OldGreyEagle

In the District I serve, the Fall Camporee has always (last 10 years) been run by a Troop. We sorta take turns and work along with the DE (when we have one) to draw up a budget and get checks lined up. One of the interesting advantges to posting here is to see how other people do things, AvidSM doesnt know why a troop would host a Camporee and I havent seen it done any other way. Now, when I say a Troop hosts the Disitrct Camporee, it picks the date and location and establishes a theme and then requests go out to other troops to help staff stations or what ever is needed. For the upcomming Fall Camporee another Troop is hosting it (The Troop I serve hosted it last year)and I have already been tapped as a Hobo Stew Taster/Judge and will also be judging the Saturday night Campfire SKits. (Bonus points to any skit I havent seen before)

Lets see, we are an uniformed organization that struggles to get its' adult members in uniform, and wear it correctly, we struggle with whether or not adult leaders should be trained or not, mostly not because if the time requirement to be trained and now we are going to add that the scout leader has to meet physical performance standards I agree adult scouters need to live the Oath and Code, I am not sure this is the time to be implementing physical performance standards.

I may have had an epiphany on this topic which explains the heretofore caustic coments. If a scout gets a POR, say Quartermaster (QM) and really doesnt show much enthusiasm for the job in the first month, and the Scoutmaster talks to him about it and the scout still shows the same level at the second month mark. Then the Scoutmaster steps up his discssion, and the scout starts to get involved, but not really by much. At the third month mark, the Scoutmaster sees the improvement in the scout and beleives it worthwhile to continue working with the scout. After talking with the scout, the Scoutmaster and scout set out a schedule for what needs to be done when and how and to what level. Well, the work does get done, but not on schedule but something in the scoutmaster tells him the boy is progressing. At the fifth month anniversary, the scout is performing at a level that is acceptable, but the expectations of the job is that this level of performance should have been occuring since the second month. The scoutmaster now faces a really prickly choice, if he leaves the scout in the position for another month, the scout will have been in the position for 6 months and technically complete his POR, but he has only really been preforming at the expected level for a month. If the scoutmaster "fires" the scout from the position of Quartermaster, it could end up destroying the work done between the scout and scoutmaster for the past 5 months, sour the scout on scouting, etc. But, then again, if the scoutmaster doesnt do something, then the other boys in the troop know that to get credit for advancement, they can take the first 3 months of the POR off, start to work a little in month 4 and then really pay attention for the last 6-8 weeks or so, and that is not the message the scoutmaster wants to send. So, what can be done? What about at the 5th month anniversary the scoutmaster tell the scout, that he is proud of the job that the scout is now doing and he knows that the scout had a rocky start and that while its great the performance level is high, the scoutmaster needs to see the current level of performance for 4 more months. The scout can either accept these terms or resign his POR. This way the scout has a choice, he can stay in the position that he has grown into or he can choose to leave it. He learns consequences of actions. The scoutmaster can demonstrate to the troop that you do have to perform for your POR and not just the last few weeks. And, as all these reviews and discussions are documented, if the scout appeals anything, the background is set.

So he was good enough to register, but he is not good enough to keep?

He's been alive forever, and he wore the very first thong He keeps his thighs together but we don't know for how long He is Ed, and he wears a thong CHORUS He wears the thong that make the whole world sing He wears the thong of love and special things He wears the thong that make the young girls cry He wears the thong, He wears the thong

lets see, you go to the web page of the National Organization website and then find a document titled: Rank Advancement and the Board of Review Process: Frequently Asked Questions with the introduction that reads: Unit leaders and other Scouters often ask the same questions about the rank advancement program and board of review process. Here is a quick reference guide of answers to some of those frequently asked questions and then the question is whether or not its Official BSA policy? I admit its not in bold print, but here, have percentage requirements in your troop. Deny a kid Eagle because he didnt make "enough" campouts and then when they ask you if you have ever seen this page, what do you say(This message has been edited by OldGreyEagle)

I don't recall seeing anything in the FCFY literature that I have seen that says that scouts must receive recognition for achieving or learning something they really have not mastered. I do see references that a troop should have a program that is structured so that an active scout can attain first class in a year Have never seen mention that requirements dont have to be met

What drives me crazy is the hat set just askew off the face, not a lot, just enough to drive me crazy. Then just as I am reaching to center the cap, I think of my early 70's wardrobe, 3 polyester leisure suits in colors not found in nature, a synthetic shirt that weighed less than one ounce and stacked leather heels for Friday night and a pair of platform shoes on Saturday with a space for goldfish and all of a sudden, that baseball hat set slighty askew doesnt look so bad after all. Then again, speaking of The Carpenters Think, Think a Thong, Think it simple Think it strong Don't worry if its not good enough for anyone else to see Just think, think a thong (Kiddie Chorus) La, La, lalala, la la la la lala, la la la la la (now try to get back to work)

So. Ed, you follow all the rules of Leviticus?

