OldGreyEagle

First I have to ask how far from the zoo do you live? I loved the Brookfield Zoo growing up in the 'burbs. When you nominate the person of which you speak, how much do you write? How much text do you have? Don't just list dates and offices/positions held, explain in detail what he has done. Give examples of how his service improves the program. We have several on the disitrct I serve who are Silver Beaver quality, it just has to be explained how and why they would qualify BTW I like your name, I take it the name Uncas is inspired by the James Fenimore Cooper novel "Last of the Mohicans", do you know where the model for the charactor Uncas is buried?(This message has been edited by OldGreyEagle)

Lisabob, I woud venture to think that the Organizatin has pre-conceived notions over what the BSA has to offer, after all, its a Camping and Outdoor Club, right? Start off by establishing that while Venturing is part of the BSA their Crew may be Co-ed, males only or female only. Ask them what they want. Make their interaction part of your presentation, you want them to start working on their crew as soon as possible, like then. Next list the various areas that Venturing has, Out Doors, Religious Life, Arts and Hobbies, Sports and Sea Scouts. Then ask them what osrt of Crew they want. They most likley wont know so be sure to tell them they dont have to decide then or actually ever. Most Crews I know have a rather ecletic nature and tend to do activities that encompass many interests. It will be up to the youth to decide. Now, if the organizatin has a religious overtone, Religious Life will be a natural. Remember to reinforce however that membership in a Religious Life Crew does not mean the youth are restricted to only Religious Life recongnitions, the Bronze and the Trust. Members may also earn the Outdoor Bronze and Ranger, the Sports bronze and Quest, etc. Then ask if they have a nucleus of members and what their interest is. Establish who are candiates for the adult positions and when they can start talking to the youth establish what program is desired. It can be exciting as the potential for each new crew is virtually inlimited They will ask about how many adults do we need, hjow many youth, give them the training dates, in the District I serve we usually schedule a date to train the advisors and committee because I am the District Venturing trainer. As they ask questions, ask them how they would like to see it done, most of the time, they will be able to answer them themselves(This message has been edited by OldGreyEagle)

