OldGreyEagle

AH, but Trev, the question is whether or not public schools should be celebrating a religious holiday? Should government buildings be festooned with Halloween symbols? Is not a city sanction of Trick or Treat Hours endorsing religion? Should not all vestiges of Halloweem be removed from our public schools and governmental buildings and perhaps we celebrate a harvest festival?

If you are going to reference a post of mine, I do request that it be done in context. When a Troop loses an appeal because what was appealed is contrary to BSA policy, yes, the Troop looks like an Ass. If troops want to establish minimum attendance requirements for activities and meetings no one is going to stop them. If they run successful troops for years and nothing is questioned, they are wonderful and may even be held out as wonderful examples. If one youth appeals and then they have to back off one of their requirements, well then, they have to back off, dont they?

OK, I admit I am deficient in my pagan knowledge. But wasnt the original use of the jack-o-lantern to scare away the spirits that may only roam the earth one night a year? And if so, that makes then a relgious icon, flagrantly displayed in school and governmental buildings. And if its ok for Schools and Goverment units to celebrate Halloween because its secularized, what about Christmas? Christmas Trees, Jingle Bells, Holly, Ivy overburdening postal workers, .... Other than the Nativity Scene, how much of what comprises the modern Christmas is based in religion? Is it not secularized to the point of commercialism? Do Hindu, Buddhist, Muslim children not participate in Halloween because they are neither Christian or Pagan?

Of course if you delay a scouts advancement because of the artificially contrived 50% attendance requirement and the scout or family appeals it, the troop will lose. Now, that probably means the boy transfers out, so you have lost a boy and look like an ass to your troop because you had a rule that BSA struck down. Your call

Ok, so this may be viewed as a lark, but yet I am interested in what others think. Halloween is this week and this past week end just about every town in the area I seerve, had a Halloween parade and it struck me, this is state supported religion. Halloween is of course a contraction of the phrase "All Hallow's Eve" the day before All Saints Day, a holy day of obligation in the Catholic Church. Santa Claus is a contraction of Saint Nicholas so this thing has prescedent. Now, the early church was good at co-opting existing holidays to make the aceptance of Christianity more palatable to the masses. I realize that All Saints Day and All Hallow's Eve is based on the Druish calendar, so whether you think of Halloween as Christian or Druish in origin, it deinitely has roots in a religious celebration, so why do public schools and other governmental units unabashedly celebrate it?

Thats ok, I can play Cheddar to your Emily Litella any time Roseanne Roseanneadan was always talking about some who asked a lot of questions from New Jersey(This message has been edited by OldGreyEagle)

Ummm, Vicki what are you talking about? I posted that a gay parent could be on an Eagle Board of Review because you dont have to be a leader to do so and Trevorum agreed. What did I say wrong?

This just happened in the COuncil I serve. A few weeks back at the Council Advancement Committee meeting there was a bit of a flurry. Seems the Advancement Chair of one of the Districts had instituted a policy of requiring the complete field uniform when a scout presented for an Eagle Board of Review. The reason for this was because a few troops in his district have decreed that for their troops the complete uniform consists of the hirt only. The District guy wanted to establish that a scout had to be in full field uniform. I couldnt beleive it myself, as I thought I knwe the guy. Well, I said that you couldnt require a boy scout uniform for an Eagle Board of Review as there was no requirement that any member of the BSA have a uniform, but if the scout presented without the uniform, it certainly would be a topic of discussion and then decision on the boards part based on the scouts answer. Having the scout say, in my troop we only wear the shirt because Mr Greyeagle says thats fine is not a reason to deny the scout Eagle if in the Boards opinion all the requirements are met. Troops can wear anything they like. Who is the poster who says they use the Green Venturing/Explorer shirt for their older scouts in a Troop? Am I going to bust a cranial artery worrying about it? Nope. To many other things to worry about

So, I want to be sure I understand my reprimand, it is ok to have a troop say that it's Class A (field uniform) is the shirt only and they are in compliance with the rules, is that right?

I have heard this topic brought up before. Something like by BSA policy you had to have X hours for sleeping. (X = the number of hours the person bring the issue wants to sleep). I have not seen anything like that in any BSA literature. If it did exist, what would happen to at least one OA ceremony? Could it still exist? I have seen Council events that are billed as 24 hours of fun, and indeed, events run for 24 hours or more continously. It would seem prudent that adequate sleep be worked in any schedule for any activity but that it would be variable accordign to activity and participants.

