OldGreyEagle

At this point I would like to touch on another point in the original post that no one has yet mentioned. dluders has posted that the scout's last campout was over 1.5 years ago and attends about 1/3 of the troop meetings. Apparently this violates the troop "policy" on attendance. Other posters have stated that National takes the view if you are registered you are active (one that I share). Now I have some questions. If the scout has not lived up to the Troops definition of "active" and has not for over 18 months, why was he re-chartered? If he was a good enough scout for his registration money to be accepted and have him counted a member of the Troop and the BSA, then he is good enough to advance in rank, there is no "probationary" status in Boy Scouts. If you want to enforce your Troop attendance policy, then you must do so at charter time and drop all scouts who dont measure up. If you recharter one scout who hasnt fulfilled your own policy you have indicated that exceptions may be made and then you have to be able to prove the scout you recharted had an exceptional reason and why the current scouts in question situation is not as dire and you can see where I am going with this. dluders says the scout in question did a great job as chaplain's aide and then says that he "supposes" that "TECHNICALLY" he fulfilled the POR. A scout either meets the requirement of the POR or he doesnt. If the Bachelor of Arts degree requires 100 semester hours, I dont know of any student who would say he wanted to earn 110 semester hours before he would accept his degree since he was taught to always give 110%. I dont know of any school that would allow him to do so. Mention was also made that the scout in question approached the scoutmaster and committee with an idea for an Eagle project and that while eyebrows were raised, his project was approved. Where is the logic in that? If we know that a scout can't handle a project, we allow him to go ahead anyway? Was there any counseling done? Support given? Did anyone take him aside and explain the concerns? Is this what we do? Approve projects for scouts we know can't do the job and then stand aside and cluck our tongues when the job isnt done and we say we knew it all along? Where is the logic in that? I beleive it is one thing to have scouts learn from failure, that experience is a powerful learning tool, but to purposely set a scout up to fail is not the way to go. Now, dluders, I dont mean to berate you, you came to the forum for opinions and you have received them. The situation you describe is often talked about here and my response would be the same to anyone asking the same question.

Not to belabor the point, I have a question that has yet to be asked. If there is an issue with the scout, why is he working on an Eagle project? The scoutmaster and a committee member had to have met with him and approved the project, the scout has met with the sponsoring organization and received District approval for the project and he might not be allowed to attain the Eagle rank? When is this going to be brought to the youth's attention?

In another thread, the positions of Librarian and Bugler was referred to as a "token" position. Any position, whether bugler or historian or Senior Patrol Leader can be a token position if the adults allow it. If you dont give the youth clear and concise direction based on well communicated expectations, then it is the adults who have failed. If you dont evaluate and give feedback to the youth while in their position, and hold them to an expected level of performance then you have failed. If you have a token position in a troop, its because the adults allow it, the youth did not turn the position into one of tokenism (and not a Hobbit either)

The funding of an Eagle project is the scouts' choice. If Dad covers it all or the family contributes nothing is of no consequence to the project. It's not where the funds come from that make an Eagle Project, its the Leadership provided by the Eagle candidate in the planning and execution of the project

If the DOD looks upon the Jamboree as an excellent training opportunity then all things they do is regarded as training. While cookie dough may seem an extravagance, I didnt realize that Army cooks only prepared mere subsistence meals for refugee's or Army encampments. Making cookies for 40,000 may be just the experience needed for the cooks to understand the logisitics of food preparation

As it appears that the 2010 National Jamboree will not allow Ventureres as participants, what would you like to see in a National Venturing event? Where would you like it? What would you like to see in it? Blue Sky it

I was talking to a National Venturing executive a a few weeks ago at a College of Commissioner's I was at, Venturers are not at present expected to participate, they continue to be allowed to staff. The only explanation is that the Jamboree is an Boy Scout event. It wasnt Bill Evans, it was the other guy whose name I cant come up with

