OldGreyEagle

Which begs the question why is New Jersey called the garden state? because you cant fit "Oil and petrochemical refinery state" on a license plate...

Oh Packsaddle, you wily curmudgeon, Are you saying that perhaps with an Endowment of 5 million (or so) to the BSA Mr Gore sets up the Albert Gore "Environmental Affirmative Action Award", this would be on line with the Hornaday medal and have local, regional and national versions Would National rush to embrace the concept? (as well as the endowment?) interesting thought...

Actually you can get into New Jersey for free, returning however costs 75 cents to get over the bridge...

On sunday I helped staff a booth at the Cranford, NJ Street Faire. Probably the most impressive (to me at least) thing about the Faire was the noticeable Boy Scout presence. There was one Troop selling bakery goods in the food area. Complete with Troop flag prominently diplayed. Then up the street was a display jointly held by a VFW Post and a Boy Scout Troop. Something about Socks for Troops. A notation on the sign said it was far an Eagle Scout Project. There was always a deep crowd around it so I never got in to talk to anyone about it. Further down was a Boy Scout troop handing out literature on Teen Age Depression. Now, most of the boys only had on uniform tops and while I fashion myself as leaning towards being a uniform policeman, seeing three separate troops out on a beautiful Fall Sunday afternoon made my heart sing. Congrats to all scout and scouters attending the Faire

When I think of the Nobel Peace Prize, I think of Albert Schweitzer, Mother Theresa and yes, even Jimmy Carter. Say what you will about Jimmy, but he did get Egypt and Israel settled down. And now Al Gore. Al hasnt lead what I would consider a life dedicated to conservation. I havent seen a documentary on how his homes reduce, reuse or recycle anything. I am not saying they don''t, but that would tell me he lives what he preaches. I dont know if there is global warming or not, and I am not sure if there is, if anything man can do to effect it either way. I do know that Inconvenient Truth would have had more impact if both sides would have been mentioned if not examined The use of labels, whether as Liberal, Neo-Con, GOP Bull or Hardline Democrat stifles an exhange of ideas and ends communication BTW with all the independently funded recounts of the disputed Florida 2000 presidential ballots, did Gore ever end up with a majority? My thought was he didnt, but I could be wrong.

Look at page 2, where it says: "Since 2004, all Cubmasters, Scoutmasters and Crew Advisors have been required to complete the basic training for their position before the council renews their units charter." This is not new to us and we continue to grow (knock on wood)

as a follow-up to those who claim mandatory training would decimate their council. Here is a link to the Council I serve 2006 Annual Report: http://www.minsitrails.com/Documents/BSAAnnualReport.pdf check the comment on page 5 regarding growth Would this happen everywhere? I dont know, but mandatory training and growth can occur

A very long time ago in a place very far from where I am now I worked at a hospital in a town that had three hospitals. The one I worked for was a pretty nice, there was another nice one and then there was the one in the more sordid, seamy side of time For 20 years there were rumors of the third hospitals demise. Every 8-10 months fresh rumor would surface over how and when the hospital would close. Then one day on the radio it was announced the hospital would close in 30 days Their emloyees were stunned, they couldnt beleive it. I asked a few of them who I had gotten to know how could they be surprised when it was talked about all the time. They replied, because when you hear rumors all the time, you dont expect any of them to be true ,unfortunately, this one was. I dont know if the uniform is slated to change, there has been all sort of speculation and one day it will be true, we just dont know when. I do sorta hope this time its true because once Nationa changes the uniform to a vibrant, hip, fashion forward modern ensemble, the youth will veritably jump into it and all our problems with recruiting and retention will be over

So Ed, you have a scout who you haven''t seen in four months, don''t you wonder why? Where he is? What do you do, mark him down as lost to the dark side? Why wouldnt you contact him after 3-4 abscences in a row to ask how things are? Maybe its problems you can help with, maybe you can''t. Maybe the scout says he wants to quite, so you say tink it over and you will call him back. 2 weeks later you call back, he says he quits and you say you are sad, but if thats the way he wants it, fine and then he comes off the charter. He knows he quit and so do you. Sounds like a responsible way to handle things

Ed Scouts are to be responsible in their, what is it we call them generically? oh yes, PORs, POSITIONS of responsibility. National even tells us that if the scout isnt being responsible, then the adults should not allow them to complete their term in office. Now, some here feel this is draconian, but its teaching responsibility. I feel every effort should be taken to reach the scout, but if he doesnt try, what else can be done?

