83Eagle

The boys know who wins and loses even if it's noncompetitive.....

To answer the specific question in the OP, I believe the answer is yes. The Girl Scouting program emphasizes leadership through service much more than the Boy Scouts and does so at an earlier age. My daughter, age 11, has been leading younger Brownie/Daisy troops for two years. Each of her badges also requires completing volunteer service related to the topic. That's my impression anyway as it relates to the specific issue of leadership. Now if you'll ask me which does a better job of teaching youth other skills I might have a different answer. Oh, to the point brought up about girls being bored in the program...it all depends on the program. I see huge differences in the level of activity between different service units and different troops. Typical for Boy Scouts/Cub Scouts as well.

What do yeh mean by that? Where do yeh think we're suddenly not following da constitution? Appointing Czars with massive power and with no consent from Congress? That's in Article...??? Mandating people to buy health insurance? Can't find that in the constitution anywhere. Obviously the first one is not unique to B.O. Could probably come up with some more with some thinkin'. Just two that come to mind.

I had no idea what that circle was all about. I assumed it was some sort of a "pledge." Hey Scoutfish, you have parents like that in your Pack too? I thought it was just us. I find it works well to have the "either/or" activities. "Go to this part of the room if you want to help with ABC, or stay in your seat if you want to help with XYZ." Etc. When we do signups for events and camp, adults have to select among the options of "I will help with ABC," "I will help with XYZ," or "I have no preference and you can assign me to wherever I am needed most." At least it gets the idea across. Hey, how many of you DLs/CMs/SMs ever run across parents who assume you are getting PAID for what you do? I almost snorted my hot cocoa when I heard that one...

Having had a couple of meetings in the same room with another den, I will recommend you do whatever you can to avoid that scenario. Also from my experience, the cafeteria is not the greatest place to meet and get good discipline. After being at school all day, the boys really want to be someplace else. Additionally, they are used to being noisy and on their "home turf" in the cafeteria. Going someplace different just made for a better meeting in my experience as DL. A church is a great option. Even though our CO is the American Legion, we were able to meet in the social hall of one of our parent's church, which was a much better location. (And we picked up two new members because the church puts our meeting in the bulletin!) If you absolutely have to meet in the cafeteria one thing you can do is to set up name tents for who should sit where. After a few exasperating meetings in the cafeteria where the boys goofed around and the parents chit-chatted in the back, and with all the usual strategies (boys setting rules, consequences, etc) ineffective, this proved to be a wonderfully effective strategy. By now, you know what boys gravitate toward each other and goof off the most. So make name plates/tents that put boys together who don't typically socialize with each other. Then, leave empty seats between groups of name tents with the idea that parents come up and sit by the boys. Yes, I know that the boys are supposed to be learning to do things on their own, but you're trying to fix a problem. So if the parents are there, they may as well be useful in helping control things. And it also solves the parent chit-chat problem by breaking up the groups of parents too.(This message has been edited by 83eagle)

Anyone who claims the anger wasn't there before Obama was elected is conveniently ignoring the fact that W left office with an abysmal 22 percent approval rating. Are there racists IN the Tea Party? Undoubtedly, just as there are in the Republican Party, Liberterian Party, Socialist Party, even the Democrat party (Robert "KKK" Byrd, uttering the "N word" well into the 21st century, anyone?) Not that Wikipedia is the source of all truth, but it's worth at least looking at a summary of where the modern Tea Party movement started, and what it stands for, before using such a broad brush with which to paint. To answer the OP question, "Tea Party Just Racist?", the answer is obviously, and factually, no. Unless of course your theory is that one (or two or three or three thousand or whatever) bad apples spoil the whole bunch, in which case every political party is racist.

Yup, I just checked the insignia guide so I'm confident I have the patch in the right spot, touching the round position patch rather than on the sleeve cuff. Makes me want to get out my old pre-1980 Olive green uniform which, as you can probably tell by my ID, I was wearing when I began as a Boy Scout...though I'm guessing it might be a tight squeeze....

