OldGreyEagle

GoldWinger used the phrase: "Where can we point the fingers? At BSA with it's misunderstood FCFY emphasis..." Which meant to be me that it is not so much a BSA issue as a problem leaders have understanding the First Class First Year program Then Beavah says: "GW pointed out some of the likely suspects, eh? Summer Camps, Merit Badge Universities, and FCFY..." followed up by "I've seen da misunderstanding of FCFY drive a lot of it, too,..." So apparently all who have posted understand it's a misunderstanding of First Class emphasis that is the issue, not that FCFY is the problem. Thanks to BobWhite for his excellent description of a mis-understood and mis-used BSA program(This message has been edited by OldGreyeagle)

Most of the ladies in my area adored the "bump" and a few were into the earliest forms of Freak Dancing. Dancing the waltz, foxtrot, tango, cha-cha, samba, and rumba? Did you also enter the club with your pocket protector still in your shirt or did you at least leave it with the satchel that had the finished science paper due next month in the car? You did leave the satchel in the car, right?

As I remember the Disco Era, Tony Manero notwithstanding, was far more about how you looked and how much you had as opposed to how well you danced. Well in my corner of the world at least

I am not sure I understand. The answer is to add more requirements rather than assure that the existing requirments are as Ed has stated, followed? Maybe its time to have carefully selected and trained adults present the program. Having an Accredited BSA Troop program wouldnt hurt either.

My understanding was that a presidential veto can be over ridden by congress so if the legislation is wanted by enough people, then the veto gets over ridden. Ok, the bill is about giving a promising Cancer Research Project a million dollars, and some COngressman adds a bridge in his District gets replaced and its against the rules for the President to say yes to Cancer Research and no to the bridge. Great system we got And wouldnt a constitutional amendment have to start in Washington, then it goes to the states? So talking about changing the electoral college and actually doing something are worlds apart.

The first step is to know the program. When it says for Tenderfoot: 4 b. Demonstrate you know how to tie the following knots and tell what their uses are: two half hitches and the taut-line hitch. It means the scout can actually tie the knot and knows how to use it. The same with all the requirements, don't sign it off until the requirement is met as written. It also means that the unit's program requires the scout to use the square knot and two half-hitches so its not forgotten, the same with all the requirements. When you come across a merit badge counselor that is "giving" the badges away, do you stop referring them scouts from your unit or do you let the merit badge dean know about it? The answer to the issues lies with the guy in the mirror

There is this thing that is available in the executive branch, its called the veto. I know Bush knows about it as he has used it a few times. This may have been another good occasion. Then there is the "Line Item Veto" something that comes up every now and then, one party or the other makes a big deal about and everyone argues about it and then is goes away until the next time a flap is made over it, sorta like doing away with the electoral college. In 2001 many democratic congressman and senators said the election result was an outrage and it was time to elect the president by popular vote. So, 6 years later, how is that going? We get Socialism from the goverment because we want it, I mean we must, we keep electing these guys, dont we?

I used to be a Bear And a good ol' Bear too But now I've finished Bearing, I don't know what to do I'm growing old and Feeble and I can bare no more So I'm going to work my ticket if I can Back to Gilwell.. Happy Land.. I'm going to work my ticket if I can...

Use the following link http://www.scouting.org/boyscouts/trainingmodules/board%20of%20review%20training.aspx search for the word "ideally" Its not an opinion, its a quote from the BSA website in the trainig module section. The source was provided and the quote clearly indicated.(This message has been edited by OldGreyeagle)

Well, Why is November the 11th month when it should be the ninth and December the 12th month when it should be the 10th? Because things got a little wacky, the months come from a number of sources, January from Janus, looking both back and forward, remembering the past year and looking forward to the new. So, we have gods, numbers and emporerors. Why does flammable and inflammable mean the same thing? Because active and inactive sure don't...

Hey GWD. I don't know if you knew that the Order of the Arrow was orinally founded on a Scout Reservation in the middle of the Delaware River near Philadelphia. The original Native Americans of this particular area were the Lenai Lenape, thus Vigil names are supposed to be Lenai Lenape in nature. At least thats what I have been told. Then again, I live less than 50 miles from Treasure Island so the COuncil I serve is in the midst of Lenai Lenape land so it is natural all Vigil names are Lenai Lenape. Would the Vigil Honor be less if it were a Lakota name? I doubt it

I am not sure I understand how requiring the book to be present is not adding to the requirements, but that is not the real issue. From the BSA publication Advancement Policies #33088, If the board decides that the Scout is not ready to advance, the candidate should be informed and told what he has not done satisfactorily. Most Scouts accept responsibility for not completing the requirements properly. The members of the board of review should specify what must be done to rework the candidate's weaknesses and schedule another board of review for him. A follow-up letter must be sent to a Scout who is turned down for rank advancement, confirming the agreements reached on the actions necessary for advancement. Should the Scout disagree with the decision, the appeal procedures should be explained to him. So, was a follow-up Board of Review scheduled? Has your son gotten the required letter? Was the appeal process explained to him? Organizational Inertia is tough to change, but for all the gray areas we have in scouting and how varied people interpret rule, guidelines, etc, we should at least follow the policies that are written and verifiable.

