83Eagle

Our pack flag had about 40 hanging on it to the point where it looked like a shaggy mess when presented. Someone asked what all ther ribbons were so I took the time to take them all off and display them. It was so much easier to appreciate them that way and the flag looks much better plain in my opinion. No one has complained either way.

While the cubmaster should work to help dens stay on track, it seems here that the den is well aware of their progress. So at the blue and gold you recognize them for the progress made and if they have nothing to award based on that progress there is no ceremony. If you have other ranks ready to earn their rank badges based on the calendar of the current delivery method, focus your ceremony energies on them. The W2s are allowed to stay in the pack as mentioned, and you can then shift your focus into giving them some token at the last pack meeting, be it a commemorative coin, etc. Regarding your last question, I don't see how the parting is ending poorly since the previous cubmaster and den don't seem to be asking for anything except "setting up the home troop," but any crossover for that can be handled at that last meeting if and only if some boys actually cross over.

Yes, abuelita is the best. End of discussion, next topic please.

Well, this thread has taken a diversion but it's been interesting. What I will say regarding the sports comparisions is...AND HOW!!!! You tell me the last little league/soccer/Pop Warner team that changed their schedule one minute to meet the needs of a boy. "Why do we do fundraising in fall? Every other organization does?" So, tell the other organization to change. "Why do we have XYZ event on the date of ABC organization's event?" So, tell ABC organization to change. Yah?

Nice!

I appreciate all the input.

The way I deal with them as CM, I actually learned here. When they complain I hand them the offical BSA complaint form, 524-501A, and ask for a $15 processing fee to file it.

>>Before, if I gave a kid $10 donation instead of buying popcorn, the whole $10 went to the pack. Now, by buying popcorn for the troops, the $10 is split between the council and the vendor. True, but only if it's a zero sum game. To bring in a girl scout cookie example, we never (rarely) got donations. When we started buying for the troops we got a ton of sales, and we found someone to donate the shipping. (Now I think ??? it's worked out thru the military per se.) So a portion of something is much better than nothing. But...I cannot speak for popcorn, and if your donations have now turned into military buys--yes, everyone else is getting their take of what had been all yours.

Be glad of the BSA's fundraising approach vs GSUSA. With Girl Scouts, you must sell cookies first in order to engage in any other type of fundraiser later. I think the popcorn is tremendously overpriced and our pack doesn't sell it, choosing instead for a low-price-point ($3), high volume fundraiser. Occasionally I get a parent who complains why we don't sell popcorn, at which point I ask them if they want to be the popcorn kernel and run the fundraiser. So needless to say, we still are not selling popcorn!

Interesting discussion. I guess I never realized the scout promised to do his duty to gods. Always thought it was just one God.

5 gallon

I think we all know the answer to this one! I asked da wife who is also big into girl scouts and the PTO. She just rolled her eyes. Scouts cause behavior issues you can deal with. Parents cause trouble that lasts. And yes, it's the parents who don't volunteer that cause the most trouble. But in their eyes I'm the one causing trouble by enforcing rules and standards and generally not running things "their way," which of course we don't know what way that is, because they don't get involved to let us know. All they know is that after something is done, it's not the way it should have been done. But, by now they know that if they don't contribute, I don't listen to their complaints. Which means they just complain behind my back. C'est la vie!

Scout fish, how do you accommodate for the fact that your webelos are gone in the spring when it comes to the fundraiser? Aside from the fact that we wouldn't have the funds to carry us through to spring, this seems to be the biggest inhibitor to a spring sale.

As a follow up to this (I'm the OP, couldn't figure out how to change my handle so just created a new account.) We did name an advancement chair and it has been a godsend, particularly as B&G approaches. We use the various trax software at some of the Den levels and the advancement chair is working on a record keeping system that can be passed down to the next person to take that role. Why having a record is important became evident lately. Got a request from the WDL for a bunch of Webelos pins that kids "didn't get." Well, I knew that some of these were awarded from my foggy memory so I asked the WDL to double check so we didn't buy duplicate pins. But, the WDL didn't have records (that's a story unto itself) and neither did the previous CM, and there was no advancement chair before. After some back and forth it turns out that kids either lost pins, forgot to put them on the colors, stuck in the drawer, who knows what. So, I really see the benefit of encouraging/providing some system for the DLs, trax of otherwise, and keeping a pack-level system in the event the DLs end up "losing" their data.

