OldGreyEagle

I suggest a trip to the Student health Center at the college you attend. There you will find someone who can tell you what you can and can't carry around with you on your excursions and may be able to supply you with, well supplies for cost or something close. I am sure they would love to be part of your pro active thinking

Nothing like an esoteric exercise, but here we go: To get from Scout to First Class the scout has to do many things, I won't list them all, but the only item that requires "time" is the Tenderfoot requirements to exercise and set benchmarks, then excercise (more or less) for 30 days and "improve". All the other requirements "Could" be done insode of these 30 days, so the least amount of time a scout could take to get from Scout to First Class is 30 days. That also takes in account having a Scoutmaster conference for each rank and a BOR for each rank on day 30. Perhaps not the best way to run things but its possible. Then, 4 months at First class, and then 6 months between Star and Life and 6 months between Life and Eagle. Shortest possible time is 17 months. And many people in the troop have to be ok with it. Not saying its right or wrong, only what needs to be done If the scout has the skills from the Royal Rangers, it shouldnt be hard for him to select a campsite, pitch a tent, be patrol cook, tie his knots or identify plants and animals. Maybe a "shotgun" day with a few adults to run down what he can and can't do would help, but it can't speed up the 17 month thing

heck GW, there are those who say standing close enough to me to hold my hands and hearing me sing We Are the World and Kum Ba Yah is the most agregious form of hazing

it all depends on what you and the Troop are willing to do. Check this picture, http://www.troop362.com/pictures/2008_pictures/08030_ts_eagle_court/IMG_5576.jpg thats one of the scouts in the Troop I serve with the crutches. He uses those crutches to get everywhere he can. He was adopted from Russia by his mother when he was 8. He is 17 now and working on Eagle. He has MS and a hard time speaking, but he is on NYLT staff. Then there is http://www.troop362.com/pictures/2008_pictures/08030_ts_eagle_court/IMG_5671.jpg my favorite scout is sitting next to one of our assistant scoutmasters, another young adult with MS, this guy is an Eagle Scout and is on staff at NYLT. My son was on JLTC staff, thats how long ago he was in, he has epispadias and has to urinate through a catheter he puts in his abdominal wall. At night he sleeps with a catheter placed in and a drainage bag. He was elected SPL and patrol leader to the 2001 National Jamboree, He is also an Eagle scout. We have had a few autistic scouts and those with Aspergers as well. Somew we have had sucesses with and others not so much. The biggest indicator of success was how much the family was willing to work with the troop. The parents who didnt help much had youth that did not get much from the program. Those who do work with us, their sons get a lot. Then there are those who we cant handle because of violent mood swings, but the only way to find out is to try. Each troop will have its level of acceptance dictated by the Troops leadership background, we are lucky to have a pediatrician as a Committee chair, that helps but everyone has to be willing to work.

