OldGreyEagle

emb, I don't know how Venturing is run in any other Council, I can only go on my experience. When I was Venturing Chair, the only people interested in being on the Council Venturing Committee were Venturing adults who were also active on the local unit level. In the Council I serve, District and Council Committees are usually filled with adults who no longer have youth in the program. Since there were no Ventuting Scouters whose youth had aged out of the program as yet, there wasnt a lot of people to pull from who had Venturing experience so I thought going to the Council Committees assigned the role of training and camping would be a good idea. On the Council Chart I was given, it said Training Committe, not Cub and Boy Scout Training Committee, I thought they were to service Venturing as well or at least help. Similarly the Camping Committee is not labeled Cub and Boy Scout Camping, I thought they could/should help Venturing out. Instead, Venturing was regarded as the step child that volunteers didnt understand, and still dont and many dont want to try to understand. So, what happened? Venturing has developed as a step child. We have separate Roundtables/Forums from the Cub and Boy Scouts. We have our own Training Committee, we have our own Activities Committee. All duplications of exisitng committees that serve to only enhance the separation and increase the sense of isolation and I dont think thats the way its supposed to work.

I hope you don't mind a book answer. Climbing on a Horizontal wall or a Commercial Site is approved for all scouts, from Tigers on up. Bouldering is also allowed from Tigers on up. then again the minimum age you mentioned may be due to the facility you are going to so of course you follow their rules as well. Check the Age Appropriate Guideline in the Guide to Safe Scouting http://dev2.scouting.org/pdf/34416.pdf The kids will love to climb!

I don't know how many of you have ever known a PhD canidate who only has to finish the thesis. Lisabob has known a few I am sure and perhaps Packsaddle. Everyone knows that when completing your thesis, back up copies placed in multiple places is best practice. Every once in awhile you hear of a canidate who loses 2 years worth of work or so because they didnt back up the date. Some are afforded the opportunity to learn this lesson earlier. The signatures shouldnt be that hard to recreate, if the Sponsoring Organization signs off that the project was done, I would think that the Disitrct rep would be satisfied, not happy mind you

I have a newer Scouting Urban Legends, Scouters who ask questions on Internet Forums do not have the capacity to read answers, weigh responses and determine the best course of action for their situation

Did the camp operate this year?

Eamonn, you may be a mixer, but from what I understand, you are very clean...

See, now, I was thinking the Goddess of Victory, but then I thought may be its just a runner angling for an endorsement deal. Either way, good luck, although they may be windmills you are tilting at. BTW, some males I know wear 2 inch heels, but I don't think Tony Lama's are what you meant.

I respectfully suggest that National Level Training is much more dependent on the quality of the instruction/instructor than the facilities. Most of the Wood Badge Course sessions I attended were in a fairly old dining hall that had seen much better days, it did not diminish the quality of the content

Gwd, the proper response in such a case is to look at them quizzically and state, "Have you never studied?" (from Ghostbusters Egon to Venkman)

Carefule there SMEagle819, one could interpret your post above as merely giving a "book answer"...

I gave a source, from a book, as the title of the thread was ""by the book" who makes disciplinary decisions?" Lisabob posted: " am looking for a "book" answer (NOT A DEBATE over best practices - that's another thread) and I don't have the books in question. Hoping for a few folks here who do, to provide a quick answer." In her second paragraph she asks "Is there anything in either the SM handbook or in the SPL's handbook about who makes disciplinary decisions?" Not having a copy of either handbook, but wishing to provide, in Lisabob's own words "...a quick answer". I gave the quote from the Guide to Safe Scouting, which is online for Lisabob to read, and print. A quote which answered the specific question that was asked. BobWhite gave references in BSA literature, which I think qualifies as a book. Acco made a comment and Lisabob thanked us. And now somehow this approach, providing a straight answer to a straight question is looked upon as not being the best practice. I don't understand

Sorry guys, I was at a Jethro Tull Concert last night and was too tired to check things out. On the whole, I would have rather been here then there, Ian Anderson can still play the flute, but the music was uninspired. I would have done better blasting my best of Tull tape up to "11"

Its not like everyone gets to visit Disney World either, yea I know it would be great but reality is reality I have no doubt that a trip to PTC is worth the money, but first you have to have the money, and that is not always possible. Has there ever been a thought to make PTC level courses available in places other than PTC?

SO, the question was asked, Who is Council, I think it was asked, anyway I am asking it. Ed says its whoever is employed by the Council he serves. I can see that, but if that is true, then if a DE says its ok to mandate that all candidates for an Eagle Board of Review must be in full and complete uniform, would it be proper to say that Council says all Eagle candidates must be in full and complete uniform? Awhile back I was the Council Venturing Chairman. The Scout Executive was very supportive of Venturing. I asked the Council Training Chairman if his commmittee would help with training Venturing Adults. He said no, that we would have to be a bigger group for him to help us. I replied that if we were a bigger group we wouldnt need his help. He said to check back with him when we were larger. So, the Professional was supportive, the Volunteer not so much. Could I say I had or lacked Council Support for training Venturing Leaders. We had a Venturing Cardboard Boat Regatta, the boats do actually float, well for awhile. But, the Council let us use the Council Camp and facilities at no cost to us, only an understanding we would leave the place better than we found it. So, I had Council Support for Venturing's Cardboard Boat Regatta. Then, while talking to some Council Camping Committee members about a Venturing week of camp I was told we were to small and expensive to dedicate a whole week of camp to. So, again, I did not have Council support. I think the inevitable answer is found in Walt Kelley's Pogo Comic Strip, "We have met the enemy....and he is us."