A scout who is a Crew member and registered in a Troop may be elected to the OA, as a member of that Troop. A Scout who is a member of the OA and becomes a Crew Member may continue membership in the OA if they drop the Troop registration and only continue in the Crew. The key is being elected by the Troop the scout is registered in when he is eligible. Now, I used to be all upset and crotchety that the OA wouldnt allow Venturing Crew to have elections, but I have a different feeling now. If a Venturing Crew member could be an OA member, you are right, there would have to be some sort of requirements set. The nights of camping would have to stay, I dont think anyone would dispute to get in the Boy Scout Honor Camping Society you would have to camp. Then we could say earn the Outdoor Bronze or some portion of it. A youth must be 14 to join a Crew (and out of 8th grade). To reach the requirement of Camping would take at least a year, maybe 18 months. And then there are the recognitions to earn so lets say that by the time a Crew member can be elected, he is pretty near or at 16 years old. Its just what every 16 year old wants, to be in an initiation rite with 12 and 13 year old boy scouts. There may be some youth that this doesnt bother, but I am not sure it would appeal to the majority. Then there is the Coed issue. Would the young ladies of the crew be eligible as well? We already tell the female members of the Crews that they are equal participants in the Crew, only they can't earn merit badges or Eagle. Now we are also going to say you can't be elected into the OA as well? The young ladies cant be a member of the Camping Honor Society? So, do we let the ladies in?, I am not advocating that at all. Just what a bunch of 16 year old girls want to do is play with a bunch of 12-13 year old boys. OK, maybe the girls can do it. If so, I give it 3-5 years before all the elected positions in the Lodges and Chapters are girls. I say this from my experince in Venturing. Let Boy Scouts be Boy Scouts and Venturing Crews be Venturing Crews. There is no need to mix them into the OA. Then again, thats my opinion I could be wrong

Local, I guess it depends if the scout is truly disruptive and disrespectful because he wills it or if his behavior is disruptive and he appears disrespectful because he has ADD.

I think most have hit the high points, the passages taken from the Advancement Committee Guide Policies and Procedures book reads the following on the topics of Past and Multiple credit: PAST CREDIT All requirements for all awards require Venturers to do work as Venturers. As an example, they may have earned the Backpacking merit badge as a Boy Scout, but must do all that is required in the Ranger backpacking elective while registered as a Venturer. Some requirements may require some type of certification such as Scuba Open-Water Diver, American Red Cross Standard First Aid, or BSA Lifeguard. This certification may be used regardless of when it was earned as long as the certification is still current. MULTIPLE CREDIT Venturers may receive multiple credit for requirements in Venturing, such as using an American Red Cross Emergency Response course for credit in the Ranger first aid course requirement and first aid elective, and the Silver first aid requirement. However, Venturers may not receive multiple credit when required to do a tabletop display or presentation. These must be done for each requirement that requires one. Members who are simultaneously members of a Boy Scout troop may receive credit for work toward Boy Scout advancement and Venturing advancement. An example would be getting dual credit for hikes for the Backpacking merit badge and for the Ranger backpacking elective, or for a conservation project required in Boy Scouts and in Venturing. Any male Venturer who has achieved the First Class rank as a Boy Scout in a troop or Varsity Scout in a team may continue working toward the Star, Life, and Eagle Scout ranks up to his 18th birthday. He must meet the requirements as prescribed in the Boy Scout Handbook and the current Boy Scout Requirements book. Position of responsibility requirements may be met by the Venturer serving as president, vice president, secretary, or treasurer in his crew, or as boatswain, boatswain's mate, yeoman, purser, or storekeeper in his ship. The Scoutmaster conference will be conducted by the Advisor or Skipper. As the Venturer meets the requirements for the Star and Life ranks, a board of review is conducted by the crew or ship committee. The Eagle board of review follows the procedure established by the local council. Sea Scout advancements are approved by the ship's quarterdeck. In the case of the Quartermaster Award, the application is reviewed by the ship's committee with a member of the district advancement committee as chairman. Since the Quartermaster Award is a Venturing recognition, it may be earned by any young man or young woman registered as a Venturer. All work on all Venturing advancement must be completed prior to the young person's 21st birthday.

