OldGreyEagle

See, I wish one could make money being wrong, then I would rival Bill Gates wealth. Way back at New Hampshire/Iowa time I was whining about poor Pennsylvania and how our primary didnt count, and the races would be over long before "our" primary was held. I wonder how I make money on this talent?

Well if a Webelos group can show up and place third, I guess so much for Webelos not participating in Camporees, if they can place, they should participate. The Camporees in the Disitrct I serve are pretty much run by the District Troops. By that I mean there is a host Troop. They decide theme and location, and arrange for the privies and water if need be and EMS services. Get the permits if required or reservations. They coordinate the stations with the other troops but the other troops contribute 50% to the camporee. There are a few troops that always place high in the camporee, well their patrols do. It is a patrol compettion. THen again, the patrols that do well obviously know their stuff and have the skills. The host troop should be thinking its good to win, but when you chase everyone else away, what have you won?

Seeing as how we have had a bunch of "Death Bed" Eagles, it is entirely possible to have an EBOR for a scout who is over 18, at least within 3 months of his 18th birthday. So, it is entirely possible to be speaking to a registered voter when doing an EBOR. And I don't see how asking a scout who he is thinking of voting for is rude and coercive if you ask and listen to the thought process that lead the person to the selection and move on. No, you don't debate or argue the selection, you listen to the reasoning and move on. If you can't ask the question without adding a value judgement, then don't ask the question. I think the question is valid, judging the answer is not. This does bring up a quesiton, some don't want to have a scout's thoughts on reverence brought up because its too personal. And now, who the youth will vote for is too personal. A few people even suggested that the scout should respond by saying, My religious beliefs are my private thoughts and I dont feel comfortable discussing them or words to that effect, and now, we encourage the scout to answer the question of who they will vote for with an answer of 'none of your beeswax or something similar. So, what about other attributes? When you ask a scout what being trustworthy means to them, can they answer none of your beeswax or being trustworthy is part of my personal code of conduct and I dont feel comfortable discussing it with you? What about loyal? Friendly? The reason for questions that cannot be asnwered with a yes or no is to see how the scout reasons and communicates, there are no right or wrong questions that can be asked, well, I guess 2, but thats thats it!

Sorry Bob, I think you are wrong Then again, you can think I am wrong What a Country!

Hmm, I have to repeat my post, I dont see a problem asking a scout his stand on a political issue or who he intend to vote for and why. I want to hear his reasons. Now, to my way of thinking, there is no debate or rebuttal to the scouts answer. Question asked, answered and we move on. Its a board of review, not a politcal debate or discussion group. However, if the youth shot back an answer such as Hillary because she is such a babe, I might aquestion whether or not the scout respects the BOR.

I was alway this week end, so I am late to this party so, if this is out of order, I apologize but intend to push on. I don't see a problem asking a scout at a BOR who they are voting for and why. I would listen to the answer and move on. I don't see any merit in arguing the candidate, there is merit in hearing the youth reasoning.

OK, so I initially closed this thread because I didnt see any good comming of it, however Ed prevailed upon me to re-open because he has a question he wants responses on. So, lets see what happens(This message has been edited by OldGreyEagle)

This may be a semantical debate, and I would not want to be anti-semantical, but here goes. Ed, Webelos cannot participate in a Boy Scout Camporee for the same reason that we don't count (well many of us) requirements done as a Cub Scout for Boy Scouts. That said, it should be obvious that Webelos can't participate in Boy Scout Camporees because they are not Boy Scouts, I think most will agree with me there. Why would a Den of Webelos be set in competiton against Boy Scouts in skill competitions that they have not learned? OK, now, I used the word "Participate" meaning that the Webelos would function as a patrol and compete in the skills. There may be some who say, why not let the Cubs try out the stations, and not count their score, its just an introduction to Boy Scouts and let the boys see what cool things they can do. To me, the draw back is if the stations as challenging to the Scouts, woudl not the tasks seem daunting to the Webelos? If they aren't, time to upgrade your camporee stations. Now, if the schedule calls for the Webelos to walk around the stations and observe the stations with Boy Scouts in them, I can see that. Maybe have a few stations set up with age appropriate skill demonstrations. Have the Webleos compete against each other, how does that sound? Like maybe you should have a Webelos Camporee of its own. Maybe it's a question of what Participates means versus Camping with. When Cubs are Camping with Boy Scouts, the Cubs are supposed to have age appropriate activitities, Correct? A Camporee is not Age appropriate, doesnt mean there couldnt be though, just takes planning

