OldGreyEagle

"Being able to deal with appointed leadership is an essential skill in the workplace, in the public and private sectors." I agree the above skill is needed in adult life, however the three aims of scouting are Character Developement, Personal Fitness and Citizenship. The reason the youth of the troop elect their leadership is to learn lessons in democracy. Do you vote for the charismatic kid who never gets anything done, or do you vote for the serious/semi serious kid who while he might not talk alot, he gets things done. It may take awhile and the youth may have to live with the consequences of a poor choice, but they are living out democracy.

How many times in these forums do we here someone say something about singing Kum Ba Yah around a campfire? Where does that song come from? How many of us have sung "Swing Low, Sweet Chariot", are these not two African American songs? I might be able to come up with more, but I dont think its fair to say there is no diversity in the song book. Diversity (IMHO) is about differences, sometimes very subtle. How many scouts are with with both birth parents, How many live with a single mom, a single dad, a grandparent, a guardian? How many have moved in from out of state, country, cross town? How many speak two languages, one at home, one at school/other that home? How many are adopted or in foster care? How many are a race other than white? How many are in Advanced Placement studies at School or are in Learning Support at School? How many are in the band, in sports or in the Theatre? Celebrating diversity recognizes we are all unique individuals with talents, gifts and challenges unique to us and no one else. It means regardless of the differences we have we can still come together and work on common goals to achieve results we all feel are important. And if we realize those in our community who are different from us can help us achieve common goals, maybe we can extend that thought internationally, (although both sides have to cooperate Natually) Diversity is learning to understand and respect differences while achieving results together. Anyway, thats my thoughts

I wouldnt mind the scouts doing the project as private citizens, but then again, I wouldnt count it as serice hours either

Congrats Purcelce, If you're not a Bear, your just another meal Oh Bother

GWD, being accredited would mean you follow the program, it means you are boy lead, for real, not because the adults say so. It would mean when a parent asked what the difference was between your troop and another one, you could say we are accredited and explain what that meant without saying anything disparaging about another troop.

A heck of a Scoutmaster is Gwd-Scouter As a woman leader she has silenced her doubters And it occurs to me Just where would that Troop be Had they decided to troop on with out'er

I would implement an idea I have broached here a few times, that of a "BSA Accredited Troop". This would be a totally volunteer program. Similar to hospital or school accreditation, the process would involve a site visit to an Unit's meeting, committee meeting and outing. The criteria would be that which is published in the BSA program. Therefore the SPL would be elected by the Troop and he would appoint his ASPL's, etc. Patrols would elect the Patrol Leader (sorry Kudu) and then the PL would appoint his APL. And so on. Once attained, a Unit would be reviewed yearly to maintain accredited status. A patch similar to the Honor unit patch used now would be available which would read "2007 BSA Accedited"

"implemented an unwritten and unannounced policy" Why am I reminded of Dean Vernon Wormer of Faber College putting Delta House on Double Secret Probation? If the key to running a successful organization is good communication, and good communication is defined as the accessibility of information, why would any one want to hinder that process?

Venturing go I With Green Shirt and the wide sky We have Girls, Do you?

Of all the time on Scouter Dot Com I have spent I consistently have one very special lament The discussions can get heated and furious But the one thing that I think is curious Is the speed which some call for others to get bent

I am confused Why would it make a difference how many units a "religion" chartered anyway? In the Troop I serve we are chartered by a Moravian Church, yet myself and a few leaders and scouts are Roman Catholic and we have had a Hindu and Jewish scout. I dont know the numbers, but I would think the number of scouts following a belief system would be a better measure of a belief systems' standing to get a religious award recognized than how many units that belief system charters. Most Troops I know are pretty diverse when it comes to what faith the boys follow. There are exception, but in my area I would say the religious make-up of most Troops is pretty "Diverse"

There is a fine scouter named Trevorum He is always the model of composure and decorum He was over heard one day That he wanted to limit his visits to only one a day On the Scouter dot Com Forum