This whole situation drives me batty. I went to training (Cub Scout) and they passed out two different color strips. Started with the tan/green and when they ran out switched to tan/red. Then I was later told I put my patch in the wrong spot (I have it ABOVE the seam on a short-sleeve tan shirt, rather than on the cuff below the seam. Jeesh!!!) Centennial Uniforms? I have no idea what those are. As a CM I tell my new DLs to get the "tan uniform shirts." So, the local scout shop have a big sale on womens' uniforms at the moment. $5 a piece. I told all my female DLs about it. Are they "centennial uniforms?" Who knows? Who cares? I'm just happy to get the DLs and committee members in uniform. Are there really "uniform Nazis" out there who badger people about this? Yes, the uniform is important...I've said as much in these forums. But there seems to be a great deal of confusion and misinformation about this particular item!

Face it, had McCain won, the TeaParty would not exist. You're probably right because, for one thing, there would be no ObamaCare or, for that matter, the number of other government intrusions into and downright takeovers of the private sector. Face it, people see the Tea Party (of which I am not a member) the way they want to see it. People who want to see racism there will find it while ignoring the own racism of other political movements, whether that racism is manifested in the long-term results of detrimental public policy or is overtly manifested in actions such as a party's opposition to the Civil Rights movement. What I find interesting is that what the Tea Party is angry about are policies and actions. What Tea Party detractors are angry about are Tea Party members themselves and their attacks are personal--whether it's individual name-calling or casting the whole movement as "racist." It really just exposes a predisposition and a shallowness of thinking. And, as such, it's hardly worth even debating it because those minds will never be changed no matter how many facts are presented.(This message has been edited by 83eagle)

Thanks for the fast reply; PM sent.

Basically an iron we can heat in the fire with the name of the pack, year, and camp. Size...???

We are looking for a branding iron to make souvenir wood disks at camp. Lots of sources online but I am looking for other and cheaper options...any ideas are appreciated.

We should be trying to find ways to get and keep boys interested in the program. Yeah, the video game badge doesn't "put the 'outing' in Scouting" but it's part of the official program, and I think your Pack leadership needs to reconcile itself to that fact.

I don't think I have seen the "C" that might be new since my day. I remember the 3 ribbon tassel on the sleeve that the pins went on, and I know they are still around since they were being displayed at the CS specifics course. There are two different items here. There are the Webelos "activity badges" that are actually pins, and then there are Cub Scout academic and sports pins that are open to all ranks. Webelos activity badges are all different shapes and are official uniform items and go on the three-ribbon shoulder tassel. The academic and sports pins are all little triangles and are non-uniform items. They are designed to go on the Cub Scout Academics and Sports Letter, which is an embroidered "C" patch. I think the idea is that it's supposed to look like a school letter jacket. They can go on the red patch vest all by themselves but they are pretty small. I prefer to put them on the "C" and sew the backs on. The academic and sports pins aren't very popular in our pack because of the work they require and the fact that they aren't to be worn on the uniform. Because they require multi-hour activity they aren't as well suited for pack or den events like the belt loops are. Sorry if I'm telling you something you already know. (This message has been edited by 83eagle)

To be honest I can see the point. Both the BSA and GSUSA do a service project on Memorial Day weekend, placing flags out and taking them in. If you look at the picture posted in the paper, it looks like a BSA service project, with sisters helping out. That's basically my point Eagle92, and why I think that it's "a shame" (literally meaning, "it's unfortunate") that the GSA doesn't have more of a uniform standard. Am I "ashamed" that my daughter is a Girl Scout and involved in community service? That would be absurd, and that's never what I said. The uniform does not define a Scout, but it does clearly identify a Scout, the same way that a uniform defines my son's little league baseball team, etc. That alone is the reason why I do not understand the GSA's failure to adopt a uniform standard for both girls and leaders as the BSA has done. It's a puzzling situation, but certainly not shameful.