when you talk about B-P's "pretty words" I certainly hope there was no sarcasm associated with it. I thought B-P was an excellent speaker and the recordings and movie clips certainly show a man of superb wit and excellent humor. If all he was good for was "pretty words", then we all may be in the wrong youth group. then I read "How else could you possibly interpret the 2nd Class requirement, "On one of these campouts, select your patrol site..."?" Well, unless that ellipsis cut off the phrase "300 hundred feet from the other patrols" I am not sure how it relates to this topic. And finally, with my finest Jim Mora voice: Wood Badge? Wood Badge? Don't talk to me about Wood Badge! Wood Badge? Wood Badge? Are you kidding me? Wood Badge? Wood Badge? I thought we were talking about patrols camping 300 feet from each other, I am not sure how Wood Badge snuck in, again, but it did. I think I have already said this, but I will try to make it clear. If you want to take the name of Wood Badge and turn it back to one of it's previous incarnations go right ahead. If you want to rename the Current Wood Badge for the 21rst Century the Administrative Skills Course, fine, start to work on it. If harranging us is part of the plan, I guess I can put up with that although I think we have proven most of us here can't change anything on a National Level so you should have other irons in that fire as well.(This message has been edited by OldGreyeagle)

But Ohio_Scouter, now you are forever linked to Santiago and how cool is that?

I beleive Ed is correct, I thought Rosanne Rosanadan's tag line was "You ask a lot of questions for someone from New Jersey" or someting similar. Anyway, we miss you Gilda

Cleanliness is next to Godliness, but on an scouting event, Cleanliness is next to impossible Corollary to the above: In order to clean something, something else must get dirty; Just because something got dirty in no way means something else got clean

Waterproof clothing isn't. (However it demonstrates 100% effectiveness at containing sweat.)

When erudition is suspect, one must not reveal full understanding and the badge of mediocrity shall rule

"Why help brainstorm reasons not to try something new? Have you never even once in your lifetime of service tried out B-P's advice just to see if it works?" This is the text of a speech by B-P that I listen to quite frequently: Address to the Public Ladies and Gentlemen. I have been asked to explain to you what the Boy Scout movement is. It is a tall order to compress into three minutes the ideals that are being followed by over a million and a half of boys. The movement primarily is a brotherhood of service of boys and men. Its school of character of citizenship, of personal efficiency for the good of the community. This sounds high-falootin. For what is as we know it, a band of bare-kneed rascals, with cowboy hats and staves in their hands. But remember, you cannot give them character through ordinary classroom methods. You have to use other means. The boys are eager to join in a jolly game of fellowship, with its Healthy camp life and handy pioneer training. Their moral character is developed by our method of self government under a code of chivalry in the Scout law. Their spiritual character is developed by their being brought face to face with the wonders and beauties of nature. The boy is naturally active, rather than passive in temperament, and we give him opportunities of performance rather than of profession. Scouts make themselves efficient not merely for their own good but in order to be helpful to the community. In other words, they train to be good citizens. Character is far more essential to a successful career of a man. Character in its individual members is essential for the character of the nation. And character in the nation is similarly essential to its welfare. As a school of character therefore, the Scout movement is non-military, non-sectarian, non-political and non-class. On these lines the movement has come in the space of twelve years to be adopted by every civilized country. The brotherhood spirit has thus grown up automatically. It is forming a personal tie not only between the states of the British Commonwealth, but also between the different foreign counties, it may just supply that soul which is needed to make the form of the League of Nations a living force, such as will render war impossible in the future. The movement is growing every day in size and in effect. All we want are more men in this great brotherhood of service to do this joyous work for God, their country, and the boys. The work, for all who try it can testify, is well worthwhile. What I read is that the scouting movement is a brotherhood of service producing citizens of charactor by means of camping and pioneer training. The Troop is to be boy led and B-P fervently hoped that scouting would end the need for war. It would take a military man to want to end war and eliminate and his profession, for he had seen first hand the results of war. Producing citizens of charactor who are service minded. That is the advice I follow from B-P, not how far apart patrols camp. I wish you Happy Scouting