ASM915, this is what BSA publication #33065, Scouting for Youh with Learing Disabilites says about your issue: Membership Requirements for Those Beyond the Normal Registration Age The chartered organizations using Scouting determine, with approval of appropriate medical authorities, whether a youth member is qualified to register (based on the above definitions) beyond the normal registration age. The Cubmaster's signature on the Application to Join a Pack, the Scoutmaster's signature on the Boy Scout Application,the Varsity Scout Coach's signature on the Varsity Scout Application,and the Advisor's or Skipper's signature on the Venturer Application, or the leader's signature on the unit's charter renewal application certify the approval of the chartered organization for the youth to register. The local council must approve these registrations on an individual basis. The medical condition of all candidates for membership beyond the normal registration age must be certified by a licensed health-care provider, or an evaluation statement must be certified by an educational administrator. Use the Personal Health and Medical Record form, No. 34412.Any corrective measures, restrictions, limitations, or abnormalities must be noted. In the case of candidates with mental retardation or emotional disturbance, their condition must be certified with a statement signed by a licensed psychologist or psychiatrist. Current health, medical, or certification records of all youth members with disabilities who are beyond the normal registration age are to be retained in the unit file at the council service center. It is an action taken taken by the CO, verified by a health care practioner/educational administrator with the Council's permission. There are a lot of people involved in the process, but it can be done. The District I serve has one such scout. Lisabob, you asked "When dealing with behavioral issues, how do we decide whether a condition is likely to be permanent?" the quick answer is, the BSA doesnt want you to decide, it wants a Health Care Practitioner/Educational Administrator to decide. Then the alternative requirements are not thought up by the unit, the unit may have suggestions, but the suggestions have to be approved by Council. This is to take pressure off the unit for being too "easy" or "hard", you get the qualified expert's opinion and approcal of the organization and follow it. Favoritism claims cannot then be made

I think I have commented on this before, but when I was taking my Powder Horn Course, one of the Crew I was in was a Wiccan. He was an adult advisor for his Council's OA and was quite spiritual. The second week end the Saturday is a campout and we asked him about being Wicca, he explained his beliefs and was quite feverent about them. I think a couple of the guys were ready to heckle him about it, but his sincerity and depth of emotion when talking about Wicca left us all with a favorable opinion of him and his beliefs. When I think about the forum, I think we have quite a few members who are in the Wicca/Pagan/that what Christians would call an Alternative Belief System who post frequently here.

I was always taught that carbon was good for your teeth and that since charcoal is a natural filter, that while camping eating a portion of carbonized food was healthy. Leastwise that what the adult who always burned his food said

Back when I was a youth, one of the fathers (well, my father) caught a possum and fattended his up and made roast possum on a camp out, tastes like the greasiest nastiest chicken/pork I have ever had

I understand scoutldr about the issue of the write up. Have you ever known someone that just inherently you know he deserves the Silver Beaver but you just can't get it for them? This guy I know is on the Executive Committee and has worked with ScoutReach for over 5 years. I think he is Silver Beaver or Whitney Young material, but when I start to fill out the paperwork, I can't fill most of it in. The forms are looking for dates and names of programs he ehlped with. I know he did those things, because I helped him after he asked me. I know they happened because of him, but I dont remember the dates. The same thing with the Disitrct Award of Merit, by the time you notice a guy who should be getting it, you cant track down what it is he has done, besides saying, alot of stuff and that doesnt cut it. I asked if the Council could help, and low and behold, nope they can't. To nominate someone for the awards it appears you have to keep track of everything they did from the time they entered scouting and I think thats unreasonable. A few years back a collusion was discovered in the Disitrict. Two scouters made a deal, you nominate me and I will nominate you. They exchanged information and both received the DAM. Wasnt till later the collusion was discovered. They "deserved" the award based on what they had done for the District, holding District position, running multiple District events, but still, shilling for each other seems so "unscoutlike" but then again, I am always amazed at the few Silver Beaver Dinners I have attended. They always have a few. "Bob joined scouting as a child, has been active in scouting for 50 years, 15 as a Scoutmaster, 10 at the District level and 10 at the Council level. Bob has 4 children both daughter are Girl Scout Gold Award recipients and his sons are Eagle. Bob is an Elder at his church and in his spare time runs a Soup Kitchen in the poorest part of town. We happily award Bob with the Silver Beaver" Then the next one goes "Frank came to the Council 4 years ago and took control of the Camping program. although never s scout, he has poured his own money into the Camps and has lead Capital Campaigns to secure the funds needed to maintain a high level camping experience for our youth. We happily award the Silver Beaver to Frank" Now, maybe Frank deserves the Silver Beaver, but so does Bob, about 30 years ago and every year since. What would happen if such adult recognitions just went away and we concentrated on the boys?