I said I would do the same thing on an earlier post, then at least the council would not have been embarassed at National. When the BSA website says: "However, unit leaders must ensure that he is fulfilling the obligations of his assigned leadership position. If he is not, then they should remove the Scout from that position." I guess that means they mean it, who knew?

So, as far as I can tell, Episcopalians follow the bible yet they allow homosexual clergy and others point out the bible says that Homosexuality is immoral So who is right?

So who is honored when everyone sceams "death to the infidels" and blindly charges in to kill the others?

patently emotional response now edited (This message has been edited by OldGreyEagle)

My first thought was that of the dispute between the Bu!kais and Kla!klalas but that may be an oversimplification. Let me see, Ed sees homosexuality as a sin, TJ sees it as who he is and if I am tolerant of other peoples views, then I accept Ed as having his opinion and TJ as having his, but that is the crux. Let is say that Ed favors capital punishment (only saying) and TJ is opposed, how is a compromise worked out? Can I respect both opinions? Lets say Bob prefers a democractic republic and Paul favors a Monarchy, can the two peacefully exist in the same society? When the Consitution was assembled, it took many years and many many many compromises. States with large populations and those will much less argued over representation and so we ended up with a bicameral legislative branch, states have congressman whose number are based on population and senators, two to a state. The series of checks and balances was said to be ingenious at the time and its worthiness has stood the test of time. But where are we now? In the most tolerant society (leastwise I have been told we are) in the world, there are words that cannot be spoken and would "All in the Family" and "Maude" be allowed on TV if they were produced today and would "History of the World. Part 1" or "Blazing Saddles" be shown at the multiplex? As we say we are marching towards a more tolerant society, I feel more constrained in expression than ever...

I think the 13th point of the scout law should be a scout is asexual... I wouldnt want Tim discussing homosexuality with cub scouts anymore than I would want merit badge counselors regaling scouts with tales of heterosexual exploits. But the central question I asked and I wandered from ( I admit) is the reconciliation between respecting one religion's belief that homosexuality is wrong and another's that it's ok.

I suppose "gay" leaders chosen by their CO's would eventually get around to be on District Committees and how I would feel about that would pretty much depend on how that leader did his/her job.

Where I live, just about everyone on the District Committee is from a Troop, I am not sure I know anyone not in a troop of some kind, but even then, if you are not affiliated with a Troop and register with a District, then you follow the registering organizations rules. As far as University of Scouting and all other training, its troop adults that present, how is it done by you?

It's been awhile sice we went down this path, so I guess it was time to do it again... I understand what Brent says about his church teachings about homosexuality and I want to respect his views and support him... Then there are churhes that teach that homosexuality is not immoral and even have members of their clergy living with a same sex partner, and I want to respect those views and support them as well... And then I see by doing so, I am attempting to straddle an abyss which has no bottom so, if a Chartering Organization is fine with having a gay leader, and they sign-off on the adult, are they not responsible if a crime is committed? For the legal Eagles of the crowd, if the BSA says all responsibility of choosing adult members of the Troops is held by the Chartering Organizations, can the BSA be held blameless if an avowed gay leader molests a boy? Why isn't this a CO thing? We allow CO's to determine the role of others types of adults in troops, why not this one? If a troop has a known gay leader, then if the troop flourishes then the CO was right about knowing the make-up of its community. If the Troop flounders and fails as no parent wishes their child to be a member in such a troop then market forces will fold the troop. Either way the local community gets to decide what it wants. If the gay leader molests a scout, the avenue is clear, its the CO approved him, (or her) that becomes responsible.