Gee Kudu, most of the photos I have seen of B-P are while he was attednding a World Jamboree or some other mass gathering of scouts, why he have lent his prescence to the masses of Parlour Scouts in attendance I am not sure. And he addressd them as well as Chief Scout of the World. In all the recordings I have heard of him at these events he usually opens with something like, Greetings Fellow scouts, I am not sure I have ever heard him say, Greetings Parlour Scouts.... So B-P despised Jamborees?

where in the burbs? I am from Wood Dale, northern DuPage County

yes, another team in town and I dont mean the Bears, Bulls,or Blackhawks neither. Actually, I would have thought you were a fan since your name is a sox

I remember Ron Santo clicking his heels after a home victory while jogging into the Wrigley Field Cub Clubhouse with Jack Brickhouse crowing, I also remember that line-up, except I would have said a battery of Holtzman and Hundley. I also remember them as the biggest choke-artists of all time Its been a hundred years since a Cubs World Series win, that other team in Chicago swept the series 2 years ago

Of coruse I am coudl be way off base here, but isnt WildernesStudent a non-scouting college student checking in here for advice?

GW, I agree that perception is reality, I would take your premise a step further. I am not so sure that it's because each of the multi-layers that is the BSA seems to always have its' collective hand out as much as the perception that the return on the investment is lacking. As we know, we volunteer for a program that is not controlled by those inside in the program. The CO's have the real power and few of them realize it. I have seen multiple DE's come and go and a few "terminated", none of the District membership had any input in the decision nor did they have input to the replacement. Sometimes its hard to work for an organization that seemingly does not value your opinion or your efforts and that may explain the backlash to FOS.

Of course they can dual register, why wouldnt they? if you have 100 boy scouts and 20 are also sea scouts and another 15 are in Venturing Crews and 15 more are in an Explorer Post the Council can claim 150 youth members.

In such a district, I woudl love to see a scout come along with a knowledgeable parent and after the Eagle project is over say no, I am not doing this, its adding to the requirements and either give me a board of review or I will appeal it. The scout would eventually win, and make the supportes of the workbook look like the maroons they are. I wonder if such a youth exists?

NO, a troop cannot make a by-law that supercedes a National Policy. BSA National Policy is that there are no prohibitions on who a scout earns a merit badge from, so no, your troop cannot have a rule that says otherwise. One could question what good by-laws are if you just "discovered" a law and now have to scramble to follow it Having said that there is no National Policy about how many and who a scout may earn a merit badge from, there is a lot to be said for having the scout seek out as many counselors as possible. Adult Association is a method of the Boy Scout Program and its central jewel is the merit badge program. So, no you cant have a rule against a parent counseling a scout for a merit badge but yes, ancourage the scout to have as many as possible merit badge counselors. Funny, the tendency is to think the parent will allow the scout to skate through a badge, in my experience, the son is most likely to be held to a much higher standard than anyone else. If the scout is passed and doesnt know his stuff, why would you keep the parent as a counselor? Edited Part Of course, a counselor has to be specificallu approved by the Disitrct to counsel any badge(This message has been edited by OldGreyeagle)

Way back in 1969 I faced an Eagle Board of Review, I don't remember much about it, it was in a church basement a few town over from where I lived. I do remember being asked how I was thrifty so as far back as 1969 somebody was asking thrifty questions Holy Prescience Batman !(This message has been edited by OldGreyeagle)