This just in Charles Simonyi, Ph.D., who is the next civilian to travel to space, has created a unique learning experience just for Girl Scouts and Boy Scouts. Dr. Simonyi is scheduled to launch on April 9, 2007, aboard Soyuz TMA-10 en route to the International Space Station, returning to Earth on April 20. He wants youth, especially Scouts, to learn from his experience. You can get a good idea of this program at: www.charlesinspace.com Click on "Kid's Space" and then the "Scouts" button. Part of the program is to offer a special commemorative patch to Scouts who complete an online trivia quiz on space. Once a Scout has the quiz, they print out a certificate they can use after April 1 to receive their patch from their Scout shop. Scout shops will be receiving the patches this month.

I know every camp is different, so that may be the biggest reason, but in the Camp that the Troop I serve patrons, the new scout program runs in the morning, in the afternoon, we have ASM's ready to go over what was taught and whether or not the scout knows his stuff. If not, its reviewed and then the scout demonstrates it. After its verified the skill is learned, its signed off. This doesnt take long as the New Scout program is pretty good, if it wasnt it would take much longer. If the scout is paying attention, lots of requirements are met. If the scout is active he will pick up a few ranks

I think the approach has to be one on one, each case separately. One could say that Trevorum was wrong as he did not seek Council permission and didnt have a certification of disability by an appropriately credentialed person. Then again what he does have is a scout working on his project, which I take to be the Eagle project. If Trevorum's troop would have held up the scouts advancement until he could pass the swim test, would that have led to the scout leaving scouting? No one knows, we know that the scout has advanced to Life and is working on Eagle so that has to be counted as a success, that the scout stayed in scouting. I think he did good.