Look at the tone of your post GlenBastern. Just more of the same confrontational and condescending online crap you see in so many forums where people get to hide behind anonymity. If you're not an online bully you do a good imitation of one. Well, I wasn't going to argue this, but the point of my post was that the uniform is a point of identity to both the GS group itself, and to the group within the community. And when the group is seen by the community as doing something good, that's a positive for the group. Yes, the girls should--and do--want to do service for its own reward. But it is also good to get the group some PR in the community and even drive membership as a result. Perhaps what you cynically call being "marketed?" You know, I really was hoping to find something different in this forum considering that it is a Scouting forum. That is, the whole "A scout is...friendly, courteous, kind...." thing? Instead, my early indication is that this is just more of the "old guard" garbage where the people who've been around for years and know all the inside baseball just wait at their keyboard to pounce on newbies with snide comments, criticisms, and plenty of ALL CAPS comments just so we pay attention. You all might just wanna think about how your comments come across to those who haven't managed to average several posts here a day over the past 5 or 10 years.

It's a shame that some people lurk to find fault with every post and live to start arguments. I won't be sucked in. It's my opinion, you're welcome to yours.

The "problem" with the GS youth uniform is that it is not standard. You can wear a sash or a vest, for your badges. Each troop decides, and a lot of time they don't wear them. What goes underneath the sash or vest is up to the girl. It's supposed to be white shirt, tan pants like the leaders but... I don't understand why the GS haven't standardized on a uniform not just for identification, but for $. I'm guessing the BSA has gotta make something on the shirts, pants, socks, hats, neckers, and bevy of patches that go on youth and adult uniforms. Maybe I'm wrong... It's a shame because in our community the Girl Scouts are very active in community service--much more than the Boy Scouts--but you wouldn't know it because they just look like a group of girls when they're out working.

People will see what they want to see in this book. Fans and detractors of GWB interpret things through their particular prism of viewpoint.

Yeh "knew where yeh stood," and clothing was one aspect of how you distinguished yourself from others. The uniform is distinquishing and, at a fundamental level, it's identifying. This is a strength of the BSA program. My wife has been a Girl Scout leader for many years. The Girl Scouts do not have a "uniform" to speak of for leaders. They have a dress code--tan pants, white shirt--and a few "official" pieces of clothing you can buy (like a blue cardigan). But when I walk into a Girl Scout meeting, I have no idea who the leaders are. Their clothing does not match the girls' uniforms and they don't wear a patch to speak of. When you come to a Den, Pack, or Troop meeting, you can (or should be able to) identify who the leaders are. It lends a sense of dignity and importance. That's NOT to say that the Girl Scouts are not dignified or important, just that the Boy Scout leader uniform enhances that. The only drawback to the uniform that I see is that by clearly identifying the people "in charge," it can be more difficult to get a parent to step up to help with something. I think they can feel a little intimidated, like they're not supposed to be in the front of the room with all these decked-out adults and boys. But, that's a surmountable issue with a little practice...and it also means you can use the uniform as an incentive for volunteers. "Would you like to be an ACM? You get to wear the uniform..." :-)(This message has been edited by 83eagle)

Well, Beavah, all I know is I read your OP and just fired off a little, deliberately non-partisan, quip. Next thing I know I'm being treated to a five-paragraph dissertation (edited post-submission, nonetheless) that has me feeling like I'm in front of the class with my hand out waiting to be whacked by the ruler held in the stern hand of Sister Mary. Well, I'm not gonna get into that argument because, on one hand, I'm not gonna concede to the premise that is oh-so-casually tossed in. And on the other hand, I can see this troll coming from a mile away. In the words of the W the Elder as channeled by Dana Carvey: "Not...gonna...do it!" And on the other other hand, it's a nice day, I have a den meeting to plan, and my son just got off the bus. I gots lots better things to do with my time!

Wow, I wander away from this forum for a few hours and a whole page of stuff is posted out here, yet still nothing intelligent has been said. Of course, that's just my opinion, and I'm just a (relatively) new poster who went to a state school in flyover country, so what would I know?

After 2 days of trying, it magically works today. Must have been a system problem (?). Or gremlins.

packsaddle, in my experience I have found that the more intelligent a person tries to make him or herself sound, the less true intelligence said person actually has. Your attempt at erudition is...enlightening, in many ways.

"Honest politician" is an oxymoron regardless of party. It's no wonder we're all so cynical these days. Oh BTW, loser pays is a great idea. Good luck ever getting it though.