OldGreyEagle

I am suer it's because the time of year, the traditional time for crossovers, but just when did the great Schism between Cubs and Boy Scouts occur and how do we fix it? We have had threads about how dull Boy Scout meetings are from a Cubs standpoint, and how Boy Scouts is so much different from Cubs and how Cubs can get lost in the first few months of being a Boy Scout and I have to wonder what the heck is going on. If this is such a problem, it can't be due to a few people not being trained. Why is this such an issue? I admit I am many years removed from Cubs, but when did it become a we versus they, Cubs Vs Boy Scout proposition? ANd maybe most importantly, how do we fix it? In the word of Walt Kelley, we have met then enemy, and we are they

It's been awhile since I have posted my favorite quote regarding the state of the next "generation" "Our youth now love luxury. They have bad manners, contempt for authority; they show disrespect for their elders and love chatter in place of exercise; they no longer rise when elders enter the room; they contradict their parents, chatter before company; gobble up their food and tyrannize their teachers." Socrates Apparently its the job of the youth to keep the old guys on their toes and make them shake their heads in disgust. The odd thing is, eventually the youth become the old guys and will be shaking thier heads in disgust. While looking at a young couple in the mall, fresh with eye brow ring, nose ring and facail tattoo, (that was the young lady)I wonder what people thought 20 odd years ago when I toured the Mall in my pastel yellow linen elephant bells, 5 inch leather stacked suede platform shoes and skin tight metallic polyester shirt. Mi'lady of course would be wearing no bra, granny glasses and a an Indian (as from India) cotton blouse with exotic embroidery and sandals crafted to look like they were made from tire treads. Life has a way of moving forward

Gee Bevah, I dont know. All the "good" DE's our rather small Disitrct have ever had moved on to other Council's after 24-30 months. The reason given? They have to move on to move up. The less "good" DE's are terminated and are no longer with the "organization", at times I feel we are the single "A" affiliate of the Northeast Region. Then again you may live in an area where the size of the council means the individual professional doesnt have to move each time they are promoted. In my Council, the pro's all talk about working in Columbus Ohio, Chicago and other far flung places. Where they go may have to do with how good they are and how big the COuncil is

Hey guys, its Lent and I tend to have ichthyological thoughts on Fridays in Lent. I tried to stop, but I couldnt just for the halibut.

Holy Mackerel, Far be from me to Carp, but some have to stop being so Bullhead(ed) about the situation and quite appealing to the Bass instincts of others. First of all, when you are in Boston and north along the coast, its Chowdah', and don't you forget it. In Seattle and the Pacific Northwest, its Chowder and you may even have a geoduck or two thrown in. I knew I Smelt something fishy all along and I Shad(n't) be quiet either as I Perch here and no, I didnt do it on Porpoise but I can tell you I feel mighty Crappie about now as I got a Shiner walking into a door (?!?) Maybe I should Drum up support for getting us back on tract. Speaking of Lady Country singers, whatever happened to Dolly Varden anyway?, well back to my medical studies, I hope to be a Sturgeon someday

I am not sure we want to start paying Council Executives by the scout, as much as we all feel so confident in those registration numbers. And if you do, how confident would you be after 5 years of steadily rising numbers knowing the compensation of the head guy is tied to those numbers. To make it big in scouting, one has to sacrifice a whole bunch. A DE doesnt start off very well and then the levels to rise thorugh with multiple transfers for self and family and then running an organization in which almost every member knows your an idiot, even when they may only have a faint notion of what you do. If you want top talent, you have to be ready to pay top talent. Then of course you also have to expect results and have those results matter. If the job isnt done, then something needs to be done. Perhaps Council Boards need to be selected by other than the COuncil Exec or the duties of the SE better understood.

How about Crew 12321, its membership would be limited to people who have names like: Anna Ava Eve Hannah Ada Bob Otto The Crew slogan would be Live not on evil (favorite music would be ABBA, and most admired athelete Monica Seles, actor Radar from MASH)

Perhaps rather than ban skateboards and related activities it would be better to teach our youth respect for themselves and others and to respect property, both private and public. Some sort of program that could teach youth to make ethical decisions in their life based on some predetermined core of values

Gwen DeMarco: They're not ALL "historical documents." Surely, you don't think Gilligan's Island is a... [All the Thermians moan in despair] Mathesar: Those poor people.

