OldGreyEagle

Gotta love To Kill A Mockingbird, after all, how many classic books have a "Scout" as a main charactor?

Yeah, I could close the thread and the next one that Ed and Merlyn begin to go at it and then the next, and the next and the next We could put both Ed and Merlyn on Sabbatical but I have no reason to beleive that when they returned either would behave in a different manner We could excuse them from all future participation in the forum but that would place them in the same category of a few miscreants such as Juris, WHEELER and a few others and as frustrating Ed and Merlyn can be, they just aren't in that league So, for the present I think Lisabob's idea is best, read around these guys, if I get enough PM's requesting other action, it will be considered

Comming from?

Well clearly my idea didnt work, any suggestions on how to stem the Ed/Merlyn smackdown?

Ed, I can't say I agree alot with what Merlyn says or thinks but I would like to know where he has espoused removing God from everywhere. He doesnt want public money spent advocating any religious belief or to have governmental units chartering scout units (charter as in run/own them, they can meet in the facilities following the same rules that any other organization follows) Merlyn in this thread has said that he has no problem with private citizens putting up Menorahs or Nativity scenes so I am not sure how you can claim he wants to remove God from everywhere. Merlyn, you are obviously a smart guy, who is consistent in his message. You don't want public money supporting anything religious. But I have to ask why such a smart guy gets entangled with spitting contests with Ed when clearly by now you know the route that such contests go. You have mentioned many times that Ed can't learn, why do you persist in trying to learn him? I commented to one poster that at times I wished you guys would start acting like Christians, but I am not sure that is the answer, then I thought maybe if I asked you to act like scouts, but that's not the answer either. How about sticking to the topic at hand and leaving out the personal jabs?

It used to be that the forum was full of people calling other people Nazi'z or accusing people of using "Gestapo" tactics. So now we will call each other Terrorists or accuse each other of using terroristic tactics. Can we stop with the emotional platitudes? I was trying to explain how not mentioning God implies an endorsement of Atheism, but instead I got off on a side trip. If a student does well on a test at school is it ok for their Hindu teacher to tell him, "Praise Vishnu you did well?" Or his Islamic teacher to say "Praise Allah you did well?" or his Buddhist teacher to say "Praise Buddha you did well?" or his Christian teacher to say "Praise Jesus you did well? and his Atheist teacher to say, "Hey Bobby, you did well? Are not all a method of congratulating the student, while also advocating a religious point of view? Would anyone have a problem with a student hearing any of the above? (disclaimer, if my posts offends any belief section, that was not intended)

IF public money has been used to provide a praying spot for followers of Islam, and a Christian Group also wished a praying spot for those students, would not the ACLU be the people to contact? or to take the prayer spot away from the followers of Islam? Please understand, I do not detract from Islam,I respect it as a faith I just want to understand what is going on

I wish I could express myself better, as I don't think what I am trying to communcate is comming across so rather than continue, I will just change the subject, well at least add another variant into the discussion and I will need Merlyn to help. I recently heard about a public school in San Diego that has time set aside for Islamic students to pray and the school has a program either promoting Islam or at least making information about Islam available to other students, during school time. Now, I heard this on a conservative talk show while radio surfing so I dont know how much credence to give this, but what have you guys heard about this? I think the issue was that moslems were getting the time to pray while christians could not. Again, I admit my source is suspect, I would like to know the truth.

If I could horn in on the playful banter between Ed and Merlyn... Merlyn, you stated that you weren't aware of any school that promoted Atheism. It does seem that your goal is the removal of all govermental unit support for religious content. If I am wrong, please correct me. The issue I have is if all religious content is removed, then there is the implied endorsement of Atheism, the abscence of religion. This may be one of those non winnable situations. I would like to see religious content in schools, but realize a class of Americans could have Christians, Jewish, Islamic, Wiccan, Hindu, Budist, etc. members and I see the problems associated with including everyone in a religious service. So, I dont have an answer, but can you see how having no religious content in a school can be associated with advocating Atheism?

Mr Roberts,... (sorry I had a flashback and thought I was swirling three balls bearings in my hand, or were those walnuts?) Anyway, I would never think of not having a 100 percent trained adult leadership core, both committee and scoutmasters. I dont see how anyone can work and support a program that they know nothing about. Work with your Committee and Assts to be sure you all share a common vision of what you want the troop to be and as the troop develops, be ready to let the troop evolve into what the youth want, within the context of scouting and BTW, have fun!

Remember Crews can be all male, all female or Coed, they dont have to be coed, then again maybe thats not what you meant

heck there I was at Camp Minsi on friday night, missed Joe Walsh but on Saturday we had the Venturing Cardboard Boat Regatta, cardboard boats do float, but you cant build them in a week or less. Camp Minsi is close to Mt Pocono. Power Play What gives you the right hey you To stand there and tell me what to do Tell me who gave you the power To stop me from livin' like I do Remember if you plan to stay Those who give can take away Don't bite the hand that feeds you Just one time I'd like to be somewhere where None of your clever lies fill the air I'm tired of your frozen smile and your voice of tin Just might all gang up on you Turn the knob and do you in Remember if you plan to stay Those who give can take away. Don't bite the hand that feeds you This never ending power play "Tween Jealous greed and vicious hate Is grinding us like giant millstones But it can't be our only fate It's time we got our heads together And let'em know that we're awake Those in the dark, you know they're no longer blind They're breakin' from your strangle hold on their minds Those that can see don't need no one to cross the street Be careful who you're pushin' round They just might find you obsolete Remember if you plan to stay Those who give can take away. Don't bite the hand that feeds you (This message has been edited by OldGreyEagle)

And vulgar unrefined louts are destined to the dregs of society, but what can you do?

