OldGreyEagle

See, I could take Pappy's last post as a direct attack on FireKat and remove it, or I could leave it and let it be read so all understand. I think I will let it stand

This is the most manly skit SNL ever did: http://snltranscripts.jt.org/78/78rcowperthwaite.phtml I wouldnt consider it manly to copy and paste when a mere link will do

" They must have whimpered in defeat anytime they had to cook, sew, harvest plant parts, etc." Hey a real man kills what he needs and then eats the animal raw, and who needs to sew, if the Good Lord wanted us to walk around naked, we would have been born that way.(This message has been edited by OldGreyEagle)

"...not forgetting of course to braid wicks out of fibers from a cattail leaves which they've harvested themselves from the middle of a marsh,..." Harvesting a plant is woman's work, a real man would know that

I am an independent voter. I am the type of voter that the Democrats and Republicans must convince to vote as they dont have enough members to elect anyone on their own. Unless of course you are talking about Chicago. I love to hear people talk about how COnservative they are and talk about how independent thinking they are and then talk about how the "drive by media" handled a story. So, being an Independently minded person means they quote a right wing talk show host. People can quote who they want if they want, just dont use someone elses words and tell me you are an independent thinker.

Gentlemen, Merlyn is not and never has claimed to be gay, he has repeatedly stated he is married to a good Christian woman. Throwing out gay as a red herring is not proper. I had thought of going in to edit your posts, but that would bring about inqueries about what was edited and why. I disagree with Merlyn about many postions he takes, but I won't lie about his positions or himself either

I beleive there is a distinction between being loyal to a political party and then loyal to your principles. Limbaugh, Coulter, etc purport to be Conservatives first and Republicans second and are complaining that "their" party is being taken away from them. Then again, if its the will of the people, how can that be bad?

You know, one could be a Congressman, a Senator, a President, a Supreme Court Justice and still not be eligible to be a member of the BSA

Isnt McCain for amensty for illegal aliens? A few years back wasnt there a quote attributed to him about how hard the illegals work? That McCain would pay 50 dollars an hour to pick some crop and that regular Americans wouldnt do it? If McCain is a conservative, why are so many Republicans disheartened by his apparent success in getting the nomination?. On the other hand, Donald Rumsfeld and Michael Moore (the Fahrenheit 911 one) are both Eagle Scouts, what has that to do with presidential qualifications?

How many real men does it take to change a light bulb? None, real men are not afraid of the dark or One, but the light bulb has to want to change

He's a lumberjack and he's OK He sleeps all night and he works all day. Well, he gives references to where the copies come from, as long as he doesnt pass it off as original work and its credited to where its from, what can be done?

Pappy, I asked what does "manly" mean to you, not what does manly mean to Harvey Mansfield.

RM, you could send him the 5th reuirement for Star (I assume this scoutmaster conference was for Star) 5. While a First Class Scout, serve actively 4 months in one or more of the following positions of responsibility You get to call what is active or not, not the Dad. it's the scouts advancement not his. If you laid out expectations when the job was assumed, then there is no issue. If you gave the scout periodic assessment on the job he was doing there is no issue

Have you checked out the Pioneering merit badge? Lots of things to make there that involve felling trees and you get to make your own rope. Then there is the Wilderness Survival merit badge where you do need to build a shelter to sleep in Maybe you should define what "manly" means to you as you use the term a lot and I want to be clear

What French? As Miss Shirley Feeney pointed out, RSVP means Respond So Very Promptly and I don't need to know French to know beaucop means big as in "this cost beaucoup bucks"

Pappy, the way I understand it is you want wholesale changes in the BSA because as the program exists today it does not appeal to today's youth. After reading your posts I have to ask, with respect, how much experience have you had with the BSA program? Did you ever run it, as prescribed? I dont mean for a few months, like for 5 years? Elected SPL, elected PL, a PLC that set the program schdeule? We have established that you barely follow the BSA right now and I realize that is up to you and your CO, but to say that the BSA is broken and it must be fixed when you have not tried to run the BSA program costs you some credibility