Back in my softball playing days I ended up being the "coach" mostly because no one else wanted to do the job, but someone had to get roster forms, make changes, etc. So, when jerseys were ordered I got a special number "0" and wore it proudly, the next year uniforms changed and I got another jersey, this one was "00", When people asked why I changed I said with a years experience, I was twice as valuable as I was the first year. BTW: Jim Otto

who is number 1? Crew 007 would have as its uniform an Armani Tux that comes off in one sweeping motion to reveal a full wet suit underneath, just the thing for the "Enchantment Under the Sea" type dances The young ladies of the Crew would have an elegant Versace Dress (off the shoulder of course)which when pulled off reveals a full climbing outfit comlete with climibg harness and an impressive array of carabiners (that actually are carabiners) Perhaps Crew 86 would be an electronics oriented crew dedicated to placing a phone in a shoe which may be possible today Post 1984 would be studying survelliance techniques at the local government building, they could tell you who their CO is but then they would have to kill you. Harry Caul is the Committee Chair and Martin Bishop would ,of course, be the Advisor(This message has been edited by OldGreyEagle)

There is a lot to be unerstood here, or misunderstood as it were. First, there is nothing wrong with a scout performing heavy manual labor to earn money for scout camp, a high adventure trip or a mini-bike. To get to the Grand Canyon and Glacier National Park as a youth. I cut grass, painted swimming pools, caddied golf and did pretty much whatever it took to earn the money. I did it alone, me as a free agent. I see other scouts the same way, many of the them cut grass and other things. This can't be the issue. If the Troop plans on operating a referral service, I find it intriguing. Ads are placed around town with a line like, "Boy Scouts for Rent" with either hourly or by the job rates. This, I guess, is OK, if the Troop reccommends the scout for the job, the scout shows up and does the work and gets paid for it. Where I see real problems is if the Troop lines up work, provides the scouts to do the work and then the Troop is paid which in turn pays the boys. In the first two scenarios the scouts are independent contractors, here they become employees and requirements and scope change. Child labor laws may play a part as well as workman's comp, witholding, etc. Then again, the Troop contracts with someone to provide boys to clean up, build, cut whatver and place the entire amount of funds in the troops account for "Camp". This sounds really interesting. The question of liability is key, if an accident happens, is the primary insurance going to the the boy's, the Troop or the landowner? Is there a lawyer in the house? A real "piece" and not someone who slept at a Holiday Inn? So, what set-up are we talking about?(This message has been edited by OldGreyEagle)

Post 451 would have to be a Journalism Post

I guess Troop 25 or 624 would have to be from Chicago

That's Ok BrentAllen, at this point I pretty much regard you on this topic as Pvt. Leonard Lawrence

I always thought the role of the Troop Guide was to, ahem, guide the new scout patrol's first, second, third, etc patrol leader and help the patrol with the administrative duties of being a patrol, IE select a cheer, make a flag, etc

There was a New York City Troop 666 in the news a few years back due to an abuse situation so it happens. I saw a Troop 666 at the 2001 National Jamboree. I would love to be a member of Troop/Pack/Crew 1910, and I would always be sure to have lots of Wrigley's Juicy Fruit with me Then again contemplate being a member of Troop 38, Special memories would be plentiful especially if you got to hang on loosely

So it would be better for me to watch a list of camp pranks and not contribute my experience? I tell my story so in the future when possibly youth are reading these pages they know that not all pranks are resounding successes and what the potential risks are. As far as Camp Skits, I don't how many "repeaters" you have seen, I was trying to provide a resource for new ideas, something to spark creativity. And as you can tell, I am quite affronted by being told I have no sense of humor and need to take myself less seriously. It's ok, I will get over it (although my therapist inexplicably was seen at the boat show looking to upgrade another 4 feet(This message has been edited by OldGreyEagle)

As I understand it, Boys come together to form Patrols, Patrols come together to form Troops, Troops come together to form Districts, Districts come together to form Areas come together to form Regions and the 4 regions come together to form National, the smallest basic unit is the Patrol. B-P recognized that boys liked to hand out in clusters of 6-10 and assigned the name Patrol to this group. It is the basis of scouting. To say patrols are just components of a Troop is like saying the states are just part of the US (See Kudu, I studied, well at least I think I did, I am sure you will point out any errors)

Unless I missed a post, I was the kid in the Snipe Hunt and it certainly didn't help me (elsewise why would we be discussing this?) All it did was teach me not to beleive or trust the boy leaders in the Troop. If you want to take that chance that's up to you. On a different note, we have the thread on Camp Skits open, so far I have posted 3 skits, and John-in-KC has added one. Are there no more playwrights out there?