I adapted this a few years back, always a chorterler Who is the Scoutmaster? The skit begins with a uniformed Scout/Scouter standing on stage when another person enters the stage, preferably wearing a hat with the word PRESS written on an index card and placed in the hat band. Reporter: Are you the representative of Troop XXX in XXX? Scout: Yes sir. Are you the reporter I am supposed to meet? Reporter: Yes I am. My paper thinks a story on your troop would be interesting, its supposed to be very unique. Scout: Yes, after all, we are the finest troop in XXX Council! Reporter: Well, I am glad you are proud of your troop, now tell me about the leaders. Scout: Lets see now, WHO is the Scoutmaster, WHAT is the Senior Patrol Leader and I DONT KNOW, the Quartermaster. Reporter: Well thats just great. I dont think you are the right person for this. Scout: And Why not? Reporter: Do you know the leaders names or not? Scout: Yes I do. Reporter: OK, then who is the Scoutmaster? Scout: Yes. Reporter: I mean the guys name. Scout: WHO. Reporter: Who is your Scoutmaster? Scout: Right. Reporter: Wait, Repeat what you just said. Scout: WHO is the Scoutmaster. Reporter: Youre asking me? Scout: I am not asking you, I am telling you , WHO is the Scoutmaster. Reporter: But I am asking, Who is the Scoutmaster? Scout: Thats the mans name. Reporter: Thats whose name? Scout: Yes. Reporter: Well, out with it, tell me Scout: WHO. Reporter: The Scoutmaster. Scout: WHO is the Scoutmaster. Reporter: I can see I am getting nowhere with this. Scout: I am answering your questions honestly. Reporter: Hey, I was a scout once. Made it to star when a boy is ready to advance a rank, he has a Scoutmaster Conference right? Scout: Yes. Reporter: So, Who does the conference? Scout: Exactly! Reporter: Wait you are confusing me, what is the Scoutmasters name? Scout: Actually no, WHAT is the Senior Patrol Leader. Reporter: But I am not asking you who is the Senior Patrol Leader. Scout: WHO is the Scoutmaster. Reporter: Thats what I am trying to find out. Scout: Well dont change the subject. Reporter: Me??? Scout: Now take it easy. Reporter: The Scoutmasters name is what? Scout: WHAT is the name of the Senior Patrol Leader. Reporter: I am not asking who is the Senior Patrol Leader. Scout: WHO is the Scoutmaster. Reporter: I DONT KNOW! Scout: Oh, thats the Quartermaster, but we are not talking about him. Reporter: How did the subject change to the Quartermaster? Scout: You mentioned his name. Reporter: I mentioned his name? Who the Quartermaster? Scout: No, WHO is the Scoutmaster. Reporter: Stay away from the Scoutmaster, OK? Scout: You started it Reporter: What is the Scoutmasters name? Scout: WHAT is the Senior Patrol Leader. Reporter: I am not asking you who is the Senior Patrol Leader. Scout: WHO is the Scoutmaster. Reporter: I DONT KNOW! Scout: He is the Quartermaster. Reporter: There we go, back to the Quartermaster. Scout: Well, I cant help it. Reporter: Say, Lets stick with the Quartermaster. Scout: Sure. Reporter: So, What is the Quartermasters name? Scout: What is the Senior Patrol Leader. Reporter: I am not asking you who is the Senior Patrol Leader. Scout: WHO is the Scoutmaster. Reporter: I DONT KNOW! Scout: The Quartermaster. Reporter: Does your troop have a Scribe? Scout: Sure, every good troop has a Scribe. Reporter: The Scribes name? Scout: WHY. Reporter: Oh, I thought I would just ask. Scout: Well then, I thought I would just tell you. Reporter: OK, Who is the Scribe? Scout: WHO is the Scoutmaster. Reporter: What is the name of the Scribe? Scout: WHAT is the name of the Senior Patrol Leader. Reporter: I am not asking you who is the Senior Patrol Leader. Scout: WHO is the Scoutmaster. Reporter: I DONT KNOW! BOTH: The Quartermaster Reporter: And the Librarians name? Scout: LATER. Reporter: Oh, just forget the Librarian. Do you have a Troop Committee Chairman in this troop? Scout: Of course, we wouldnt be the finest troop in XXX Council without the finest Committee ChairPERSON. Reporter: OK, tell me the Troop Committee ChairPERSONs name. Scout: TOMORROW. Reporter: You dont want to tell me now? Scout: I am telling you the name, TOMORROW. Reporter: Not today? Scout: TOMORROW. Reporter: When tomorrow? Scout: When? Reporter: When Tomorrow are you gonna tell me who is the Troop Committee Chairman? Scout: Now listen, WHO is not the Troop Committee Chairperson, WHO is the . Reporter: Please dont say WHO is the Scoutmaster. Scout: You are asking the questions. Reporter: I want to know what is the name of the Troop Committee Chairperson? Scout: WHAT is the name of the Senior Patrol Leader. Reporter: I DONT KNOW! Both: The Quartermaster. Reporter: You know, I have a son that would like to join Boy Scouts. Scout: You do? Reporter: Yeah, I think the only way to find out these peoples names is to have him join the troop. Scout: I am sure he would be a fine addition. Reporter: Well, I think I will bring him to your nest meeting. Scout: That would be great! Reporter: And while I am there I want to talk to the Scoutmaster. Scout: I would think so. Reporter: And I take my son and talk to Who? Scout: Now thats the first right thing you have said. Reporter: HUH??? I DONT EVEN KNOW WHAT I AM TALKING ABOUT!!! Scout: Well you should talk to WHO. Reporter: Oh, I talk to WHO? Scout: After all, WHO is the Scoutmaster. Reporter: I talk to WHO Scout: Yes. Reporter: So after I talk to WHO, the Scoutmaster, I then talk to the Senior Patrol Leader and his name is WHAT? Scout: Yes sir. Reporter: And then I talk to the Quartermaster . Scout: I DONT KNOW. Reporter: OK, WHO is the Scoutmaster, WHAT is the Senior Patrol Leader and I DONT KNOW is Quartermaster. Scout: By George, I think youve got it. Youre the one who said we were unique I thought you knew about the names. Reporter: But doesnt that cause a lot of STRESS? Scout: STRESS, thats the guy keeping track of rank advancement. Reporter: Lets see, WHO, WHAT, I DONT KNOW, WHY, TOMORROW, STRESS, they are all names? Holy Smoke! Scout: Thats our Troop Chaplain. Reporter: Im leaving. This is NUTS. Scout: NUTS, Thats our Council Scout Executive

On the other hand, when was the last time you had a bunch of scouting aged youth listen all night to Bach, Mozart or Chopin?

See along time ago, really long, after Brownsea Island but before the end of the red berets, I was a youth and was learning the definition of Liberal and Conservative. I was told, though I have ni idea by who, that a liberal was someone who was not afraid of change and was open to new ideas. That there are those that look at things the way they are, and ask, 'Why?' while others dream of things that never were, and ask 'Why not?' And that Conservatives were people who liked the way things were, and how much better things were in the "good old days". So, I thought I would like to be a liberal and always thought of my self as one. Until I was accused of being a liberal on this forum a few years back. I didnt realize it was meant as an insult until someone PM'ed me with an explanation

OK Calico, I like how you think. I was thinking Regressive was the antonym to Progressive mostly because they both end in gressive. Its lucky I didnt think much more about it and went with Agressive as in the abscence of going back or forward but Staticist has a good ring to it. It means things are acceptable the way they are now and there is no reason to change. I think I have that, let me know if I dont. The issue then becomes, Acceptable to who?