I am going to assume a few things, and Ed is right when you assume. You have a Sea Scout unit, by definition that means older youth. How about running an orienteering class, but by auto? It will take some prepararion, finding some 3 way intersections and then add some historical trivia about where Mrs O'Learys kicked the lantern over or something. The idea isnt to finish with the best time, but to hit all the stops. And proof of the stops is with a digital camera. Heck, they can even use their cell phones. You have a driver, a navigator and a few assistants for the questions

When I think of Liberal Thought, the first thing that comes into my mind is "Global Warming" and other "Green Issues". When I go camping with the Troop, the first thing I think of is "Leave No Trace", how Green is that? If Boy Scouts were the puppets of the vast Right Wing conspiracy, should we not be slashing and burning our way across the country? To leave no trace when camping is a very green thing to do which would seem to be liberally minded, but then again to conserve natural resources would seem to be at the heart of being a conservative as well. Its as if the BSA was on the Conservative-Liberal COntinuum. Sometimes COnservative, Uniforms, saluting the flag, and at other times quite Liberal, Leave No Trace

it would be against BSA policy to impose the wait time that is proposed

Ok, I promise this is my last post in this thread until tomorrow as I have to see what others views are. The mission of the Boy Scouts of America is to prepare young people to make ethical and moral choices over their lifetimes by instilling in them the values of the Scout Oath and Law. There is nothing about Camping, the Outdoors, none of that in the Mission. The Outdoors becomes the environment in which the values are taught. Joe Pa (bowing head)prepares youth people to make ethical and moral choices over their lifetime by use of the football program at Penn State. Boy Scouts grew to its popularity because it offers a fun outdoors prgram and while the youth are in the program, the values of the Oath and Law are taught, they are dramatized, they are absorbed. Venturing is a program that attempts to instill those values through programs such as Sea Scouting, Arts and Hobbies, Sports, Youth Ministries and Outdoors. Taking the values out takes out the soul of what makes us who we are. If we want the BSA to be the premier outdoors program for youth, we have a whole heck of a lot of work in front of us as we make sure all scoutmasters and assistant scoutmaster are the he men (and he woman, or is that she woman) that they need to be. We would have to bypass NOLS for sure and a few other groups as well. Now, I will watch what others have to say

Pappy, How familiar are you with the Venturing program? It is can be Coed, it does not have an uniform, rather the youth decides if and what they will use as an uniform. The program ranges from Sea Scouts, Arts and Hobbies, Youth Ministries, Out Doors and Sports or any electic combination thereof. You may want to check out the information Venturing has on Youth Ministries Crews. It does however have Values in it, I am not sure I understand your reluctance to adhere to the values present in the BSA. Indeed, without them we have an Ourdoors club, and there are plenty of outdoors clubs already, why would we shed a distinguishing characteristic? I am not sure I want an end run around the ACLU, I prefer to face challanges head on. Although in most cases, I happen to agree with the ACLU that the BSA is a private faith based organization that gets to set its own membership rules and if that means we cannot get governmental subsidies, then thats what it means

I'm a little fuzzy here. When you say BSA should drop the values, you mean like the Oath and Law?

::the mind shudders and the body recoils::

Hey, at least the Nissan Frontier I drive was built in Smyrna Tennessee

Pappy you might want to chack out http://archives.cnn.com/2002/US/West/10/31/atheist.scout.ap/ "We've asked him to search his heart, to confer with family members, to give this great thought," Brad Farmer, the Scout executive of the Chief Seattle Council of the Boy Scouts, told The Sun of Bremerton. "If he says he's an avowed atheist, he does not meet the standards of membership." On membership applications, Boy Scouts and adult leaders must say they recognize some higher power, not necessarily religious. "Mother Nature would be acceptable," Farmer said. Thats pretty broad