The topic of whether a knot should be worn or not was a topic last night at Roundtable. (I should have said knight) One scoutmaster made the case that since we encourage the youth to earn ranks and acheivements, and show them on the uniform, should we not also? If we expect the youth to be proud of being a scout and their acheivements, why shouldn't we?

Way back when I was a youth, after Brownsea (and I dont mean a local NYLT) but before the demise of the Red Berets, the Troop of my youth went to the Grand Canyon. Now, since we lived in the suburbs of Chicago this was quite an undertaking, getting there and returning on the Milwaukee Road was as much an adventure as being there. We camped on the South Rim and had planned to do Rim to Rim to Rim, but the trail on the North rim was "out" and so we did the Kaibob to Phantom Ranch and then back up to the South Rim by the Visitor Center. The exact names are a blur. But, it was put together by our scoutmaster who had gone to Philmont and thought it was too comercialized and easy. This was 1967 by the way. Anyway, we did it then and the troop has gone back a few times since then

My Eagle knot, Arrow of Light and Religious award as a Youth knot as it represents my scouting youth. My Disitrct Award of Merit knot as it was given to me by members of the District I serve, Council Venturing Leadership Knot, as the nomination was filled out by the youth of the Crew (did I mention one of wich is now the DE of the District I serve?) and the Religious Award as an adult knot, because I was nominated for it by members of the District.

Has anyone communicated directly with the SE to see why things were done as they were?

This is from the Guide to Safe Scouting: "Unit Responsibilities Adult leaders of Scouting units are responsible for monitoring the behavior of youth members and interceding when necessary. Parents of youth members who misbehave should be informed and asked for assistance in dealing with it. The BSA does not permit the use of corporal punishment by unit leaders when disciplining youth members. The unit committee should review repetitive or serious incidents of misbehavior in consultation with the parents of the child to determine a course of corrective action including possible revocation of the youth's membership in the unit. If problem behavior persists, units may revoke a Scout's membership in that unit. When a unit revokes a Scout's membership, it should promptly notify the council of the action." So, the Unit Committee is responsible for making disciplinary decsions for repetitive or serious incidents and the adult on the outing handle the "minor" issues. Of course that opens discussion for what is a minor issue versus a major incident but that is another discussion from how I perceive LisaBobs question

No known BSA "rule" would prevent this

A few years back I went to Camp School to be a Shooting Sports Director. There were quite a few under 25 year olds running around and many had tattoos, one guy had flames starting at his wrist runnning up both arms. He was to be a Program Director. The tats are comming, whether they are liked or not

competing references: http://www.scouting.org/BoyScouts/GuideforMeritBadgeCounselors/RankAdvanceFAQ.aspx Question: How is the information from the Eagle Scout Rank Application assessed by the board of review? Answer: The unit committee reviews and approves the Eagle candidate's record before his application is submitted to the local council. If a unit leader or unit committee member does not sign or approve his application, the Eagle candidate may still be granted a board of review. However, the failure to secure such a signature may be considered by the board of review in determining the Eagle candidate's qualifications. So, according to this, you can't prevent the Eagle Board of Review, but certainly the reasons why you or anyone else from the Troop didnt sign/approve his application would be fodder for discussion. I am not saying he should get Eagle, far from it. I think you do what you feel needs to be done, if he wants a BOR, then he gets one. Certainly the information that you presented here may be presented to the BOR and then you step back.

I am sorry, but I have to ask. You dropped your nephew off at an Eagle Candidates house at 10pm and didnt return until 11:45pm at which time you learned no one was at home? You didnt make sure your nephew was safe in the house at 10pm? Am I reading this right? I dont mean to make a big deal out of this, but it just strikes me as odd that anyone would go to a meeting that starts at 10pm, especially scout aged youth and that parents would allow them to do so.

If the first project is said to have been completed, is it written up? It will be the BOR's job to review it and judge it Eagle worthy or not. You can, and should of course, counsel the scout with suggestions and opinions, but he may have to learn this one on his own. It is your impression that the scout did the project with his family and one other youth. Are you sure? Could others have helped that you dont know about? BTW, are you exaggerating about the troop waiting 2 hours for him? I know the guys in the troop I serve wouldnt stand still for 15 minutes let alone 120

I have to second BobWhites suggestion. That the adults should talk less and question more. I call it the Socratic Method of teaching scouting. Ask questions, they may have to be leading at times, but they are always questions. Never tell the scout what to do, ask him what should be done and agree when the answer makes sense, point out alternatives when the answer does not.