OldGreyEagle

its the old "sure my side sucks but not as much as yours" SO, how do we (Society) move away from this reaction, and I know I am guilty of it and will try to stop

A rose by any other name would still smell as sweet Whether it calling it Partial Birth Abortion, or D&X, it is what it is, and I say its wrong no matter what percentage of times its done. So, I kill an elderly gent, and my defense is, hey, he was on his last legs, how do you know he wouldn't have died that night anyway? Yes, I know that not every fertilized egg becomes a human, I am saying that that fertilized mass of cells deserves the right to either develop or not develop unencumbered by saline solution or vacuum cleaner. Yes many women find the decision to abort difficult, because they know what they are doing and know its wrong, but expedient to do so. If you can't rise the child adoption is viable, you don't have to see the baby.

At least she withdrew

I knew that no matter how I asked the question, my syntax and phraseology would get in the way. Yes, I was asking when the "soul", when that mass of cells becomes human. All the genetic material a person has is in the first two cells, the egg and sperm. When they unite, the persons frame, eye color, bloof type are decided (so I have been told). What is contained there is a potential human. To articially end its exitence is to end the existence of a human. At least to my thinking. I don't know the law nor do I play anything on TV. The argument that a woman can make that it's my body and I can do with I want with it is false, is not suicide agains the law? And I mean civil Law. Even then, it suicide was not illegal, is not the terminating of a potential human, someone who could live outside the mother when fully developed ending the life of a human? SOmetimes the argument is made that sucking up a mass of cells is not terminating human life, its just sucking up a mass of cells that might develop into cells, but what about partial birth abortions? Babies who can survive outside of the mother are terminated with parts of the body outside the mother. Babies that could survive out of the mother are terminated because they happen to be in the mother. I guess I dont understand the terminating of another life in any situation. Then again, as I look at that statement I understand I have my exceptions. Enter my abode with intent to maim/kill/harm me and mine and yes, I may kill you. As a soldier in a war, as I face the opposition, yes I will kill that person. So, am I consistent? heck, I run behind my humanity, I dont have to be

Here is a thought, and it's only a thought, but instead of arguing about what to do with the situation once it exists, why not work on not having the situation not occur in the first place? Why not strive to develop a society where personal responsibility is a valued attribute. Where abortion is available but hardly ever talked about since its "need" does not exist because of the behavior of the society? Whether its abstinance, or methodical and consistent use of birth control unwanted pregnancies do not exist. We have reshaped society's thoughts on many issues, drunk driving and the lovable drunk for one (killed Foster Brooks career)littering is another and for that matter, societal acceptance of gays, responsible sexuality could/should be next. Then we don't argue if state money should be spent on abortions, they are not an issue

Beavah, the term is "heroic measures" or at least that was the term I was taught. Heroic measures would be taking a brain dead patient, placing them on a ventilator while hooked up to a dialysis machine and the patient would continue to breathe, create blood cells and the kidneys would filter blood. The patient could be deemed "Alive" except for the lack of brain activity. A 93 year old patient with failing kidneys and with poor liver function may be diagnosed with breast cancer and decide not to have chemotherapy and not have a mastectomy. In that situation, the heroic measure would be treating the breast CA. There is nothing wrong with allow the patient to chart her course of health care. The inevitable reality is that all life ends in death, the issue becomes who gets to administer/regulate that end point

Pack, I may not have the resources to ask this well enough to have you comprehend, but if you don't I know its because I haven't formulated the question well. I can see your argument that unfertilized eggs are alive. They are alive just as my blood cells are alive, brain cells are alive and even the follicles down at the end of my remaining hairs are alive. But none of these cells, even the unfertilized eggs have the ability to develop into a human. But the fertilized egg does have the ability to develop into a human. When sperm and egg unite, there exists the potential of a human, at what point do these mass of cells become worthy of state protection?

So the Nanny issue ran across both parties, its funny that the Clinton Administratin was in this regard more "moral" then how the Obama Administration is shaping up, the Clinton Administration, more moral than another administration, who saw that comming? I didn't

My memories of the "Nanny issues" is that those with Nanny issues either withdrew or had their names withdrawn from consideration of whatever post they were up for, no one paid the back taxes or were allowed to make it "right" so they could be in the position Course I could have it wrong,

Sorry, somehow I missed you are a physician, which explains a lot. Having physicians run healthcare is truly letting the inmates run the asylum (no specific offense intended, just in a general sense)

So Vol_scouter, when you say withhold more invasive and agressive treatment, you mean you want to determine who lives and dies, if not you, someone else, the state perhaps? I really don't think so, but that could be interpretted as the direction your thought could lead us. Wonder why that Catholic Hospital is out of business? All that free care and care to the indigent does eventually cost something. It's funny how Medicare and Medicaid and Insurance Companies can tell Hospitals what to accpet as payment for services, but those darn supply companies and employees need real money

Nancy Pelosis only wants to serve mankind, wasn't that a Twilight Zone episode, the book to serve mankind was actually a cookbook? Anyway, humor aside, how ols is Nancy anyway? She may not have to worry about Medicare, but her family and friends will

GWD, health care is still based in the US, hospitals that is, unless you discount the number of hospitals that is letting tele-medicine networks have Radiologists in India and environs read the CT and Sonograms that occur after hours along with other films. The good news, they still need humans in the US to move the patients around, so far