Now Beaver, I really think you are going overboard on this and you need to take a breath and relax. I have been rethinking my stance on pranking and I may have to modifier it. A thread in the Cub Scout section deals with dull Boy Scout meetings from a Cub Scout perspective. I think when Cubs visit a Boy Scout Troop, the first thing that needs to happen is they all need to be sent out on a scavanger hunt. You know, bring back 50 feet of shoreline, the left handed smokeshifter, etc. Nothing will make the boys more welcome and part of the group than having the older boys yelling, laughing and pointing at them for being so naive, now that builds a team!

I have always struggled with a model to follow when Cubs come calling to the Troop. Do we have a program just for the Cubs? Which is dishonest because thats not the format we follow, or do we have a regular meeting with little or no explanation of what it is we are trying to accomplish that night. One thing we do is be sure the attendning parent has an adult leader "assigned" to them. They are introduced and the adult, interprets the meeting. Explains what's happening anf why. It separates the youth from the adult and the leader can explain the troops inner workings such as dues, meeting nights, communication netsworks, phone and email of the leaders, all the nuts and bolts of the Troop's administration. If you have a First Class First Year emphasis the leading adult and his troop guides would be a good bet to explain how a First Year Patrol would be integrated into the troop. Remeber, the BSA model suggests that a troop have 3 programs, one for the First Year Patrol, Regular Patrols and Venture Patrols http://www.scouting.org/nav/enter.jsp?s=by By definition, the Troop will most likely not have First Year Patrol when you vist just prior to joining the Troop as the newest scouts have been with the Troop almost 12 full months. I realize there is a huge difference between Boy and Cub Scouts, but if your contention is that Boy Scouts need to learn to sit down and shut up, why have a program? They can learn to sit down and shut up at School and a dozen other places. If Scouting is not fun for the boy, why would he return? Not every meeting is a riotous kneeslapper fest, but if meetings dont have some element of fun, somehow a point is being missed.

Hey BrentAllen, you may have an adult protection issue in your scenario as the adults in the troop I serve are expected to relieve themselves