From reading the above, you have a graduation camp out where parents who arent involved complain about the decisions that are made, where you cant get any volunteer help, but where people complain even worse when you try to cancel it because there are no volunteers to run it. You have a succession plan but no ACMs currently and no successor apparent CM." You are stuck doing career arrows, pinewood derby car preparation, a PWD workshop, etc., apparently at the direction of the committee but with no assistance from the committee. The minister of the COR is happy and the meetings are "rocking," but you have a drop-and-run culture and infighting among parents about advancement. Yet despite this the program seems to be successful and growing despite this: You are retaining 90 percent of your cubs, doubling the size of your troop, and youve gone from 10 scouts to 60 scouts...yet your district chastises you when enrollment drops. It's a puzzling picture. You obviously have a ton of ambition and are actively working toward building a culture of parental involvement and volunteerism. Yet your committee does not seem to support you or understand its role and responsibilies. Did this committee exist before you took over? It appears to be made up of parents in the program (from your comments about their boys wanting their arrows). Why are they not supporting you on planning issues and fighting you on program issues?

When mom is 2 hours late you call the sheriff and say you are concerned something has happened. Regarding FOS, the FOS coordinator is explicitly a committee position. Tell your DE you will forward all FOS stuff to your committee, and that he should deal with them with any concerns. Then tell your committee you are not handling it because it is not your responsibility. You are already not a voting member and are getting dumped on by parents, your committee, and your district. Time to man up or get out. Sorry to be so negative/direct but that's the way I see it,

You made a commitment to be a CM, not to be a slave. The answer is to say "I'm not doing XYZ activity" or at least not if the volunteer sheet doesnt get filled up. When 20 kids and no adults show up to build cars, you don't build cars you call the parents for pickup. What you are doing is not fair to yourself, the boys, or the program. I'm sorry, I'm trying to make a point to not get involved in these types of discussions but this one really struck a nerve. These parents need a good dose of vitamin N.

I like the license idea but the logistics sound challenging. I'm going to stick with plan a which is to take portrait shots of the boys and their cars when they arrive, the print them and have special PWD frames that they can color when their heat is not running. I'm going to do licenses ahead of time with boys names individually printed though, so when they check in their car they get their license. That was a big hit at the space derby so I'm going to ramp it up and get laminator out...I think. Lots of time for fine tuning.

No one can take advantage of you without your permission.

How do you do your drivers' licenses?

That's ok, neither do half the parents! They just show up and there's the derby, right?

When I volunteered to be Tiger Den leader, our CM told me "just follow the book and you'll be fine." Meaning, the Tiger Cub badge book. Not the greatest guidance! Anyhoo, fast forward several years and I'd like to come up with a document to give to new leaders, especially Tigers, who have that panicked look as they hand in their Volunteer Adult Application. On one hand, the BSA's "So You're a New Tiger Den Leader" four-page document is a little too generic. On the other hand, the phonebook-sized Leader Handbook phonebook and the huge tab full of meeting plans can be a little intimidating. Important to have, hard to quickly digest. So I was thinking of compiling or writing some Useful But Not Overwhelming resource but I also don't want to reinvent the wheel and I'm sure there's some great stuff out there. Anything that you use out there that has proven very helpful?

Two things. 1. After researching into methods and links mentioned above, I came across a macro-enabled spreadsheet to do a generator of the young & pope/PPN that I liked better than the ones mentioned. It's very intuitive and it lets you set up races based on # of cars, tracks, and heats easily. This will accomplish what we want to do, which is to allow each car to race an equal number of times so it is more interesting, and then to base the winner off # of wins rather than through elimination. I think it will also eliminate a bit of the excitement that comes with the final race between the first and second place cars in the elimination method, so that's the only downside I see. I tried this spreadsheet on a 10-car heat running 4 times with the practice scenario that the lower numbered car would always be faster (i.e., beat out a higher numbered car). This generator always put the fastest car in the #1 position or tied for #1. In the second and third place ranking it occasionally moved up the #4 car and dropped down the #3 car. But this could happen in double elimination as well. All in all, I think this is a good method and since it is "computer scored" it will look better to the crowd than the usual fiddling we did with tick mark sheets for our double elimination. The file is at: http://members.cox.net/pinehead/software.html http://members.cox.net/pinehead/ppnxls.zip. 2. I would like to create some tall signs, like you see in convention halls, to clearly deliniate areas of the race--check in, garage, lube station, etc. Something 6 feet tall that's easy to see. Any ideas out there? I'm thinking a tall pole or even closet rod zip tied to a table leg with a sign tacked to the top might work...

Wow, this makes more sense, but it's the first I've heard of it. Did I miss something somewhere? We need to collect these soon for a winter camp and it would be good to know.

Well actually, the physics of the pinewood derby tells you that a longer wheelbase leads to a faster car, so I don't know why they're moving them closer together. More likely their speed advantage is coming from something else illegal they are doing, like lathing the wheels down to a paper-thin level. The bottom line from a "rules" standpoint is that the little sheet that comes in the box doesn't prohibit moving the wheels, but it does explicitly give directions for how to dress and use the existing axle slots so I think it's pretty clear.