bachelors after working for a year by working every week end and holiday for 3 years and my Master's Degree by going to night school. When some one talks of all my advantages, I wonder...(This message has been edited by OldGreyEagle)

Ok, in the spirit of the season, Who, day and night, must scramble for a living, Feed a wife and children, say his daily prayers? And who has the right, as master of the house, To have the final word at home? The Papa, the Papa! Tradition. The Papa, the Papa! Tradition. Etc. What makes a tradtion? To me a tradition is a link to the past from the present, it means something. To some, the Christmas tree is a tradition evoking memories and stories long ago, the same can be said of the menorah. Why do many of us eat turkey for Thanksgiving? We don't cook it a lot during the rest of the year, when one serves turkey its regarded as a special occassion. A tradition is a tradition because those familiar with it find it important and want to communicate its importantnace to the next generation. If the older generation can't make the younger generation understand the tradition then it mustn't be that important to the older generation elseways the passion, the importance, the essence would be communicated. If a Troop has a tradition, then its up to the older boys to communicate the reason, passion and understanding of what that tradition means. If they dont regard it highly, neither will the new scouts and it will be lost. If a Troop does a tradition because the adults want to, then we really arent that far from what brian buf talks about, running a program that appeals to the adults and not the youth and I dont think anyone wants to do that

Such a man as has been described exists, at least in literature, his name is Bond, James Bond and prefers his martini's shaken not stirred as it bruises the gin...

Dont you just hate it when someone pounces on a phrase and starts a row? Then you will most likley not like the following: Beavah, you said "The Catholic units have a different understandin' of Thrifty than some of the work-ethic Protestants, eh?" So Catholics do not have as strong a work ethics as protestants? I certainly dont think thats what you were trying to say, so I look forward to a clarifying statement

Ah, the essence of being Boy Lead... chaos Does your troop have any youth instructors? Do you think you could get a group discussion on the principles of group dynamics, forming, storming, norming and performing with your menu planning as the test subject? It's not unusual for a group not to function well if the members constantly change. If you have a different mix of people doing the planning, there will always be some amount of "storming" going on. It may be a good idea to let the leaders and youth know its normal and not their "fault". Perhaps the PLC should place a time limit on menu preparation, say five minutes a meal. Lastly, I would be more in favor of the youth attending the camp out being the only ones talking and having the duty rooster done first and having the clean up crew having a voice on what is cooked as well. Just a thought

GWD, that of course begs the question of what is the penalty for bigamy, the answer of course is two wives, or two husbands, whatever the case may be

that loud whooshing sound was the point flying up overhead...

See, now I had a different view of this topic. I have two lovely neices, Erin and Kelly. My mother had the hardest time in the world saying those names together, especially after she had a series of "mini-strokes". WHen she said the names together, it was forever comming out as Karen and Elly. She knew that was wrong, but she just couldnt ennuciate Erin and Kelly as a phrase. The girls being a little older had no problem. When my mother called for Karen and Elly, both would get up and see what grandma had to say. We started calling them Karen and Elly and as has been said, it was no problem as long as they werent called late for dinner. My mother always had a history of malaprops. Way back there was a TV show called "Carter Country" about a small county sheriff's Office starring Victor French and Kene Holliday. Of course she always referred to it as Kotter Country. A few years later when Gabe Kaplan came along with the sweathogs, John Travolta as Vinnie Barbarino and Arnold (The cattle are dying) Horshack the show was promptly referred to as "Welcome Back Carter" Then there was the time she was thriled with the Insurance Companies new prescription plan, she had to send away for the drugs mail order but they were so cheap she didnt mind. She said it was because it was the genetic equivalent. I said I think thats generic Mom, to which she said perhaps, but it really should be geriatric. I miss her...

Getting Venturing Crews together, especially those of disparate interests can be hard. We had a Model Train Crew that had been an Explorer Post that went back to being a Post because Venturing did nothing for them. At the big Council Wide activity a few Crews showed up, they were all Outdoor Crews, seems the other Crews didnt want to camp, cuz if the youth liked camping, they would be outdoor crews and not Arts and Hobbies, Youth Ministries, etc. The one common thing you can get Crews together for is VLSC because that can be done irrespective of Crew interest and can be done as a "Lock-in" in a building. Now, for a challenge, you could do a Cardboard Boat Regatta as they seem to appeal to everyone. Have a campout with Campfire, as you have to burn the boats anyway, and maybe some of the non-outdoor crews will try it, if not they can always just show up for the day. We have a traditional Cook out hosted by Lovie and Thurston Howell III of course