A long time ago, well, the late 60's it was. A gentleman in England came up with a way to make x-ray pictures which had been digitized into a picture that would show cross-sectional anatomy. He worked at EMI (Electrical Musical Instruments, they recorded the Beatles before Apple)which unerstood computers and images. Hounsfield won the Nobel Prize in Medicine in 1979 for his invention, a Computerized Axial Tomographic Scanner (CAT Scanner) Very few English medical eqipment companies make CT scanners, none have many innovations, there is no market for them. There was an imaging technology that was around for a very long time, Nuclear Magnetic Resonance (NMR) it was heavily studied at the University of Aberdeen in Scotland. The name seemed to put many people off and so the technology was retitled Magnetic Resonance Imaging (MRI), I guess taking nuclear out meant it was less scary, even though the resonating of the nucleus of the atoms in the foundation of the images produced. Again, not a whole bunch of innovation in Scotland relating to the use and manufacure of MRI equipment. That comes in the US where the companies might expect to sell a few. With socialized medicine, innovaton of equipment and techniques slow down

throw some sparks on some steel wool and watch the steel burn, always a true thrill. and oh yeah, it stinks, do this out side, far far outside, but its so kewl!!!!

and here http://www.scouting.org.za/resources/pioneering/HourglassTower.pdf

First, we need to look at what we call health Care. For most people its the family physician, but its so much more. Does health care include the motorized wheelchairs that are advertised on TV as being basically "FREE". The compnay works with Medicare and your insurance and if the compnay says you get one, you get one with no cost to you. Who pays for that? (This is an example, I don't want to take anybody's wheel chair from them" Will the same policy cover physicians and hopsitals? Hospitals already due to EMTALA legislation cannot refuse treatment to anyone who presents, a physician can elect who he/she will treat. The Government tells the physician how much money they will get when treating a Medicare or Medicaid patient, so , how do we keep getting physicians if we cap the earnings potential? What if we socialize Medicine, or rather further socialize Medicine to its final point? Should there be rates for better risks? Smokers? Sorry, no care or at a premium, then if you are 10% overweight, you pay 10% more in premiums, and so on. If genetic testing is used and if you are predisposed to breast cancer, why not prophylacticly remove them. In fact, if you don't and you get breast cancer, why should it be covered, you had your chance. Prenatal care is a big issue, so many congenital problems occur because the mother smokes, does drugs, doesnt eat correctly, dosen't excercise, do we have the pre-natal police? Testing your blood randomly to be sure the mother is behaving properly? Or at least within "Limits"? And what is the recourse? Pre-natal holding cells? A healthy baby is the the right of the state? If you are diabetic or prone to diabetes, are you taxed more if you are above your target weight? Do you "have" to participate in state run excercise programs? Should all fertilized eggs be collected and cared for with modifications to them so they are predisposed to be happy in needed jobs? Embryos set in spinning centrifuges so they will only be happy when spinning? Great trainning for Space Station mechanics or Carnival ride operators. A Brave New World indeed. How do we get to socialized medicine? Wipe out private insurance? How many people is that? How much money does the country have invested in Insurance stock? What happens to the employees? Do we reduce the R&D in equipment, in surgical techniques? "Fasten your seatbelts, it's going to be a bumpy ride"(This message has been edited by OldGreyEagle)

define "bad smell" WHen I smell a home made fire starter, if I can smell one at all, I smell the planning, the excitement, the energy, the overall good feeling of a boy doing something on his own, or with a parent. I never smell anything bad

Colbert? The guy on Comedy Central? Isn't he a hoot? Parodying talk show hosts? He crackse me up

?

Who was it that said: "I am sick and tired of people who say that if you debate and you disagree with this administration you're not patriotic. We should stand up and say, 'We are Americans and we have a right to debate and disagree with any administration!'" Now, that does not mean it's fair to complain that the president's tie is not red, white, and blue enough or that his American Flag lapel pin should be larger, or smaller. It means his policies and decisions about the government are up for discussion. Can we wait for him to do something before we strike?

Hey GWD, if you run for President, the Feds won't have to run down anything. Your complete dossier including birth parents and adoptive parents names and foibles and peccadilloes and yours would be known, published, broadcasted and blogged before you could tie a Bowline on a Bight (I would say french bowline, but then someone would say I should have said Freedom bowline and who wants that?)

I think Boy Scouts is the broadest youth program teaching the values that have been enumerated. Yes, a band may provide training in integrity, discipline, and teamwork. A Sports team may endow the youth in a background of physical activity. But the point may be moot if I am devoid of musical or athletic talent. In Boy Scouts a boy may develop talents as he matures, talents not present upon joining. The BSA joining requirements are mighty broad, not nearly as demanding as being a starter on a traveling Soccer Club Team or Diving Club

gern, thats an ancient Chineese curse, ain't it?

Gern, Gern, Gern, Gern, and it was going along so well, well I thought it was. Gay, Avowed or otherwise, does not equal Pedophilic anymoer than being Heterosexaul equals Pedophilic. For every male authority figure (Coach, Teacher, etc) in the paper molesting boys, there is a comparative story about a male molesting a girl.