The trouble with having information right on hand of course is that then it has to be used. So, when you read the following from the Insignia Guide: Excerpts From the Rules and Regulations section and see that under the "Protection of Uniform" section: No alteration of, or additions to, the official uniforms, as described in the official publications, or the rules and regulations covering the wearing of the uniform and the proper combinations thereof on official occasions, may be authorized by any Scouting official or local council or any local executive board or committee, except the Executive Board of the Boy Scouts of America after consideration by the Program Group Committee. Then you have to wonder about troops or packs that say in this unit, the class A uniform is the shirt only, pants arent required. Now, they have the information that says they can't do that. Will they follow it? About as well as those who want to keep attendance in the scout spirit requirements is my guess.

Here's a thought. It may require a rework on what we hold dear, but consider this. Maybe the best definition of "active" is that what the scoutmaster and scout develop during their scoutmaster conference. The scoutmaster asks the scout what he want to do as a first class scout (example) and the scout says he want to be a patrol guide. The scoutmaster asks if the scout understands the role of patrol guide and reviews the duties and responsibilities of the postion. What the expectations are and how they are measured. If its the fall, and the scout says he wants to be quartermaster and the scoutmaster asks if the scout being in the high school band will effect that, maybe the scout realizes this is not the time to be quartermaster as the band plays at football games every saturday and the scout is needed on site at camp outs as well. The scout and scoutmaster set up an agreement as to what needs to be done and how and when it is to be done. Maybe the scout doesnt get a position of responsibility until after band season, as a consequence of being in Band and scouts but he does manage to stay in both. Perhaps rather than try to jam multi faceted scouts into a a single sized round hole, we rely on scoutmasters to assess the scout and work with him to come up with a meaningful scouting experience (working within BSA policies of course). Now, this approach is much more difficult to administer as it regards scouts as individuals and its easier to take roll call and have members meet a specific attendance requirement than look at every one separately, but it is an idea

Which is why none of the BSA units (Packs, Troops Crews, Teams, Ships,etc) go anywhere with only one adult. We have adult males and females, all acknowledged heterosexuals sleeping in tents right next to each other for heavens sake! TJ says the gays are already in scouting and while I dont know of any for sure, I have to agree they are present as they are everywhere else. The odd thing is that in the past, all the pedophilic scoutmasters that have made the media are always married men with children and a pillar of the community. When reading stories of these men, the reactions of friends and neighbors are always the same, what a shock it was, how unbeleivable this could happen, he was such a nice guy. I havent read a single story about how the abuser was such a flamer he set fires everytime he took the boys on a hike. I have never seen a comment about how no one could beleive this guy was a scoutmaster because he was such a raging queen. I think the local option is the way to go. Part of the local option would be that the BSA place all responsibility and liability in the Chartering Organization for adult leaders. Community Day, if you want gay leaders, fine, have them, but if they abuse a child, only you are liable as you chose them. The BSA would still keep its polcies on its employees. Let it run a few years and see what happens?

Actually girls can be members of the BSA. The Charter President of the Venture Crew won a bet with her Poly Sci teacher. He said girls couldnt be Boy Scouts, she said she was and they made a bet. She showed him her registration card and he agreed she was. Although I have always mainained she should have explained what Venturing was, she said the sight of him in the dress all day was quite the spectacle I know things evolve, way back in the Chicago suburbs in the 60's, I used to caddy at the local golf course, Elmhurst Country Club if anyone remembers. Back then the groundskeepers, mostly illegals, would get deported every quarter or so, today our government is working on a way to make illegals official citizens and allow social security benefits. When I started as an Altar Boy, we had to know latin, now the mass is said in the vulgate You couldnt earn merit badges until you were first class and had to have the same amount for each rank as today You could wear the red beret for a few shinning years and then it went away thanks to Curtis Sliwa of the Guardian Angels The Quartermaster patch was a key over a wagon I was always told by my cousins who lived in the country that I was lucky I lived in Chicago, I had 5 TV stations to choose from To change TV stations, you had to walk over to the TV set (the horror, the horror) AM Radio stations played actual music, the first song I ever heard on the radio was Tommy James and the Shondells singing my baby does the hanky panky

I was trying to stay out of this, but once bylaws are mentioned, well, then I want to be sure to have the thread include what constitutes "active" according to the BSA. This is from: http://www.scouting.org/boyscouts/resources/mbc/rank.html Question: For the Star, Life, and Eagle Scout ranks, how is "Be active in your troop and patrol" defined? Answer: A Scout is considered to be active in his unit if: He is registered in his unit (registration fees are current). He has not been dismissed from his unit for disciplinary reasons. He is engaged by his unit leadership on a regular basis (Scoutmaster conference, informs the Scout of upcoming unit activities, through personal contact, and so on). And least then some of the adults say, thats OK, we will get them with "Scout Spirit", then following the above link you have: Question: Rank advancement requires a Scout to demonstrate Scout spirit. How is Scout spirit defined and determined? Answer: Scout spirit applies to how a Scout lives and conducts his daily life. He shows Scout spirit by being a role model to his peers, living by the Scout Oath and Law. The concept of Scout spirit is not based on how many Scouting events or outings a Scout attends, but rather by how he helps bring out the best in others as a reflection of his own character and attitude in his daily life. Troops don't need by-laws, but I understand they are frequently used. As I have observed, By-Laws tend to be used for punitive purposes rather than anything else. The Scout Oath and Law should be the basis of the units operation. Operational documents, such as what and when dues are, meetings, ect. are valuable and there are those who don't differentiate between them. I thought that since you are talking By-laws, you should have the BSA definitions.