I am going to be on both sides of the fence, so if my post sounds like I am, you are correct. First, The last year National numbers increased was 1998. There has been a decline each year since then. My source is the BSA Annual report found on the BSA website. Search for 2005 Annual Report, then 2004, etc. I know, I did it. So, nationally the numbers are going down. The next part is what can be done about it. And that, fellow scouters is mighty obvious, at least it should be. Offer a great program. I will repeat that, Offer a great program. I have done this before, so forgive me if I repeat myself. Lets say the BSA gets a huge gift from a departed Scouter. Many millions of dollars that are earmarked specifically for advertising the BSA. We get Steven Spielberg to do a series of commercials. We get Lindsay Lohan to do spots on Venturing, Daniel Radcliffe talks about the magic of scouting, we get John Williams to score the spots with a melody that becomes number one on all charts. We get more kids fairly foaming and frothing at the mouth for scouting than ever before. And when these kids, wanting to run rivers wild, wanting to hike, camp, rapel and commune with nature hit the units, what then? Can your unit say it fulfills the promise of being a Boy Lead troop that does exciting activities? Is your Cub Pack the kind Dakota Fanning would dress up like a boy to join? Look at the various situation we hear about here on the forum and on other forums. Scouts serving six months in a POR, signed off by scoutmaster for Scouting Spirit only to have the BOR turn them down. Life scouts denied an Eagle BOR because the District Advancement Chair doesnt think the boy did enough. You guys know what I am talking about. When you think about it, as much as I would love to see a wholesale national media campaign about Scouting, I dont think the units could handle the influx of membership and then, dealing with the aftermath of disillusioned members. The answer, as has been mentioned many times before is a great program. There are countless stories told on these forum about people doing it right and growing their unit. That is how a national numbers decline will be reversed, one member, one unit, one individual at a time. I can't help you guys any more than you can help me but if we all help our fellow scouters provide a quality program, we just might have something.

But there has to be an end point, doesnt there? What if a troop decided the best way to retain boys was to have the first class and above wear the Venturing shirt and Eagles could wear a mountie red Esienhower military style tunic ala Michael Jackson. If the Troop's rentention and Eagle rate skyrocketed, would that make it right? The word uniform, when it is not referring to the articles of clothing refers to be consistent and the same, if you play with that concept, what other methods are you playing with? Actually if you can alter the uniform method, why do we seem to get bent outta shape when a troop fools with boy-lead? Patrol Method? Outdoors? What is the absolute core of scotuing that is so sacred no one dare "tweak" it? And if it doesnt exist, are we a national organization or a vaguely held together confederation?

Every once in awhile there are topics on the forum that are met with resounding agreement, and this is one. For as much as we can differ in opinions, we all do appear to hold some things inviolate and I am proud to be a member of this forum.

Using all the scoutlike deportment at my disposal, let me remind the kind and gentle readers that some DE's, especially those with no experience in the scouting program can be as useful as a bent nail and just as knowledgable

you had better not be talkin' trash 'bout JoePa or I may have to get Medieval on you

Actually, I have always thought of myself as a boy lead troop advocate, but as the title of a thread read long ago there is a difference between boy lead and boy lead into the ground. I know I have commented many times that a scout cannot be told at his scoutmaster's conference that his past 4 or 6 month term of POR doesnt count because the scout didnt perform satisfactory, thats something that cant wait until the end of the POR. Now, if the holder of the POR, in this case isnt doing his job, the Scoutmaster needs to review the responsibilities with the scout, and then if no inprovement is made, be sure to document a meeting with the scout where expectations are laid out and goals set. If the goals or expectations are not met, I see no problem with the Scoutmaster setting new elections. This is a last result and not to be done lightly, but it may have to be done. The boys need to see that the goals and expectations of the scoutmaster are not a joke and must be met.

"Yet all is well in happy valley." hey, can we leave Penn State out of this? Good Ol' Joe Pa has enough trouble recovering from that broken leg and preparing the Nittitny Lions for their Bowl Game

::gasp:: Could I be wrong? Hoisted on my own petard as it were? Will be fun to get the documentation, either way...

"What is a Sout? " Ah Ed, you rascal, what a card! How many of us have screwed up a title to a Thread and then upon posting it realize that a word is mispelled but once titled, a thread is set and can't be edited? And even though it has been pointed out numerous times that its poor internet etiquette to harp on typo's, it still goes on. What can I say?

To be fair, the original quote was " If we can say that homosexual behavior is automtically disqualifying..." So, the original poster did not imply, or I didnt see it as an implication that it was BSA policy, only "if we can say" which I took as a supposition, not a statement of BSA policy

Just as long as its a Boy Scouty Two-deep leadership sort of love, I am good