TQM is a system that works, but it only works if the Top Level Executives embrace it and don't abandon it when a "crisis" hits. I worked in two hospitals and was part of the TQM implemetation process in both. Both times the employees were reluctant to beleive anyone in upper management cared about their ideas and both times the employees embraced the concepts after buying into the concepts based on upper administration claims. Unfortunately, both times the upper administration lost interest/focus and in a few years it was business as usual, the only problem was the rank and file had been innoculated against such glitzy programs and had very much a "fool me once shame on you, fool me twice shame on me" attitude. Morale was worse because the employees felt they had been taken in when they were suspicious from the start

In a program run by volunteers, there is going to be a very disparate level of training and competency from one troop to another. When I joined the Troop I serve, we had a Pediatrician for a Committee Chair (she makes most trips) and a Dentist (we refer to them as our Paradox). We also had the Deputy Chief of the regional SAR as an Assistant Scoutmaster, he used to bring his dogs with him as training and was an EMT, High Angle Rescue Certified, Fast Water Rescue Certified and a few other certified as well. As he transitioned out of the troop we added an Intensive Care Physicians Assistant and for a brief time had an ED physician as an asst scoutmaster. Throw in a few nurses and a Fire Dept Lieutenant and I would match our adults training and competency against any another unit, and even some ED's I have been to. Personally I am an X-Ray Tech, certifed in CPR, but unless there is a radiology unit handy in the woods, I wouldnt be of much real use The problem is, this is just one unit and I in no way beleive that every unit should/can/might have this individuals and while I like the current situation, I have no idea what the composition of the adults will be in 3 years. So, what qualifies us to take boys on a hike? The fact the Chartering Organization allowed us to be placed on the units charter is the basic answer. Now, where will that hike occur? In the 100 mile wilderness of the Appalachian Trail in Maine or the local county nature preserve? Beavah has used the mantra we should respect other adults who volunteer their time to the organization and have faith in them and their abilities to do the right thing by the boys and always have their best interest at heart. This may be one of those times we trust each other

our Council Advancement guy has said on more than one occasion that you can have an Eagle Board of Review even if the scoutmaster doesnt sign.

The District Advancement (or Council) Committee approved this project as well? Speaking from what was presented, it was a very good idea, well executed but not along the lines that the District I reside in would call an Eagle project

So, who are you? 1 to change the light bulb and to post that the light bulb has been changed. 14 to share similar although unique experiences of changing light bulbs and how the light bulb could have been changed differently. 7 to caution about the dangers of changing light bulbs. 27 to point out spelling/grammar errors in posts about changing light bulbs. 53 to flame the spell checkers. 41 to correct spelling/grammar flames. 6 to argue over whether it's "lightbulb" or "light bulb"...another 6 to condemn those 6 as anal-retentive 2 industry professionals to inform the group that the proper term is "lamp". 15 know-it-alls who claim *they* were in the industry, and that "light bulb" is perfectly correct. 156 to email the participant's ISPs complaining that they are in violation of their "acceptable use policy". 109 to post that this group is not about light bulbs and to please take this discussion to a lightbulb group 203 to demand that cross posting to hardware forum, off-topic forum, and lightbulb group about changing light bulbs be stopped. 111 to defend the posting to this group saying that we all use light bulbs and therefore the posts *are* relevant to this group. 306 to debate which method of changing light bulbs is superior, where to buy the best light bulbs, what brand of light bulbs work best for this technique, and what brands are faulty. 27 to post URL's where one can see examples of different light bulbs. 14 to post that the URL's were posted incorrectly and then post the corrected URL's. 3 to post about links they found from the URL's that are relevant to this group which makes light bulbs relevant to this group. 33 to link all posts to date, quote them in their entirety including all headers and signatures, and add "Me too". 12 to post to the group that they will no longer post because they cannot handle the light bulb controversy. 19 to quote the "Me too's" to say "Me three". 4 to suggest that posters request the light bulb FAQ. 44 to ask what is a "FAQ". 4 to say "didn't we go through this already a short time ago?" 143 to say "do a Google search on light bulbs before posting questions about light bulbs". 1 forum lurker to respond to the original post 6 months from now and start it all over again....

If you would have told me back in 1996 that a book series, book series mind you, would captivate teens all around the world and teens would line up at midnight to buy a book, and not one based on pictures, I would have reserved you a space at your local looney bin. The final Harry Potter book is upon us with record sales, all in a media that many thought dead. The Potter books are not short stoties, they are long involved epics proving that there is a market for items that challenge and delight youth. So, the question is, are we challenging and delighting our youth? Think of the iPods and Game Boys that went untouched while the final Potter book was read. The MTV channels unwatched all because the regular viewer was reading a book. Many times posters say that todays youth don't want to be challenged, they are tied to their electronics, Potter proves otherwise, they can be reached if the right chord is struck. May we all rise to the challenge

Actually, the low pants thing has just about ridden its crest of popularity and may moving out of sight (as it were) By making a law against it, it just brings this topic back to the youth's attention. I may be inclined to do the plumber's thing myself if I lived there