It was a long time ago, in a place far far away, well, actually Chicago area, about 1965 or so. I was a bright young scout, really Gung Ho. I thought being a scout was the bestest thing in the whole world, I was part of the World Brotherhood of Scouting, it was the 60's and love was around us. On one summer campout, we drove for what seemed like hours. We got to the campsite and set up. The Troop used an Army surplus 16X16, that thing was huge, and it was heavy and we all loved it. It was so big the entire Troop slept in it. The cooler older guys on one side and us other guys on the other. After the tent was up and the gear stowed, Charlie, the SPL came over and told me he needed my help. I was in like 7th heaven. Charlie was like a god to us younger scouts, he had his license and his own car. It was a 57-58 Chevy, it was painted candy apple red and roared like a jet, that car was cool. Rumor was he shaved everyday and had a girl friend. He had muscles and was talking about joining the Army. I fairly floated as we walked over to the group of older cooler scouts. Finally I was going to be part of the in crowd. Then I was informed I was to be the bag man on a snipe hunt. It was simple, all I had to do was stand on the Snipe trail and hold the bag open and the Snipe would run straight into it. Now, wait I said, I know what a Snipe hunt is, and I am not going to do it. I felt a lot let down that Charlie thought I was stupid enough to fall for a gag like that. So then Charlie says, well, you are right, but you know, Snipes are birds (As Ed is sure to point out)and we happened to have driven into where they live. So badly did I want to be a member of the "Inner Sanctum" that I bought it. I went out and held the bag, and held it, and held it and held it. Well, back at camp the older scouts sure were having a party at my expense, they had this kid who knew about Snipe Hunts out on a Snipe Hunt, it was glorious. The adults on the trip knew what was going on, and reminded them that I was supposed to be brought back to camp about 1 am if I didnt show up first. Back at the Snipe Trail I stood, bag open. I knew Snipes were rare birds and figured we had driven long enough to get in their range. I waited, and waited. Along about dawn I figured I had waited long enough. Seems the older scouts got their signals crossed and everyone thought someone else would get me, but nobody did. I got back to camp as breakfast was being made, and when I was spotted, the whole camp cheered, laughed and hooted. I was not having a fun time. I remember thinking, remember this moment, remember how hot your cheeks feel, how angry you are, you are never ever going to feel this way again, I must admit had I means to physically harm Charlie, I may have availed myself of the opportunity. A few months later it was the Fall Camporee. Charlie again asked me for some help. I asked him what, I was more than a little suspicious of anything he said at this point. He told me he needed the Camps Canon Report. It has the schedule of the Camporee on it and it was floating around the camp and people would get it, copy it down and pass it on. So, after being assured it was real, I made him say "scout's honor" I went off. Gol dang it if every troop I visited had just had it but passed it along minutes before I got there. I went to over 10 troops before a kindly old scoutmaster who knew my dad from work asked me if I had ever been on a Snipe Hunt,. I almost fainted. The rage, anger, fear, humiliation just ran through me like an electric shock. He had done it to me again. I walked back to camp, slinked actually, imagining all who saw me were laughing behind my back, pointing me out as that absolute and complete idiot, first he falls for a Snipe Hunt and then he beleives the Snipe Hunt guy and looks for the Canon Report. When I got back to camp, I walked up to Charlie and told him I was sorry, but I didnt get it, but I would go after it first thing in the morning. I never did go after it and I never talked to Charlie again. I never did anything he said and completely blocked him and all his older buddies out. I had learned never, ever to trust what a boy leader said because they were out to get me. I resolved that they did not exist in my world. As time went on, I made sure that no other scout ever went through what I did. I would tell all the new scouts about snipe hunts and canon reports and left handed smoke shifter, 50 ft of shoreline and all that. I told them if anyone asked them to do anything that didnt sound right, to ask me first. I had a few angry older scouts, but I didnt care and I was getting big enough that nobody retaliated. I eventually was elected Senior Patrol Leader because the scouts knew I would not betray them. Having posted this story before, I pretty well know what will be forthcoming. I do ask one thing, is it worth placing a memory like this in one of your scouts heads?

yes Snipe Hunting still goes on, not that I am proud of that(This message has been edited by oldgreyeagle)

There is a phrase used from time to time around here and around life, its "perception is reality" so maybe Eamonns SE needs to look at himself and his peers to see where perceptions of SE's and Pro's come from. Each poster needs to look at the reaction they get from other poster's and assess the perceptions that they elicit. I didnt realize I made enough puns to have it be a trademark, but I am ok with that. If responses are continually hostile, it could be that what is considered by a poster to be a perfectly logical response is seen by an other as hostile and that is fair enough, we have seen plenty of personality clashes and no one expects everyone to love everyone else, although we can strive to treat everyone with scoutlike respect. But if reponses continually elicit hostile rebuttals, perhaps ones style needs to be tempered. People come to the Forum for information, when possible I like to give a link to the source giving the BSA answer. Others like to offer an opinion, its up to the inquisitor to decide what to do, It would help if we offered our own opinions without demeaning others although I recognize I have a timber in my eye I must remove before I worry about cinders in others.

Ed, is it not true that if you "know" a merit badge counselor to be a "rubber stamp" counselor and you have unequivacal proof, that the correct course of action is not to steer boys away from him, but to get him removed from the list of approved counselors? So, you and the scout are perusing a list of Camping MB counselors, and the scout says, hey, look Mr Smith is a counselor, I want him to council me. And you say, well no Billy, I dont trust him, he doesnt do a really good job, and Billy says, oh, but he is my Dads best friend, bummer. If you know that a MB counsleor is not doing his duties according to Hoyle, are you not required to report this? Just a thought

OK, this is what I found: Accident and sickness insurance pays regardless of fault as long as the accident occurred during an official Scouting activity and the unit or council has purchased the coverage. So the thing about no trained individuals, no insurance seems to be a fabrication. Now, of course we can discuss what an "official Scouting Activity" is

His nephew was Clipper, the titlar hero was Schuyler (or Skyler) "Sky" King. His plane was the songbird but I beleive he had a second plane the Sky Bird. I don't think he had a horse, but he did have a lead dog King, wait a minut, the lead dog King was with Sgt Preston of the Yukon, with his lead dog King. Ah yes, reminds me a Fury, My Friend Flicka, and of course the redoubtable Circus Boy, such a cute kid, rumor has it he had modest success in a later career

Now I can see that merlyn was composing his reponse in the time I made my previous post so Cie l'vie (I think). But could you start arguing with other people rather than just between yourselves

Now Boys (Ed and Merlyn) do you two think you could let others play for awhile?