Having never been on staff at a Wood Badge, does it cost to be a good ol' staffer too? I know as a Powder Horn Crew Guide, I had to pay to partipate as a staff member. Paying for materials just seems to be natural where I am, but that doesnt mean it is or isn't wrong

I searched the BSA website for Patrol Activities and found the following: Most patrol activities take place within the framework of the troop. However, patrols may also conduct day hikes and service projects independent of the troop, as long as they follow two rules: The Scoutmaster approves the activity. The patrol activity does not interfere with any troop function. http://www.scouting.org/BoyScouts/PatrolLeader.aspx A Boy Scout patrol or Varsity Scout squad may hike or camp with other patrols or squads in the unit or, with the permission of their Scoutmaster and parents or guardians, may hike or camp on their own. http://www.scouting.org/boyscouts/resources/boy%20scout%20outdoor%20program.aspx (Note that for properly trained Boy Scout patrols, it is acceptable to have outdoor patrol activities with no adults present. Such activities do require Scoutmaster approval.) http://www.scouting.org/boyscouts/trainingmodules/planning%20and%20conducting%20a%20safe%20scout%20outing.aspx I did not see any prohibition that the patrol activity could not occur on a Boy Scout Camp. Then again, just because sheath knifes are allowed by the BSA, it doesnt mean that Council Camps can't forbid them. Then again, why would a Council want to forbid something clearly found in the program?

RememberSchiff, do you have a reference on that? I am not saying you are wrong, it just sounds weird

Oh silly me, when I spun a thread off of a thread titled "Is there ANYTHING a scout is ALLOWED to do anymore ?!?!?" I thought the reason for using the term "scout" was obvious, guess I was mistaken. Lets see, there are Cub Scouts and Sea Scouts, we all know there is no such thing as Venture Scouts, but as Marvin Lee Aday would say two out of three ain't bad.

Whilst others banter, how about listing things that your scouts do do and still follow the BSA program: 1. Go on patrol camping trips without adults 2. Play Capture the Flag, at night with or without illumination 3. Go climbing and rappelling what things does your troop do that gets kids excited?

The council I serve is doing two Forums for the Council, a Northern Tier and Southern Tier of three Districts each. I am the commissioner of the Forums and right now the best thing I can say is I am on track for a Training knot in Venturing

This is one that fits particularly well with a handicapped youth that makes Eagle or similar accomplishment Good Timber The tree that never had to fight For sun and sky and air and light, That stood out in the open plain And always got its share of rain, Never became a forest king, But lived and died a scrubby thing. The man who never had to toil Who Never was pitted against a Foil Who never had to win his share Of sun and sky and light and air, Never became a manly man, But lived and died as he began. Good timber does not grow in ease. The stronger the wind, the tougher the trees, The farther the sky, the greater the length, The more the storm, the more the strength, By sun and cold, by rain and snows, In tree or man, good timber grows.

Ed, I would have to see who would be 100% with inappropriate touching, but that is another matter I am sure As a shooting sports director I would have a hard time coaching Shotgun shooting without touching, or rifle or Archery. I remember a very homesick scout a few summercamps ago. He was off by himself sobbing. I asked him if I could sit down next to him and he told me how much he missed his mother. I told him it was ok to miss her and to be sure he told her he loved her when he got back on Saturday. Then I picked a huge daddy long leg spider off his shoulder, showed it to him and said, "But we dont have to tell her about these" . He let out a huge guffaw, hugged me, quite unexpectedly and took off laughing. He had a great week. Never occured to be to me to turn myself in as a G2SS violation

Anyone doing anything that meets with success in the Venturing Forum Arena?

I came from a Troop that does BOR's as necessary, if the youth is ready, its necessary, something about making sure the scout is recognized in a timely fashion, that being said, tradition can be a killer, and organizational inertia is hard to change. What would happen if a scout finished a rank 2-3 weeks after a COH and then finished a secnd rank before the next BOR, would they do two? If the scout is able to complete requirements and advance, this while not being my ideal situation is just a situation. If it delays advancement in the ranks with time requirements, Star, Life and Eagle then it may require another look see

Agree with Kudu about the straps, another thought, if straps sre used, besure the youth knows how to tighten and release the straps and that he knows how to re thread the buckle if he has to, Much easier to learn it at home than on the trail with the troop waiting for you

What puzzles me is both presidential candidates selection of running mates. Obama, the candidate of change, the guy who is comming to DC to straighten the whole mess out because the government is broke and he aims to fix it, selects Joe Biden, a long term senator that seems to fulfill the description of what Obama says is wrong with Washington. Joe Biden is the consummate in the beltwayer Then McCain, who has hammered Obama on inexperience, who questions Obama's qualifications to be be president selects a Governor who has been on the job about as long as Obama has been Senator and whose previous political experience was as Mayor of a small town to be VP? Are Biden and Palin the best each party has to support their man? Begging the question are McCain and Obama the best each party actually has to be president? I thought 2000 was bad when we had an Ivy League tipsy Texas governor who was an running against a VP who while being "from" Tennessee, has virtually spent his entire life in Washington. This is the best we got?

A quick google of the issue brings the following results: http://www.stlbsa.org/Common/Home.htm St louis http://www.sfbac.org/ San Francisco http://www.blackwarriorcouncil.com/ Tuscaloosa http://www.alapaha-bsa.org/ Valdosta http://www.ktc-bsa.org/council.htm Eastern Mass. And a copy of the memo National sent out about uniforms To: Scout Executives From: Stephen Medlicott Marketing & Communications Division Director Subject: Policy on Scout Participation in Political Events With the presidential election coming up in 2008, it is a good time to restate the BSAs long-standing policy regarding the participation of Scouts in political rallies and other political events. Uniformed unit members and leaders may participate in flag ceremonies at political events and may lead the Pledge of Allegiance; however, they should retire after the ceremony and not remain on the speakers platform or in a conspicuous location where television viewers could construe their presence as an endorsement or symbol of support. In addition, photos of candidates or Scouts in uniform or BSA marks and logos are not allowed in political campaign materials of any kind. Volunteers and professionals must be alert to situations that would imply that the BSA favors one candidate over another. Strict observance of our long-standing policy against the active participation of uniformed Scouts and leaders in political events is mandatory. Please notify your chartered organizations and unit leaders of this policy.