Actually I am surprised no one said that ursus snorous roarus was wrong and that BobWhite should teach a kid how to teach a kid to tie a knot, there I feel better

I don't mean to ruin your analogy Eamonn, but if J.K. Rowling announced tomorrow that in a year one last Harry Potter book would be for sale, kids would start queing up in six months to get it. Kids do read when what they read interests them. Kids will eat what interests them, its learning what interests them and presenting it in a way that interests them that gets results.

It would be fun to ask where does it say that, meanwhile, in the Guide to SAfe Scouting it says: A Webelos Scout may participate in overnight den camping when supervised by an adult. In most cases, the Webelos Scout will be under the supervision of his parent or guardian. It is essential that each Webelos Scout be under the supervision of a parent-approved adult. Joint Webelos den-troop campouts including the parents of the Webelos Scouts are encouraged to strengthen ties between the pack and troop. Den leaders, pack leaders, and parents are expected to accompany the boys on approved trips http://www.scouting.org/healthandsafety/gss/gss03.aspx#aa Note that part about Webelos den-Troop Campouts, it doesnt say Campout singular, its plural. Plus, how do you strengthem ties between pack and troop by a campout once a year?

How did the boy learn (originally) how to run the troop?

Then again, if they can afford the xbox or a computer with internet access, then the question equipment cost probably wont be an issue. The scoutreach district in the council I serve provides the basic equipment for camping because these are youth who do not have xboxes, or internet access or even $200 dollar sneakers

Stosh, just as an aisde, how much time per week would you say you average with your troop? Just the Troop?

So, are there terms that can be used that describe the factions that are not prejudicial from the start?

Horizon, that is the point that I was trying to make, clumsily as it appears, you say you are "progressive" as far as the definition thrown out here and I ask if that means people who beleive opposite to you are then "regressive". Now, perhaps to you they are, but saying that you are progressive and the "other guys" are regressive only serves to label each group and get people talking about labels rather then the real issue. Do people have the right to enroll their children in a program that has the same values they do. No mention of judgement, no saying the group is progressive, regressive, modern, old fashioned, just that there is a group that has values some people want. The issue then becomes, if BSA wants to expand membership, then it may have to look at its membership qualifications. Does it say that sexual orientation of adult members is not an issue and that Atheists are also welcome. I am torn myself. I don't see how much different the BSA would be with gay scout leaders, and no, I dont equate Homosexuality with pedaphilia or whatever term is used with adolescents. I know so many troops that do not have much of a religious component so that an Atheist in it wouldnt have to much trouble. Troops, or rather CO's that would require a faith would still be able to do so much as some CO's prohibit female adults. Using lables just muddies the water. I remember the Abortian debate, if you are against abortion you are pro-life, so those who support abortion are pro-death. That didnt sound very good so they co-opted the phrase "pro choice". Is there some other terms that could be used instead of progressive, regressive, family values, tradiional values?

BullDog, I guess it depends on what you mean as a satanist or a communist. One could say that the very early christian church was very much a communistic community. Everyone took care of everyone else which moved the comment from Tertullian "See how these Christians love one another". The problem is, in recent times, say from 1900 on, I am not sure there has been a true Communistic Society of any import. Satanist is another nebulous term, do you mean one who worships evil? Participates in a "Black Mass" or one who worships spirits unknown to most? The problem with using the word Tradition is just what is meant by Tradition, Tevye's comments notwithstanding? The terms Tradition and Family Values are huge sinkholes of rhetoric. I can say I hold to traditional family values, but what does that mean? Something quite different to most of us than to the polygamy group in Texas I am sure.

Interesting use of words and I love sematics, but saying that, I have to comemnt. In the parent thread its says: "Progressive parents won't enroll their kids in a program that exclude people based on religion or sexual preference." So, I start to think, what about parents who wish to enroll their kids in a program that does exclude people based on religion or sexual preference? Does that make them "regressive parents"?

"Now if those same guys were chatting with some young ladies, you learned quickly that gas passing was appropriate." where did you grow up again?

