OldGreyEagle

SWScouter has it now Ideas whose time has come The Haiku is cool (This message has been edited by OldGreyEagle)

A few things to consider, the Moderators have never met as a group, there is the "secret" Moderator section but the last time span between opening threads on that section is 12/20/06 and 3/25/07 I look for issues of langauge/vulgarity/obscenity which I realize may seem funny to others as I sometimes cruise just this side of that line, if I wander over, I know I will hear about it as I should. When posts become a series of two people going back and forth I may try to send PM's or then lock the thread. Just because I disagree with a post doesnt mean I will change it, I may challenge it, but then I did the same thing when I wasnt a Moderator. I post on some forums were the moderators are rather rigid. If you wander from the topic, 2-3 moderators warn you about it and then they lock the thread quite quickly, I see that as overt censorship. I have taken the stand that once a thread is open, its direction is often like Forrest Gump's feather, it wanders where it might. Threads with a strong connection to what people think and feel will stay on course. Moderators view the Forum the same you do, Scouter-Terry has given is access to the admin button at the bottom of each post where we can sign-in anf then change the section the thread is in, edit or delete words, or delete post. We dont see any administrative details such as who is signing on, when, or anything like that. We dont have access to email sent to the contact us option on the page. If you want to compare notes look up posts by WHEELER, I just shuddered as I typed that, sorry. A poster who has since left the forum, or at least doesnt post anymore certainly effected me. He would always say about a person who exhibited a disagreeable posting style that allowing him to post was preferrable to denying him the right to post for in posting he either proved the certainty or the inanity of his position. We have always welcomed opposing views, well maybe not welcomed per se, but as long as they are not vulgar/obscene etc they can post.

First we need to understand terms. Do you mean By-Laws as in how many meetings a quarter a scout has to attend to advance, or do you mean a booklet which lists the day of the week the troop meets, when dues are due and who collects them, etc. Sometimes informational items get confused with the term by-laws. I can see why a troop would have an introductory booklet with the above information regarding meeting nights and times, sharing rides, insuruance requirements for driving scouts, phone numbers of key leaders, all that. Those I dont consider By-Laws. To me By-Laws are written policies normally covering such things as attedance and other items related to advancement although not always. SOme Troop By-Laws have a Code of Conduct, which always surprise me as thats the Scout Law. But, thats only my opinion, I could be wrong. Do you have some situation in mind that you think isnot addressed by BSA policies

OK OK OK OK OK, just one more and then no more for awhile Ozemu is the guy from down under Where women glow and men plunder I said, "Do you speak-a my language?" He just smiled and gave me a vegemite sandwich Can't you hear, can't you hear the thunder?

Kudu, let me know if you me to remove this but I think you will like it, if not, I will remove it There is a fine Scouter named Kudu That knows much more about B-P than I knu While his posts tend to run long One shouldnt say that they are wrong But he certainly thinks less of the BSA than I du

A certain poster we have here is Merlyn Leroy Whose posts can some of us annoy But if we thought about it And chew on it a bit We would realize he is just expressing his First Amendment rights we all enjoy

There is a scouter, Eamonn is his name Walking Rory, handling OJ and caring for SHMBO is his fame A Skipper is he As well as anything he would want to be For if its in the game, Ea it's in the game

Warning, Nantucket based limericks ahead: There once was a man from Nantucket Who kept all his money in a bucket Then one day his duaghter Nan Ran off with a man And as far as the bucket, Nantucket Paw followed the the pair to Pawtucket Hoping to reclaim his bucket he said to the man You're most welcome to Nan, But as far as the bucket, Pawtucket Paw took the bucket to Manhassett Where he hoped to use it as an asset Along came Nan, FOllowed by the man And as far as the bucket, Manhassett

National will always regard the date of his Board of Review as the date that he made Eagle, once National affirms it, he can wear the Eagle rank, scheduling conflicts shoukd not interfere with his ability to wear the rank he earned

There is a fine Scoutah named Beavah Whose skills are as sharp as a Cleavah, I cant always say That I understand his way But with passion for Scouting were Togethah

In the Troop we had a scout with Asperger's, I say had because he is no longer with the Troop. His father was quite active in the Troop and his son, while having a problem behaving, was not much different than the rest of the troop. I think 50% of the 62 Scouts are on Ritalin, thats what happens when a Pediatrician is your Committee Chair. So, the scout had behavioral issues at Summer Camp and was sent home on Thursday, not because he wanted to go home, he started hitting other kids for no apparent reason, I dont know, I wasnt there. The Troop had a High Adventure trip scheduled in 3 weeks and the father and son were comming along. The adult leadership took a vote as to whether or not the boy could come along. The vote was he could, but the father had to be very close to him at all times. Again, I wasnt there but towards the end of the week the boy flew into a rage and pummeled another scout quite violently. When the Troop got home, there was a Committee meeting and the Scouts expulsion was discussed and agreed. At the next Committee meeting the father was there and he wanted another chance for his son. The Committee ran down the events, in effect, the High Adventure trip was the second chance, he probably should have been dropped from the Troop after Summer Camp, but the father really works with the troop, etc. but the COmmittee decided we couldnt place the rest of the troop at risk because the father couldnt control his son. Thats when the father says but he has Aspbergers, even our Pediatrician wasnt aware of the diagnosis, he wasnt her patient. She felt, as we all did, he was just ADD. But after two physical attaks, and the boy getting bigger we had to let him go. We are not trained medical practitioners and if the father cant control his son, what are we to do? We talk alot about the volunteers leaders job to take care of the boy, we also have to keep in mind the welfare and safety of the rest of the troop. What if the third time the scout seriously injures another. What do we tell the family, we thought after the first two times he had it out of his system? Sadly the boy is gone, but I am not sure what else could have been done.