Anarchist, as I was reading your post, the old Waly Kelly quote rang through, "We have met the enemy and he is us" One thing for sure, sooner or later we all get the Boy Scout program we deserve

I thought it was a wake up call to units who recharter scouts they havent seen in three years and then whine when the scout comes back to earn Eagle. Why didnt they drop him 1, 2, 3 years ago? This is what the policy allows a Troop to do. You regularly engage the scout, if after 6 months the scout says don't bother me anymore, I quit, then it is duly noted and the youth knows he quit The explanation in the website says not to allow scouts who arent doing their POR complete their time in grade. ( I agree "firing" a scout from his POR is the last step, hopefully one used in a troop every 5 years or so, but it has to be available) If Troops follow what national says, then the spectre of late returning scouts hoping to score Eagle for their college application should be reduced Awhile back, like 3-4 years, I remember a sentiment on the forum that people wished that National would define active in the worst way. Be careful for what you wish... (This message has been edited by OldGreyEagle)

Scoutnut I agree with you. Those who claimed the web site citation was not actual policy as we didnt know who wrote it will find fault with this as well. The real key I see is that now that it is printed, when decisions based on attendance requirements are struck down on appeal, the source will be immediately available. And with it in print, perhaps new leaders will see it and the "old" way of doing things will eventually slip away, but that is a long and painful process

I want to give high praise to your youth, they are living in a bad situation and sometimes extreme times call for extreme measures, and that''s what they did. I would go with what several have suggested, implement the system and be sure to stay on top of what was set out to be done. It''s my thought it wont last long, but as the system isnt followed, have the boys work with the good idea, having consequences to actions. This is how they learn by doing, and if they came up with the idea themselves, how can you claim the troop is boy lead if you refuse their ideas? The system could easily be used as a witch hunt rather easily so each evaluation will need to be proctored to be sure its impartial, which alone will be a revelation. Anyway, at least they came up with something rather than quiting and that counts for a lot

The District I serve has a "Webelos meet the Troops" day each year, of late this has been during the Fall Cub Event, where Troops host stations for Cubs to visit and then the troops show off their skills. The best attended event was back when the "Webelos meet the Troops" occurred during ROundtable Troops set up displays and equipment demonstrations and COuncil (!) sent a post card to every registerd Webelos 1 and 2 inviting them and parents to attend. We had over a hundred. The the invites stopped, the venue changes and recruiting has dropped

If I may... The background on the COuncil I serves foray into manditory training is interesting. The decision came from the executive board and the first charge to the Pros was to have competent training committees in each disttrict before this was breathed to the general populace Each Disitrct (we have 6) hold training coordinated with the other distrcts so that most training is available in council every 2 months. If you make it Manditory, they will come, but you better know what you are doing as well And that was handled up front

How can you deliver on a promise if you dont know what that promise is?

Ok, the request was to set a reasonable standard. Now, as reasonable men (an women, dont mean to start that argument here) will disagree with what reasonable is, but for this example, lets say the national standard becomes 60% attendance at Troop meetings and activities. Now, that would seem to be ok, perhaps even low to some of us, but I do have a question. What happens when there is a scout who comes in at 58%, because of a multitude of reasons, a real deserving scout but because of school, band, whateevr, he acheives a 58% attendance rate, do you deny him Eagle? And who will keep track of the attendance? The unit? The Council? For units that struggle to keep track of who is a registered merit badge counselor for what badge, we task them with keeping track of who attended what event? What do we do, keep photos of them all? How does a scout who thinks he attended 64% appeal when the troop claims 54%? Is it the role of the adult leadership to be sure the lists of the events are complete and verified? Of the youth? If its the youth, what happens when a scout loses 8 months worth od data? How would a verifiable attendance system work that could be implemented nationally? How long before you hear a scoutmaster say, well I know that national wanted 60% attendance, but in my troop, we expect 82.75% and if they cant cut it, out they go?

The Council I serve has manditory training and has had it for a few years now, details may be found on page 2 http://www.minsitrails.com/Documents/Newsletter/Jan2007/final.pdf Does it work? Well, at the Fall Camporee a recently trained asst Scoutmaster was smoking a cigar in front of God, everyone and the youth. When told what he was doing was not proper, he responded by saying that he thought the tobocco prohibition didnt include cigars. The training chair, and the one who did the training the individual was at said he knew he said no tobacco in any form, so the guy heard what he wanted to hear. You can lead a horse to training, but you can''t make him follow it... The BSA posts on its website what constitutes being Active and what Scout Spirit is, and people offer their interpretation of what I thought was well explained. I guess its just life(This message has been edited by OldGreyEagle)

Geez, I love the public, it people I can''t stand... Talk about nothing being new, allangr1024 says he feels like a second class citizen because he didnt take the new course, I took the new course and have been told I will never be a true Wood badger because I didnt take the real course that the current syllabus replaced. Perhaps Miss Manners needs to be consulted to write a program on how not to totally alienate Wood Badgers who did not enjoy the same curriculum as you did. And perhaps we should each remember just because some one didnt earn their beads the same way we did dosesnt make them any less valuable

Well, I know I looked good in the red beret, paraphasing Tim Gunn, I made it work

The red berets were cool, they looked sharp and I loved them, of course it took a real man with verve, panache and moxie to carry it off, but it can be done...

Is that air temp over 80 or water temp over 80? Sounds a cold lake is better?

A moment of Karnac the Magnificent: Whats 7-11? The collective number of teeth and IQ of the front row in any professional wrestling venue... or was that IQ and teeth, I keep forgetting

Bylaws? ::perk:: Bylaws? ::perk perk:: We don''t need no stinkin'' bylaws! Your committee "votes" in Assistant Scoutmasters? Do they also vote to have Assistant scoutmasters pilloried or flogged if behavior is not judged to be up to the correct standard? I thought to debate the role of women in scouting was arcane, but to have the committee vote in ASM''s? Do they give them annual evaluations as well? Along with PTO''s and overtime?