OldGreyEagle

Great, another knot for the well heeled scouter to have and gloat with. "Look what I got for having the money to go to Philmont twice and roping a few cronies in to go as well". I had thought knots were honors bestowed on scouters, not something they earned. (well with rare exception, such as the Eagle, Arrow of Light, and religious award as a youth) Wearing a knot was supposed to mean the wearer did something extrordinary for the program, not that they have the resources to buy ornaments

here is an alternative view: To me Wood Badge is all about the beads. When I started attending Roundtables when my son first joined, I noticed in various discussions I could say something and it was as if my voice could not be heard. No one acknowledged what I said. Then, about 30 seconds later some guy with beads around his neck would say the same thing I did, and he was heralded as a genius. The message was clear, wear beads or be ignored. So, I got my beads and shazzam! When I spoke, people actually heard what I had to say, people other than in my unit knew my name, all because I wore beads. Then of course, fellow bead wearers would ask when I took Wood Badge, naively I would tell them, I was in the first Council session of the 21rst Century version and some oldtimers would grimace and turn away, I wasnt "their kind". Some Wood Badgers are all about the beads and what had to be done to earn them. This whole scouting nonsense is just peripheral dreck.

Back when I was a scout, in the mid '60s thorugh early '70s the troop I was in was a Civil Defense unit. I had my White Civil Defense helmet and emergency pack and was supposed to be ready to go at a moments call. I beleive I was in 7th grade at the time. As it was the troop was used to direct traffic for the 4th of July Fireworks exhibition. After a few major snowstorms the boy scouts were driven about in town vehicles clearing snow from fire hyrdrants.

Lets not change the subject Kudu, do you think your style in pointing out the foibles of the BSA to its proponents is the best way to have people think about your issues? On Friday, June 20 in this thread you posted: "As chance would have it, I recently landed in a Council where we will be able to structure the Patrols the same way. It is surprising how many of you attended Wood Badge where presumably the Patrols were all crowded together on a single parade field." I posted the Wood Badge course that I took had single patrols set at Troop Campsites and then you tell me that this is standard procedure. If this is the norm, why would you presume that many of us who took Wood Badge were crowded together on a single parage field. (This message has been edited by a staff member.)

it occurs to me, when I took Wood Badge for the 21rst Century, we did it at a Scout Summer Camp. Each patrol was at a Troop Campsite. Now, I admit I never did measure the distance between the sites, but they are large enough that we never did hear any noise from the adjacement patrols. It may well have been 300 feet, or close too, maybe more. Kudu, you say "You simply do not understand the purpose of Internet forums, John. They are a place to exchange ideas. You (and your nitwit fellow-travelers) lash out with personal attacks and you trivialize the great traditions of Scouting because your training does not allow you to think things that you assume the BSA no longer wants you to think" If indeed the purpose of Internet Fourms is to exhange ideas, do you think the best way to exhange an idea is to smack the other person over the head with your idea while hurling foul insults at them? What about that approach makes the other person go "By George, he may have a point there?"

You go to to the Grocery store and realize you are singing along with every song they are playing, even Sinatra's "these boots are made for walking"