ASM915, the Moderators do not receive any emails from the Contact Us feature, that is for the administrators of the website, not the Moderators. I did not realize the Private Message feature was not working. If you want to contact me, email me at OldGreyEagle@Yahoo.com

I serve on the Districts Advancement Committee and review Eagle Projects and do BOR as well. In just about every BOR I ask if there were a lot of changes in their Eagle Project or if the project went the way the scout thought it would. If the scout says the project went just as he planned, it sets off the red flag and whistles. If it went that smooth, its time to check the plan and preparation. What I am used to is the scout telling about everything he didnt "figure" on, and how the issues were handled. I have always thought one of the greatest lessons of the Eagle Project was that not everything goes as planned, but even then, you can still accomplish your goal. From what you say, the goal was accomplsihed, project over.

Beavah, you can relax, after this I am pretty much done trying to address your posts, in this thread you said "Yah, yah to that. Amen. Da risk of FCFY is pencil-whippin' things to move 'em along. No retestin' or requirement addin', etc. etc., especially if that means takin' extra time to be sure the scout understands. I hope it didn't happen in this case, for the sake of those adults. I wouldn't want anyone to have to live with that." and you said that before the child was found. I understand I am way too rigid for you but we will both have to live with that. You talk about not placing blame, but to my way of reading this post, you appear to want to place blame and place it on FCFY. You talk about respecting the fine volunteers of the program, but then talk how these leaders may not have taught the skills well enough. Going off the BSA program is fine for you as long as the person going off the program is pure of heart while those of us who follow the program could never have a pure heart and are thoughtless automatons. Fine, have it your way, you will spin this as you will. I wont try to rebutt anymore of your posts save when you say something patently wrong and I have the reference to back it up. I know you hate that but again, we will both have to live with it.

So, in the end it appears the wayward scout didnt want to be a scout anymore and decided to take off home. Apparently a pencil whipping scoutmaster in a haste to make his scouts first class is not to bame after all.

"I expected to read another "Video Games are the Devil" type thing." Oddly enough, throughout human exisitence, various things have been branded as the devils or at least his spawn. A long time ago, a new dance craze hit the modern world. The young kids loved it, the old folks deplored it as immoral and lascivious in nature. What was this vulgar outrage? The Waltz. Dancing to this point had always been with a gulf between partners, to have them actually touch was scandalous! It was the "Devils Dance" The old folks proclaimed this outrage to be the harbinger of the decline of western society, but we endured. The Gay Nineties, the Flappers of the Roaring 20's, the Zoot Suiters of the 40's and the Greasers of the 50's were all spawn of the devil according to the previous generation, Rock and Roll music was said to make those who listened to it incapable of making moral choices, it was the "devils music". Remember when certain adults were positive that the rock band KISS were Knights In Satan's Service? That Gene Simmon's oft operated on tongue would be the downfall of western civilization? Here is a man who dated Cher, is married to Shannon Tweed and has a reality show, big threat he is. Lets not worry about what the current craze is, lets understand our target populace and address their needs.

I am sorry, I do not undersatnd the very premise of this thread, so please help me out. I do not see how whether or not you have a FCFY program impacts skills retention. Whether the scout learns the skills to become first class in a year or it takes him five years the only way he will retain those skills is if he uses them and that is the role of the program. If you dont use it, you lose it, simply put. As it is obvious I miss Beavah's subtlety on this issue, can someone explain to me what the issue is?

so the myth that if you do First Class First year you can't possibly do a good job is busted?

In the troop I serve we have a New Scout patrol or two or three depending how may scouts bridge. We follow the suggested set up so I wont bore you with those details. Kids who come to meetings and go on outings and learn their skills and retain them advance, those who dont, dont. I do not see how having a first class first year program versus not having a First class first year program has anything to do with the retaining of important skill. Either the troop teaches the skills and then makes those skills an inherent part of the program so they are used and not lost or forgotten, or it doesnt. Having a First Class First Year program means that a scout "can" reach first class in a year if he attends the troops activities. If he doesnt show up, he doesnt complete activties/requirements so he doesnt advance. First Class First Year is about giving the scout an opportunity to advance to First Class in a year, it doesnt say the scout must make first class in a year only that the scout has the opportunity. Retaining skills is about how often they are used, its not how they were learned in the first place

"9 ASM's - guide and advise scouts as asked by scouts 7 with specific cuties, about 12 overall" Just wondering how the 5 spouses not classified as "cuties" feel about the whole deal? Is this what is known as a Freudian Slip?

What can you do? Probably nothing unless the scouts wants to advance. We had a similar scout, had lots of merit badges, lots of skills but was tenderfoot because of the book thing et al. The Council announced a Philmont contingent trip for the following summer and he realized to go he had to be first class and so he was in about 6 weeks. Then, because he had so many merit badges he was Star in 4 months (He was a PL almost all along) and Life in 6 months. I don't know if he will reach Eagle, but he can't stop talking about Philmont and if thats the sum total of his scouting experience, the program did him proud.

The Boy Scout Wars? Why not?

We have 62 scouts in 8 patrols with 48 adults either committee or ASM, I dont have the exact breakdown of Committee of ASM status

The first summer "away" from home, he will have memories he will take with him always. Don't let nattering nabobs of negativity get you down

As my Latin Teacher always said, to understand Latin, you must Finnish Latin. He always wanted the home work done on time. I just checked my references, its funny how what you think you know just aint so (Biology Teacher said that) The original quote was Semper Ubi Sarpo Sub Ubi Perubique, over the years it became Sauna in my fevered brain which you can understand as both the Romans and the Finns gave great baths