So many comments, and so little time... First, as I am sure we are all aware, you can't make attending a scoutmaster conference for advancement in full field uniform manditory as that is adding to the rules. Any appeal based on that would be upheld quickly. Now, as far as only doing them on campouts, I sorta see the logic in it, it's to encourage attendance on campouts. The real answer to flagging attedance on events is not to require attendance, its to make the campouts good enough the kids want to attend, not make them attend. What do I think? I think its wrong, but I understand why its done. Perhaps when a scout asks for a Scoutmaster conference for Adanvacement the scoutmaster could say sure, I'll put you done for the XXX Trip. If the scout is not planning on attending this is the time to say so. If the reason the scout cannot attend is because a brother or sister is getting married or something like that, an alternative date can be worked out. If the answer is I am not comming because its boring, sounds like a scoutmaster conference for a reason other than advacement just broke out. It may be better to ask youth questions rather than tell them

Not that I would ever disagree with anyone on this forum, but I think to start a troop you need a committed individual to Scouting to be the scoutmaster, it doesnt matter his age, as long as he is dedicated to providing Scouting to the boys, although it would be a good idea for him to have a scouting background, but in light of the recent thread on whether or not Eagles make good adult leaders, I dont see it as a necessity. I would not want to limit interested people nor would I want them to be untrained. The scoutmaster and committee members should all commit to be trained. It would be best if all committee members would take the Scoutmaster training and the scoutmaster take the COmmittee training (of course so do the committee members) the idea is to let everyone see where they fall in in the set up of the unit. I am not sure why anyone would want to have committee members who have no concept of what they are supposed to be doing supporting a program they know nothing about, but there are plenty of ways of doing things It may be a good idea to have some initiative "games" amoung the boys at an outing for them to decide amoung themselves who is the best choice to be their leader. (This message has been edited by OldGreyEagle)

its the Rapture of the Deep World Tour 2006-2007

I didnt know where else to post this, and I had to share. Last night my son and I went to Bethlehem's Muskikfest. The star atraction was a concert by Deep Purple and John Kay and Steppenwolf. John Kay has always been a hero of mine, born during the last years of WWII in a region that would become East Germany, his father died in action against the Russians the month before he was born. He and mother and stepfather made their way first to Toronto and then he ended up in Los Angelos and the rest is history. He announced that this is his last year for touring and at age 63 I can understand it but his music has ben an influence on me. His music has always been a balance of political comments and commercial success. If you get a chance, take a look at the lyrics of "Monster", released in 1970, it speaks also to today. "Power Play" is also a song of his that all politicians should commit to memory before their first election. They ended with "Magic Carpet Ride" and of course their signature song "Born to be Wild" Deep Purple was great, from opening song to the finale I would love to say more but I have to get my motor running and head out on the highway looking for adventure and whatever comes my way. (for this week end, the Venturing Cardboard Boat Regatta) when you think about it, High Adventure comes in many forms On Tuesday I saw the Moody Blues and if I wasnt going on a campout tonight, I would be attending the Joe Walsh concert. Bethlehem is one festing town.(This message has been edited by OldGreyEagle)

While this is a huge country and I haven't been evreywhere as yet, I do find it odd that Jambo has known a Troop that had a bus and was told by the exec that according to Boy Scouts that could not be so, when I do know many troops that have a bus. I also find it odd that Jambo knows of an OA Chapter that was so successful that they also had a bus, amoung various other assets I have never heard of an OA Chapter owning, that was ultimately taken away from the Chapter because the Chapter was too sucessful, not because it was against the Bylaws of the BSA. Now, could the above be true? I can't say it is not as I know nothing of the situations, but they do seem very odd (This message has been edited by OldGreyEagle)

Eammon beat me to it, if it's tradition, then the whole troop should participate, everyone goes home on friday, then its not early, its normal

AvidSM, the technical expertise on budgets and money comes from the DE. Many times this is the troops closest experience with the DE and it works well for our District. Having Troops do it means its not the same people do the same things time after time. I guess the final outcome is it works for us, I hope the system that is in use where you live works just as well.

For adventure, you can't beat The Leatherstocking Tales

Good move So you made a mistake, reaffirmed your humanity, it happens. You will be providing the youth with a great example. Make a mistake, own up to it, apologize and do what you can to make it right. Nothing else can be said or done.

I am certain you didnt mean it the way it looks, but "untrained, unexperienced unit leaders" are the ones running the Camporees the Disitrct I serve have. And quite well as well. The troop appoints a Chair, not the Scoutmaster or Committee Chair and the troop adults support the chair. Once you have helped put together a camporee, it becomes really hard to find fault with subsequent ones as you realize what it takes to organize one. With multiple troops sharing the responsibility, we continually have fresh ideas, new slants on things and that keep Camporees from being the same thing over and over. Now, I may be missing something here, but just about all the DIstrict Committee members I know all have unit responsibilites. Is it different where you are?

Ah, leaving early because of a family responsibility or something else... People are going to have times when they need to leave early, I am not sure how to prevent that but you can have an established protocol of leaving early. First off, no scout is allowed to leave unless an adult has been notified, the adults are responsible for the youth and so its not to much of a stretch to have them notify someone they are leaving. Next, notification of leaving early is to be done early on. There will always be those "emergency" situations, but the family vacation starting on saturday doesnt mean you get to tell the scoutmaster friday evening you are leaving. THen, for the scouts excused early, that doesnt mean they cant pack up some things, help with some clean up on friday as they will miss the saturdays cleanup. You can have people leaving early without them getting off scot free!

the book that got me thinking, really thinking was Demian by Hermann Hesse (no, it doesnt have Rottweilers in it)