Always thought this would be a great campfire skit Father Hello, my son and I would like to buy a tent, please. Mr Lambert : Certainly sir, I'll get someone to help you Father: thank you Lambert: Mr Verity! Mr Verity : Can I help you, sir? Father : Yes, we'd like a tent , and I wondered if you'd got one for about fifty pounds. Verity: Oh no, I'm afraid not, sir. Our cheapest tent is eight hundred pounds, sir. Father & Scout: Eight hundred pounds? Lambert: Excuse me, sir, but before I go, I ought to have told you that Mr Verity does tend to exaggerate. Every figure he gives you will be ten times too high. Father : I see. Lambert: Otherwise he's perfectly all right. Father : I see. Er... your cheapest tent then is eighty pounds? Verity: Eight hundred pounds, yes, sir. Father : I see. And how wide is it? Verity: It's sixty feet wide. Father : Yes... Scout: (whispers) Sixty feet! Father : (whispers) Six foot wide, you see. Scout: (whispers) Oh. Father : ...and the length? Verity: The length is ... er ... just a moment. Mr Lambert, what is the length of the Sierra Deluxe? Lambert: Ah. Two foot long. Father : Two foot long? Verity: Yes, remembering of course that you have to multiply everything Mr Lambert says by three. It's nothing he can help, you understand. Otherwise he's perfectly all right. Father : I see, I'm sorry. Verity: But it does mean that when he says a tent is two foot long, it is in fact sixty foot long, all right? Father : Yes, I see. Verity: That's without the ground cloth of course. Father : How much is that? Verity: Er, Mr Lambert will be able to tell you that. Lambert! Could you show these twenty good people the dog kennels, please? Father : Dog kennels? No, no, the ground cloths! Verity: I'm sorry, you have to say 'dog kennel' to Mr Lambert, because if you say ground cloths ' he puts a bucket* over his head. I should have explained. Otherwise he's perfectly all right. Father : Oh. Ah. I see. Er, excuse me, could you show us the dog kennels, please, hm? Lambert: Dog kennels? Father : Yes, we want to look at the dog kennels, hm. Lambert: Ah yes, well that's the pets' department, second floor. Father : No, no, no, we want to see the DOG KENNELS. Lambert (irritated): Yes, second floor. Father : No, we don't want to see dog kennels, it's just that Mr Verity said that... Lambert: Oh dear, what's he been telling you now? Father : Well, he said we should say 'dog kennels' instead of saying ' ground cloths '. (Lambert puts bucket on his head) Father : Oh dear. Hello? Hello? Hello? Verity: (approaching) Did you say ground cloths Father : Well, yes, er... Lambert: (muffled) I'm not coming out! Verity: I did ask you not to say ground cloths, didn't I? Father : But I mean, er... Lambert: (muffled) I'm not! Father : Oh. Verity: Now I've got to get him to the fish tank and sing. Father : Oh. Verity: (sings) And did those feet, in ancient time... Another assistant: (walking up, hearing the singing) Oh dear, did somebody say ground cloths to Mr Lambert? Father : Yes, I did. (Assistant gives nasty look at Father ) Verity: (still singing) ...walk upon England's mountains green... (Assistant joins in) ...and was the Holy Lamb of God... (Lambert removes bucket; Verity and Assistant immediately stop singing; assistant leaves.) Verity: He should be all right now, but don't...you know...*don't*! Father : No, no. (to Lambert) Excuse me, could we see the dog kennels please? Lambert (irritated): Yes, pets department, second floor. Father : No, no, no. Those dog kennels, like that. You see? Lambert: ground cloth? Father : (relieved) Yes. Lambert: But if you want a ground cloth, why not say ground cloth? Father : (nervously) Ha ha, I mean... Lambert: I mean, it's a little confusing for me when you say 'dog kennel' if you want a ground cloth. Why not just say ground cloth? Father : But you put a bucket over your head last time we said ground cloth (Lambert puts the bucket over his head again) Verity: (running on the scene again) Oh dear! (sings) And did those feet... Assistant: (to Father ) We did ask! (duet) ...in ancient times, walk upon England's mountains green... (singing continues throughout the next few lines of dialogue) Yet another assistant: (running in) Did somebody say ground cloths to Mr Lambert? (Cleese points angrily towards the Father and Scout) Verity: Twice! Other Assistant: (shouting throughout the store) Hey, everybody! Somebody said ground cloths to Mr Lambert -- twice! (joins in the singing) (they carry on singing) Verity: It's not working, we need more! _(The entire troop begins to sing in the background. eventually Lambert removes the bucket again and they stop singing)_ Lambert: I'm sorry, can I help you? Scout: (brightly) We want a ground cloth _(Lambert puts the bucket over his head again. Verity, Father and assistants all groan and glare accusingly at scout)_ Scout: But it's my only line!!!

Speaking as a native of Chicago, well, I was born there and raied in the Western suburbs, I do wonder why no political convention has come there since '68. C'mon, so Mayor Dayley's cops got a little enthusiastic, surely all the cops who were on active duty back then have retired or gone on to desk jobs. Why must Chicago be stigmatized forever, I say its about time for a political party to come back to Chicago for its convention. Actually, Chicago politics being what it is, I guess there is only one possible party who would come, and that is the one in Denver this year. I mean goss ole golly ole gee whizz, I am sure this Mayor Daley's police would be much better behaved, not that some of the Yippies didnt deserve some of what they got

The camp I will visit has "Farm Mechanics" listed, I guess the old tractor will be well cared for this year

Didn't you mean to put this in the "You know your getting old when thread"? ::evil grin:: Conrats all around

Ye Pow'rs, wha mak mankind your care,And dish them out their bill o fare,Auld Scotland wants nae skinking ware That jaups in luggies: But, if ye wish her gratefu prayer, Gie her a Haggis!