Whats worse is that I knew that Michael J Pollard who went on to fame and fortune in the movie Bonnie and Clyde was the lead male kid in that episode

The Crew I serve has a tradition of working a week a summer for Habitat for Humanity. Now, here is a group that is unabashedly Christian, they present each new owner with a Bible and yet they fly under the religious discrimination radar. Taken from their website is the following: "Habitat for Humanity International is a nonprofit, ecumenical Christian organization dedicated to eliminating substandard housing and homelessness worldwide and to making adequate, affordable shelter a matter of conscience and action. Habitat is founded on the conviction that every man, woman and child should have a simple, decent, affordable place to live in dignity and safety. Habitat has an open-door policy: All who desire to be a part of this work are welcome, regardless of religious preference or background. Habitat for Humanity has always had a policy of building with people in need regardless of race or religion, and we welcome volunteers and supporters from all backgrounds." Could the BSA make the same statement, exchanging Christian for some other word I can't think of right now that ecompasses all religions, and be ok? Just a thought

we have had several incarnations, they were/are Vultures (so named as we never cooked for ourselves, only eating what the patrols cooked) Yell: Dead Meat, Dead Meat, Carry on (Carrion) The Eyes Yell: We are watching you (from the movie Congo) The Parents Yell: It costs how much?

I am looking for jokes about Boy Scouts or have scouting as a theme. I did the Google thing and have seen what is to be had that route, I was wondering if anyone had some one liners that can't be found online, anyone...anyone...anyone?

I think to a large degree much of what goes on today, has always gone on, we just didn't know about it. 50-25 years ago we wouldnt have known about the Virginia Tech shootings until the nightly news or the next days newspaper. Now we can visit Facebook and MySpace pages and virtually "be" with the students while the events unfolds. The D-Day invasion was carried out with news correspondents but they had little means to convey the story back home. Today we live telecasts from battle fields while the shooting is going on. Children were abducted 50 years ago, but as a nation we didnt know about each one. They didnt become the national stories that "caught on videotape" events now become. We didn't have Amber Alerts back then, but they were as needed back then as they are today, they just didnt exist, but the reasons for them did. We talk about how much more violent our society is today, how much more violent our youth are and how dangerous our schools have become yet in 1957 when "Westside Story" debuted, it was touted as being a breakthrough in that it was telling the "real story" of teenage angst, how many youth die in the story? That was 50 years ago. I think people dont behave that much differently as 50 years ago, I think our knowledge of what goes on is at a higher level and that is the difference. Now, the drop in volunteerism? Do we ask people for help? Do we let our children know its ok to help others? What are we teaching them? The local school system has a high graduation requirement of 100 service hours from the time the youth leave 8th grade until graduation. 100 hours spent in the service of others. They are always being sued by parents who say the school cant force my child to learn the benefits of service. Those students do graduate but cant attend the graduation ceremony.(This message has been edited by OldGreyEagle)

Sorry Ed, I have expounded my view on this topic multiple times, it's time for fresh thoughts something you, I and Merlyn don't have on this topic.

Ok, Ed and Merlyn, I think you have worn out your arguments on this thread. If you have anything new fine, if you are going to continue to fight about whether or not its proper to have a School sponsor a unit, do it offline.

Way back I heard an excellent quote about how a leader doesnt have to be proficient at every skill their company requires. It ran something along the lines of Lee Iacocca never bolted on a bumper, but he sure can run a car company. There is a story about Albert Einstein, he was being interviewed and the reporter asked Mr Einstein if he knew his own phone number. Mr Einstein laughed and said, no, he didn't. The reporter then asked what the smartest man in the world would do if he needed to call home. Mr Einstein produced a local phone book and pointed out where his phone number was in the book. He then told the reporter, its not important to KNOW everything, its important to be able to find what you need when you want. If you provide the program the kids want and fund, it doesnt matter if you do it all, all that matters is that you made it so. The Venturing Program realizes this. The Venturing Program makes liberal use of "consultants", technically qualified experts who bring their expertise to the Crew. They arent registered, they help the Crew with an event or a series of events, no one can be all things to all people

Crewmomma welcome to the campfire and I have a comment, but first, was the campfire on an established campfire ring/location or was the campfire location the first time that area had "hosted" a campfire?