Well now Brent, maybe we are being a little rough on the beavah. One thing I have learned over the years of internet posting is that sometimes mere words dont convey what is meant to be expressed. Without volume, facial gestures, intonation and hand movements we are deprived of most of the methods that our experience with communication is based on. When only text is available for communication, then sometimes other devices are used to enhance the meaning, hyperbole, sarcasm, rhetorical questions, metaphors, allegories and that sort of thing. And sometimes regional differences come into play. When I was a kid growing up in Chicago, I always thought that Bugs Bunny was a real hoot, I mean, who talks like that? Calling everyone a maroon? Then I came to the east coast and have met several "bugs Bunny" impersonators even though they dont mean it. From my view being called a moron can either be an insult or a term of endearment and it may be said the same way from the same person. I think we at times take way to much umbrage with a persons style of communication. A person may be sharp and abrupt but always accurate, does that excuse his abruptness? No, but it doesnt diminish his accuracy rate either. I would love to curb a lot of peoples style here, but then, would it still be them? Most likely not and we could end up losing perspectives we would never have. So, in retrospect, I dont expect that Beavah actually has data that show only 20% of BSA units populate their Boards of Review with the appropriate members. I am sure he was just making a point, and that point is just his opinion. After all, unless you are giving a reference, anything written is just opinion. Waugh! Imagine a platform where there is exchange of information and ideas and opinions where no one is restrained by some one elses rules on how to communicate and whose ideas stand for all to judge. Where people ask questions, receive information and then evaluate its usefullness. You may say I am a dreamer, but I am not the only one perhaps someday you will join us and the world will live as one.

To get the sign to work, you have to be consistent. The sign goes up, the mouth goes shut and thats it. The originator cannot hold up a sign and continue to talk. He puts it up and leaves it up until there is silence. Whatever noise level exists when he starts to talk, will only stay present or increase. Wait until the noise level is zero and then talk. If noise develops, the sign goes back up. Each person has to decide for themselves how quiet they want to make it. I know many scouts and adults as well, hate to keep putting up the sign but thats the key. It may make for a long meeting, but if the SPL starts out with an attitude of I am going to do this and keeps at it, it works. You just keep doing it. Like I said, the originator has to be quiet and the boy and adult leadership have to be silent as well as the younger scouts will follow what they see

Hey Beavah, where did you get that information that only 20% of scout units follow the rules for composition of a Board of Review?

Well Trev, technically speaking a Gay parent could not sit in on a Board of Review since you have to be a COmmittee Member to do so, then again, to sit on an Eagle Board of Review all you have to do is have an understanding of the importance and purpose of the Eagle Board of Review. So, it's all logical, a gay parent can't do anything official except staff an Eagle Board of Review. Hmmm, upon reviewing the situation, I think I better think it out again...

"I thought that mosquitoes weren't attracted to you if you didn't shower and did smell bad" then how did mosquitoes ever find food before the invention of Right Guard and Irish Spring?

We are going to need some sort of backstory, what happened between scout 1 and 2 that created the issue, what did the on site adults do and how was the face to face with parent 2 held?

In the course I took and then in the one I helped staff, there was a section with youth on the second week end. An interesting is the syllabus for the Powderhorn course is much less developed than say the Woodbadge Course, which makes sense as its been around a heck of lot less time. How well a course goes is very dependent on the course director and his staff, the course I took as an attendee was substandard, the course I staffed was much better, then again I might be prejudiced

From one of the greatest movies of all time "I think we can handle this responsibly, just like the mature adults we are, cant we Mr. POOPY PANTS ?" So. c'mon, if you have a point to make, make it without reference to familial ties or personal tastes.

Sewing sounds so wussy, now a Tailoring Merit badge, that has potential. How to do patches on the uniform would be one requirement, whipping up 4 costumes for a skit, that would be included and how to iron and hang the garments as well

Hey, the White Sox won the World Series, in what, 2005? The Hallowed sons of Halas were in the Super Bowl last year, not a mean feat although it would take pretty much a miracle on Lake Shore Drive for them to get there this year. Speaking of being a nexus of the undead, have you ever seen Cedric Benson attempt to break through the line?