I was nosing about in other scouting forums (!) and came across a thought/slant/position that raised a question. A person posted that there really is no such thing as BSA insurance and all insurnace policies were actually held by the respective Councils. If this is true, this could explin why there are so many stories about what insurance will and wont cover, as it may be different in different places. Is this a thought?

I would suggest the Public School Prayer Amendment in the same way the founding fathers added the Bill of Rights to the Constitution. Many people didnt think they were necessary but others wanted to be explicit in what was to be allowed and not allowed. Why do we need one? So its clear its constitutional

So, Kahuna, then this is Aloha?

Although my esteemed colleque and friendly acquataince Mr Mori is correct, you may wish more documentation that "This guy Ed on the internet says ..." particularly if you wish to change Troop Culture you may want somehting from the BSA website, use :

Merlyn, I am a little confused. You asked Gold Winger to identify the school his kids go to so the ACLU could procure a "Christian" praying room to match the Muslim praying room. Is that accurate? Why would the ACLU want to procure a Christian Praying room? Isn't the placement of a Muslim and Chritian Praying rooms the state advocating those two belief systems? If a Jewish, Pagan, Hindu, Budhist, etc prayer rooms were to be added, and all belief sytems represented, wouldn't there have to then be a Atheist, "no prayer" room? I thought that Public schools were not suposed have any mention of religious beliefs advocated, what am I getting wrong?

ScoutingAgain, I apologize I didnt make myself clear. As has been stated many times, sometimes by myself and most recently by yourself, there is no prohibition against praying in public schools. Immediately prior to the SATs I beleive many prayers are said. I was talking about a school disitrct that sets out time for prayer. There seem to be many for this idea and many against. So, the best way of handling this is to draft an constitutional amendment and add it onto the constitution. If it passes, its the law of the land, if it doesnt pass, then those who advocate such things can be reminded they had a chance and if they wish to change things, they need a different result. We can argue all we want, what if somebody actually tried to make a change, then we could see what would happen

I have an idea, Why not draft a Constitutional Amendment allowing prayer in public schools? Something along the lines of if a referendum allowing prayer time in a public school district passes, then there is time for prayer. The arguments all seem to fall into the question of constitutionality. Well, actually that is an easy fix, a constitutional amendment to state what is allowed. Wouldnt that be easier?

in the above I agree with Merlyn, lets say in a heavily Islamic section of the country, like that suburban area in Detroit with the Muslim congressman wanted to have each day in the local public schools started with traditional Islamic prayers. Better yet to have all the traditional Islamic prayers said during the school day. Would that be ok? And there were a handful, not many mind you, just a handful of Jewish and Christian and other belief system followers attending, what would you do with them?(This message has been edited by oldgreyeagle)

I am looking for simple easy ways to intergrate scout skills on a campout. And when I say Scout Skills I mean those required in the Tenderfoot to First Class realm. Having a flag pole that needs to be lashed together and secured with guy lines is a thought, as is a Troop Gateway. Gateways may be dated, but they do reinforce knots and lashings. Having maps of the area and then having the patrols ue those maps to get to various locations is a way to assure proper map reading. Any others?

It does seem like the emphasis here is being sure the scout knows his skills and people want to be sure those skills are learned and want to verify that in the BOR. But that's not the way the program is supposed to be run. Alright, you may say smartypants, how is the program supposed to be run? I'll try to explain. Once a scout skill is learned, it becomes part of the scout. Every campout there is an opportunity for the scout to tie a square knot, a sheet bend, two half hitches and a taut line hitch (for example). Not because there is a patrol competition, but because those knots are required in camp set up. Now, with modern tents the knots are not as prevalent as they once were, but having guy lines are still required and if the PLC thinks about it, they can come up with situations that would require the use of knots, and lashings as well. It was once explained to me that the reason the BOR doesnt retest is because the board members know that the scout knows his skills because he couldnt be a member of the troop and not know them as he constantly uses them. If you have a troop with poor scout skills, is the better answer to have the BOR test the scouts or to have a program where the scout skills are used to the point that each scout fully knows them? THe idea of the BOR is the review the program. If the scout says, hey I don't know my knots but Bobby signed me off on them because he likes my sister, then you have two issues. The scout who doesnt know his knots and Bobby's ethics. If the scout's skills come into question, then the troops method of teaching and reinforcing those skills also have to come into question. We spend a lot of time talking about scouts who don't know their skills, but little on the best methods of teaching and retaining those skills

Zymurgy

the heck of it is I still dont know what is meant by a "gole"

so whats a "gole"?