Ed, a point I was trying to make is that just because somebody takes training and beleives the trainer doesnt mean they are blindly following. I guess I take "blindly following" as a negative phrase. When I was in school, I blindly followed the teacher who said 1+1=2, and 2+2=4. I blindly followed because I didnt know enough to question the teacher. I guess the best method is to take everything presented at a training course as hear say and then check it with available resources to verify its validity. Of course, if you had the references and time to do that, why would you go to training courses in the first place?

Holy Cow GNXGuy, I missed your comment about my post the first time around. You are going to have to show me where I said or even implied that PTC training was a waste, in another thread I asked if PTC level training was ever available in places other than PTC as I would like to attend and the cost of travel to PTC for me is prohibitive. I had always thought that knots were awarded for acheivements or service and that were open to anyone. Anyone, well any male, can earn Eagle, Arrow of Light or Religious award as a youth and then after that, anyone can earn or receive the rest of the knots. Some are much harder than others and then the BSA came up with the James West knot, the knot you buy. Then there is the PTC knot. I can see in a few years a whole bunch of PTC knots popping up in New Mexico, Arizona, Texas, and a whole bunch of other western states. On the east coast there will be far fewer of them but that doesnt mean the east coast thinks PTC is a waste, it just costs a whole lot more to get there. Thats all, if anyone thinks I disparaged training, I really did not intend to and would like to have the verbage pointed out as I do not want to make that error again(This message has been edited by OldGreyEagle)

Way back in the last Century, I took New Leader Training. I don't know what its actual title was, the course names and content have changed a bit. Anyway, I was at training, it was a weekend campout and by patrol we were going on a round robin series. We got to Wood Tools and there was a long time District Committee member who went over Wood Tools. He did state, rather emphatically I may add, that sheath knives were prohibited by the BSA. I now know that he was wrong. But I wouldnt say I blindly followed what he had to say. I accepted it because he was the instructor. When people take training courses, its not generally in their nature to question the reference to everything taught. Leastwise not in my nature

"It would be nice to have a data base of places near you that ranks different backpacking trails and campgrounds. Save us from re creating the wheel over and over." Some OA Lodges, The Honor Camping Society of Boy Scouts, have such a resource. In other Council this type of information is sometimes available from the Camping Committee or by attending Roundtables.

hey Lisabob, I hear you. This year, 2008, is Venturing's 10th anniversary. That fact that you werent too sure if it had been around 10 or 15 years speaks volumes, especially since you recently took Wood Badge and still werent too sure. I am not sure how long a program stays "new", I know the Venturing Leader Manual is BSA publication 34655E with a new version due out this fall I hear. So, in 10 years we have had 5 versions and possibly a 6th. I don't know what was done in other Councils, but I can tell you that Venturing was poorly rolled out here. It was presented, a few years after it began, as a loosy goosey do anything you wanted sorta Co-ed program. It was presented as a program that didnt have the "mickey mouse" rules that Boy Scouts have and attracted leaders who wanted to do their own thing away from what was seen as the "heavy handed bureaucracy" of council (read for the rules). So, crews sprang up, and died because what some leaders thought kids would want to do, wasnt that much fun, to the kids. Then, as Council started to say things to the leaders like "Guide to Safe Scouting" and having Commissioners and Forums and a lot of adults left, because they said Venturing was getting as 'mickey mouse" as Boy scouts. I interpret that as saying, "they want us to follow the program" but I digress So, how "new" is Venturing? The BSA started in 1910. I wonder how many Troops sprang up in 1910-1911 and were vibrant organizations and were gone by 1920? Do any of the historians know? I am sure the BSA showed growth, more units this year than last year, but how many troops have continuity? Always in existence? I know people in Venturing (like me) have pushed for National Venturing event. When was the First National Jamboree scheduled? I think in reltive terms Venturing is still new, it will take awhile to develop the leadership and continuity that is the foundation of Boy Scouts. I am sure if you took a bunch of adults in 1920 marking the end of 10 years of scouting, there would be many who would question its future, how can we keep this thing going. Lucky for us, there were enough who thought enough of the program to keep it moving. I see Venturing the same way. We need to develop the base of Volunteers

Does anyone remember the name of this thread? Who is Coucil Anyway? I am not sure where it disintigrated to the failings of myself and the council I serve, nor do I understand why

"Most people who have been involved with Venturing more then a year or so call them Roundtables, because calling them Forums is a very recent change..." I agree with the above, and because Venturing is new and a lot of people not in Venturing are aware if its terms and vocabulary and things have changed quite often. So perhaps it would behoove us all not to land with both feet on someone who posts questions about a Venture Crew, or Venturing Scouts or otherwise mangle the Venturing lexicon, I dont think its done with malice so no malice ought be returned

I didnt think there was such a thing as a Venturing Roundtable, A Venturing Forum perhaps but a rose by any other name...