GW, do you want any o' mi leftover haggis?

When you think of the perfect most defintive answer to put down and then forget it in the time it takes to bring the forum page up...

See. I was going to put in the "You know when you are getting old" thread something about recognizing lines from Monty Python and I have found out most youth know the dialogue better than I do. Perhaps that is when you know you are getting old, when the youth know the Monty Python lines better than you do. Anyway, Gwd, a tip of the hat to you and will the boys be lashing together that sedan chair to provide you with transportation this year?

Acco, you have guys who still show half of their boxers? Man that is so 90's,

Magik, what are the methods of scouting?

well, sure a troop Could require that a scout be in full uniform for a BOR and yes, they would be going against National Policy if they did. Doesn't mean that it doesn't happen.

Perhaps your recruiting would go better if you thought of prospective scouts joining the Troop, and not the BSA. Its not the BSA they will be camping with, its not the BSA who will plan and develop the program/activities that you will be doing, its the troop and its resources. Dont ask the youth to join the BSA, ask them to come and share the adventures you are planning, the scout stuff then follows

I wonder if any organization, composed of volunteers, is as inclusive as they can be. I know that as I travel around the country I find many guys in my age range, 50-60 that were Boy Scouts. Now, I thought being a scout was the bestest thing in the world, and I loved it. I have found many men who do not have pleasent things to say about the Boy scouts due to many factors. Mean adults is usually the best way to express their feelings, but I wouldnt say that in the 60' and 70's the BSA didnt do what it could to stop scoutmasters from being mean. When my son got old enough to join up we did. He is an Eagle as I am. I think the troop I serve is as accomodating as can be. From my experience with other guys my age I have to say that scouting is certainly local. One troop can have a mentality that would chase all but the hardest core away while others accept everyone. I recognize I fell into two great experiences, as a youth and with my son. It was the volunteers who make the program what it is. Get a different mix of volnteers and life could have been very different for me. To categorize an entire national organization based on a single unit is not fair, whether the unit is good or poor. The BSA strives to be inclusive, does that mean each unit chartered today would take every applicant regardless of challenge? Nope, it don't. (This message has been edited by a staff member.)

When I was at Camp School to be a SHooting Sports Director, it was told to us, nay, hammered into us that a safety is a mechanical device and can fail so it is better to assume all guns are ready to fire regardless of safety position. You keep your finer off the trigger until you have your target in the sights and are ready to shoot, only then do you touch the safety. Walking around with your finger on the trigger of a loaded gun is not ok because the safety is on. Now, you might not do that, but a youth may

I hope I get this right, if I don't I shall present myself for public stoning, or at least public humiliation, wait, I do that daily anyway... So, its my understanding that Girl Scouts start going to camp much sooner (younger age) than do Boy Scouts and very rarely do Girl Scouts go to camp as a troop, the Girl Scout Camps are usually 100% populated with what Boy Scouts would call provisional campers, individuals on their own. Who writes home for them? Who looks after them? Can those with Girl Scout experience confirm or deny what I htink I know?

Have the adults take the adult Venturing Training as soon as possible and have your youth elect their officiers and start doing stuff. Nothing will grow your program like excited youth comming back from an event. At first the adults will have to do a lot of the planning and coordination, but set early the expectation that the adults are to draw back and the youth take over. Follow the ideas and do the program capability inventory and interest survery found in the trainig mateials and then have a blast. At about the six month mark see if you can get the crew to a VLSC, run either by your adults but hopefully by the Disitrct or Council. It works better with many crews participating. Oh yeah be sure you have fun doing it as the youth will pick up on your attitudes, you have fun the youth will have fun and then the adults have more fun, its a beautiful thing

What area of the country are you in?

After reading this thread over again, perhaps some are taking the wrong tact Ahoydave, I am sorry you and your son had the experience you had. It was not one you would have had had you been in the Troop I serve. It does not appear to have been the type of experience you and your son would have had if you were in some of the other poster's troop. The sad reality is, your experience was your experience and all the nifty stories we have are antedoctal. Scouting is local and nothing we can say will alter your experience. I can only ask you accept assurances from myself and others here that Special Needs kids are welcomed into troops and Councils find ways to accomadate youth with special needs. I have never seen a bias against special needs kids in the BSA, but I can't speak to your perceptions. I only wish the best for you and your son and hope you have some good memories from the program

The Venturing Tabs are Spruce Green, the Boy Scout Tabs are Forest green, big difference.