I am not sure if this qualifies, but the OA chapter in the council does a prety good job of reaching out http://www.main.oa-bsa.org/programs/scoutreach/scoutreachnq.htm

Gee SR540Beaver you may be on to something, since punk and EMO girls love to wear cub uniform tops, why not open cub advancement to college age girls as well, after all they can be in Venturing, why not Cubs as well?

the answer is no, they can't Take a look at Supplemental Training Modules, Merit badge Counselors Instructors Guide found http://www.scouting.org/boyscouts/supplemental/18-125/index.html you will find these items in a highlighted section Fast Facts for the Merit Badge Counselor A merit badge counselor can counsel any Scout, including his own sonalthough this is discouraged in order to offer a Scout the chance to meet a diverse group of outstanding adults. A counselor may be certified in unlimited merit badge subjects, but he or she must be approved for each one. There is no limit on the number of merit badges that a counselor may counsel with one Scout. However, the Scout will benefit the most from working with a variety of outstanding adults. A merit badge counselor may limit his or her services to one unit but still must be approved by the council advancement committee. Scoutmasters and assistant Scoutmasters are not automatically approved as merit badge counselors. Group instruction is acceptable, but each Scout must be tested and passed individually. There is no time limit for completion of merit badges, but all work on merit badges must be completed before the Scout's 18th birthday. So, no they (the District) is not suposed to limit the numbers of badges counseled or the number of badges a scout earns from a counselor. (This message has been edited by OldGreyEagle)

Actually I see two issues here. The first of course is the length of the knife question. There is no BSA policy on length of knives, the only statement on knives is in the Guide to Safe Scouting and it says: "A sharp pocketknife with a can opener on it is an invaluable backcountry tool. Keep it clean, sharp, and handy. Avoid large sheath knives. They are heavy and awkward to carry, and unnecessary for most camp chores except for cleaning fish. Since its inception, Boy Scouting has relied heavily on an outdoor program to achieve its objectives. This program meets more of the purposes of Scouting than any other single feature. We believe we have a duty to instill in our members, youth and adult, the knowledge of how to use, handle, and store legally owned knives with the highest concern for safety and responsibility. Rememberknives are not allowed on school premises, nor can they be taken aboard commercial aircraft." So, BSA policy does not talk about the length of a knife, it talks about knowing how to use, handle, and store legally owned knives. Now that the BSA is out of the way, a scout also has to be cognizant of local and state laws and if Camping on private property (oh, say like a Boy Scout Camp) what the internal, private policies are for the property. If you can't have a knife longer than X, then you cant have a knife longer than X. I guess it is incumbent on the Camp/Council to have its rules accesible so out of towners know the local rules. Next issue is the "cut a corner off my Totin' Chip ", I would love to ask the person where in the BSA does it state that such a practice is acceptable. Can it happen? Certainly, it happens all the time, but I love when people come up with non-existent rules (length of knife)and non-existent "punishments" (cutting a corner off totin' chip)

I have seen a plethora of hypothesis lauding an extremely high level of erudition And I have spent a myriad number of years to bring my edification to fruition But frankly I dont know Why it would seem to be so Common sense is inversely proportional to the amount paid for tuition

Personally I wonder if Harry Haenderson's Scoutmaster is John Lithgow You know while Sasquatch stew will feed 30 scouts, if you have 32 scheduled for dinner you can stretch the stew by adding a rabbit although some people object to finding a hare in their Sasquatch stew