This falls into the category of An Adaptation from a Previous work, I also have Venturing and Commisioner Versions, I knoe its long and would take some rehearsal by the participants, but its a knockout Reporter: Are you the representative of Troop XXX in XXX? Scout: Yes sir. Are you the reporter I am supposed to meet? Reporter: Yes I am. My paper thinks a story on your troop would be interesting, its supposed to be very unique. Scout: Yes, after all, we are the finest troop in XXX Council! Reporter: Well, I am glad you are proud of your troop, now tell me about the leaders. Scout: Lets see now, WHO is the Scoutmaster, WHAT is the Senior Patrol Leader and I DONT KNOW, the Quartermaster. Reporter: Well thats just great. I dont think you are the right person for this. Scout: And Why not? Reporter: Do you know the leaders names or not? Scout: Yes I do. Reporter: OK, then who is the Scoutmaster? Scout: Yes. Reporter: I mean the guys name. Scout: WHO. Reporter: Who is your Scoutmaster? Scout: Right. Reporter: Wait, Repeat what you just said. Scout: WHO is the Scoutmaster. Reporter: Youre asking me? Scout: I am not asking you, WHO is the Scoutmaster. Reporter: But I am asking, Who is the Scoutmaster? Scout: Thats the mans name. Reporter: Thats whose name? Scout: Yes. Reporter: Well, out with it, tell me Scout: WHO. Reporter: The Scoutmaster. Scout: WHO is the Scoutmaster. Reporter: I can see I am getting nowhere with this. Scout: I am answering your questions honestly. Reporter: Hey, I was a scout once. Made it to Star when a boy is ready to advance a rank, he has a Scoutmaster Conference right? Scout: Yes. Reporter: So, Who does the conference? Scout: Exactly! Reporter: Wait you are confusing me, what is the Scoutmasters name? Scout: Actually no, WHAT is the Senior Patrol Leader. Reporter: But I am not asking you who is the Senior Patrol Leader. Scout: WHO is the Scoutmaster. Reporter: Thats what I am trying to find out. Scout: Well dont change the subject. Reporter: Me??? Scout: Now take it easy. Reporter: The Scoutmasters name is what? Scout: WHAT is the name of the Senior Patrol Leader. Reporter: I am not asking who is the Senior Patrol Leader. Scout: WHO is the Scoutmaster. Reporter: I DONT KNOW! Scout: Oh, thats the Quartermaster, but we are not talking about him. Reporter: How did the subject change to the Quartermaster? Scout: You mentioned his name. Reporter: I mentioned his name? Who the Quartermaster? Scout: No, WHO is the Scoutmaster. Reporter: Stay away from the Scoutmaster, OK? Scout: You started it Reporter: What is the Scoutmasters name? Scout: WHAT is the Senior Patrol Leader. Reporter: I am not asking you who is the Senior Patrol Leader. Scout: WHO is the Scoutmaster. Reporter: I DONT KNOW! Scout: He is the Quartermaster. Reporter: There we go, back to the Quartermaster. Scout: Well, I cant help it. Reporter: Say, Lets stick with the Quartermaster. Scout: Sure. Reporter: So, What is the Quartermasters name? Scout: What is the Senior Patrol Leader. Reporter: I am not asking you who is the Senior Patrol Leader. Scout: WHO is the Scoutmaster. Reporter: I DONT KNOW! Scout: The Quartermaster. Reporter: Does your troop have a Scribe? Scout: Sure, every good troop has a Scribe. Reporter: The Scribes name? Scout: WHY. Reporter: Oh, I thought I would just ask. Scout: Well then, I thought I would just tell you. Reporter: OK, Who is the Scribe? Scout: WHO is the Scoutmaster. Reporter: What is the name of the Scribe? Scout: WHAT is the name of the Senior Patrol Leader. Reporter: I am not asking you who is the Senior Patrol Leader. Scout: WHO is the Scoutmaster. Reporter: I DONT KNOW! BOTH: The Quartermaster Reporter: And the Librarians name? Scout: LATER. Reporter: Oh, just forget the Librarian. Do you have a Troop Committee Chairman in this troop? Scout: Of course, we wouldnt be the finest troop in the council without the finest Committee ChairPERSON. Reporter: OK, tell me the Troop Committee ChairPERSONs name. Scout: TOMORROW. Reporter: You dont want to tell me now? Scout: I am telling you the name, TOMORROW. Reporter: Not today? Scout: TOMORROW. Reporter: When tomorrow? Scout: When? Reporter: When Tomorrow are you gonna tell me who is the Troop Committee Chairman? Scout: Now listen, WHO is not the Troop Committee Chairperson, WHO is the . Reporter: Please dont say WHO is the Scoutmaster. Scout: You are asking the questions. Reporter: I want to know what is the name of the Troop Committee Chairperson? Scout: WHAT is the name of the Senior Patrol Leader. Reporter: I DONT KNOW! Both: The Quartermaster. Reporter: You know, I have a son that would like to join Boy Scouts. Scout: You do? Reporter: Yeah, I think the only way to find out these peoples names is to have him join the troop. Scout: I am sure he would be a fine addition. Reporter: Well, I think I will bring him to your nest meeting. Scout: That would be great! Reporter: And while I am there I want to talk to the Scoutmaster. Scout: I would think so. Reporter: And I take my son and talk to Who? Scout: Now thats the first right thing you have said. Reporter: HUH??? I DONT EVEN KNOW WHAT I AM TALKING ABOUT!!! Scout: Well you should talk to WHO. Reporter: Oh, I talk to WHO? Scout: After all, WHO is the Scoutmaster. Reporter: I talk to WHO Scout: Yes. Reporter: So after I talk to WHO, the Scoutmaster, I then talk to the Senior Patrol Leader and his name is WHAT? Scout: Yes sir. Reporter: And then I talk to the Quartermaster . Scout: I DONT KNOW. Reporter: OK, WHO is the Scoutmaster, WHAT is the Senior Patrol Leader and I DONT KNOW is Quartermaster. Scout: By George, I think youve got it. Youre the one who said we were unique I thought you knew about the names. Reporter: But doesnt that cause a lot of STRESS? Scout: STRESS, thats the guy keeping track of rank advancement. Reporter: Lets see, WHO, WHAT, I DONT KNOW, WHY, TOMORROW, STRESS, they are all names? Holy Smoke! Scout: Holy Smoke? Thats our Troop Chaplain. Reporter: Im leaving. This is NUTS. Scout: NUTS, Thats our Council Executive

I do think that the message and messenger should be separated, however, I also think that some combinations are just not viable. Having Bill Clinton do a Public Service Announcement on the sanctity of Marriage may not be prudent. Having Bobby Knight do a PSA on the vitures of anger management might result in incredulence. Having Michael Jackson do a PSA on child safety may be a stretch Having Simon Cowell do a PSA on the need for civility may not be taken seriously Having the current administration do a PSA emphasizing the need to be thrifty would be ignored.