In the Troop I serve we follow the information found in BSA publication #33065, Scouting for Youh with Learing Disabilites. The guideline cited also pertain to physical handicaps as well. I post this because future readers may benefit from seeing the BSA position: Many Scouts with disabilities may have difficulty completing the requirements to advance in Scouting However, it is important that these Scouts be treated as much like others as possible, therefore completing the requirements as stated in official Scouting literature should be a primary objective. It may take these Scouts a little longer than others, so using the intermediate recognition system with the leather thong and beads can be a real motivator. If a Scout's disability hinders him in completing a particular requirement or merit badge, he may apply for alternate requirements for Tenderfoot through First Class ranks, or for an alternate merit badge. Alternate Requirements for Tenderfoot, Second Class and First Class Ranks A Scout who is unable to complete any or all of the requirements for Tenderfoot, Second Class, or First Class. rank because of a physical or mental disability may complete alternative requirements if the following criteria are met: 1. The physical or mental disability must be of a permanent rather than a temporary nature. (Emphasis added) 2. A clear and concise medical statement concerning the Scout's disabilities must be submitted by a licensed health-care provider or an evaluation statement must be certified by an educational administrator. The medical statement must state the health-care provider's opinion that the Scout cannot complete the requirement(s) because of a permanent disability. (Emphasis added) 3. The Scout, his parents, or his leaders must submit to the council advancement committee a request that the Scout be allowed to complete alternate requirements for Tenderfoot, Second Class, or First Class rank. The request must explain the suggested alternative requirements in detail sufficient to allow the advancement committee to make a decision. The request must also include the medical statement required in item 2, above. 4. Before applying for alternate requirements, the Scout must complete as many of the standard Requirements as his ability permits. 5. The request for alternate requirements must be submitted to, and approved by, the local council prior to completing alternate requirements. 6. The alternate requirements must demand as much effort as the standard requirements. 7. When alternate requirements chosen involve physical activity, they must be approved by the licensed health-care provider. 8. The unit leader and any board of review must explain that to attain Tenderfoot, Second Class, or First Class rank, a candidate is expected to do his best in developing himself to the limit of his resources. 9. The request must be approved by the council committee responsible for advancement, utilizing the expertise of professional persons involved in Scouting for people with disabilities. The decision of the council committee should be recorded and delivered to the Scout and his leader. Alternate Merit Badges for the Eagle Scout Rank 1. By qualifying for alternate merit badges, a Boy Scout, Varsity Scout, or qualified Venturer who has a physical or mental disability may achieve Eagle Scout rank. (In order for a Venturer to be an Eagle Scout candidate, he must have achieved First Class rank as a Boy Scout or Varsity Scout.) This does not apply to individual requirements for merit badges. Merit badges are awarded only when all requirements are met as stated. 2. The physical or mental disability must be of a permanent, rather than a temporary, nature. (Emphasis added) 3. A clear and concise medical statement concerning the Scout's disabilities must be made by a licensed health-care provider, or an evaluation statement must be certified by an education administrator. (Emphasis added) 4. Before applying for an alternate Eagle Scout rank merit badge, the candidate must earn as many of the required merit badges as his ability permits. 5. The candidate must complete as many of the requirements of the required merit badges as his ability permits. 6. The Application for Alternate Eagle Scout Rank Merit Badges must be completed prior to qualifying for alternate merit badges. ([his application, No. 58-730,can be obtained from your local council.) 7. The alternate merit badges chosen must demand as much effort as the required merit badges. 8. When alternates chosen involve physical activity, the activities must be approved by the Scout's licensed health-care provider. 9. The unit leader and the board of review must explain that to attain the Eagle Scout rank, a candidate is expected to do his best in developing himself to the limit of his resources. . 10. The application must be approved by the council committee responsible for advancement, utilizing the expertise of professional persons involved in Scouting for people with disabilities. 11. The candidate's application for Eagle Scout rank must be made on the Eagle Scout Rank Applicant on, with the Application for Alternate Eagle Scout rank Merit Badges attached The point of all of the above is that when you change requirements for Ranks, its done because of a permanent disability verified by a health care practitioner (physician, Physician assistant, Nurse Practioner, etc) or certified by an Educational administrator and permission granted by the Council Advancement Committee Not sure how this is enforced however(This message has been edited by OldGreyEagle)

I didnt know you cant use a songs lyric in a Limerick But I promise on this topic not to have a fit But seeing as to rhyme things with Ozemu Is quite easy to do, And being from Down Under, I thought he would appreciate it

GWD, you will have the advantage of a "plant" this year. Your son the Summer Camp employee, maybe he can give you the scoop on how the First Year Program is working. WOuldnt it be funny if he is assigned to the First Year Program and your Troop blows it off? Just something to consider

The Troop I serve treats the axe yard the same as it would any hazardous area. You follow the rules or you don't come in. It would be the same at a Troop shoot, you follow the rules or you dont participate. None of the volunteers I work with want to explain to a parent in the Emergency Department how its not Jimmy's fault that Johnny got hurt because ADD is involved. NB My son, earned Eagle and is dyslexic and ADD, but he followed the troop rules and never took a medication holiday on a campout, heck he was having so much fun he wanted to enjoy it and learn stuff, stuff he knew he wouldnt if he didnt take his meds

LisaBob can tell Woodbadge opens doors for you But you must want it