83Eagle

Just to try to summarize all the various posts into one answer here... 1. You do not have to earn the "whittlin chip" at a district/pack/etc. event. In fact, you don't even have to earn it as a den activity. A boy can do it on his own as a badge actitivity or Bear elective. 2. Boys "cross over" at the end of the school year. So your Bears become Webelos as soon as school's out, whether or not they have earned the Bear badge. 3. If boys have completed all 12 Bear badge achievements, they can work on electives until the end of the school year.

"Redneck" is definitely a slur in this context, when included with the words shown above. And it is definitely an ethnic slur. You all have a picture of said redneck in your mind right now, don't you? Just like "tea bagger," redneck is a cheap and easy slur to toss about because it does not target a protected minority,

That is an unworkably narrow interpretation. You did have two deep leadership; i.e., two adults there for the event. One adult was just temporarily absent. What happened if the adult left the room for 1 second then popped back in? Do you need to find a replacement leader for that 1 second? Now that's a ridiculous scenario but you see where I'm going with this. It would be different if the ADL had to leave the activity completely, but as long as he/she is still part of the activity, you have fulfilled the requirement. I'm not sure what the whole situation/relationship is with your CO, as it seems like he must be pretty involved to be there at a meeting and know enough about YPT to be dangerous, but it might be worth revisiting the issue, as it's guaranteed to happen again in the future.

@beavah: So as long as we continue to protect a virtual state monopoly on education, then educational professionals don't have the ability to do what all other professionals are able to do. So if yeh really don't like da teachers' unions, the way to address that is not to try to run 'em out on a rail, it's to give educators back their profession. Let 'em set up their own schools to compete with each other for both kids and for teachers. Stop regulating and testing 'em to death. Abolish da public school monopoly. That would be vouchers and charter schools...two things vehemently opposed by any union worth its weight in protectionism... Bust 'em!

Wow, wander away from this thread for a few weeks and...everything is still the same! Public sector unions are a conflict of interest, plain and simple. Unions negotiate their contracts with the people they help put in office. Public sector workers, particularly teachers, want it both ways. They want the autonomy and responsibility that goes with a professional position, yet they want the collective bargaining that goes with being a factory worker. Not that there's anything wrong with the latter, but it is different from a professional position. If you want to be a professional, be willing to stand or fall on your own merits, and be rewarded for the same, not based on your length of service. So now I can hear the next argument. "Well, without collective bargaining an individual won't be able to negotiate with the board/district/local government/etc." And...so what? Welcome to the real world! Out here a professional takes a job and negotiates the best he or she can when starting. But typically after that, you take what they give you! (Unless you can apply leverage by threatening to quit or getting a better offer elsewhere.) Also I hear, "I'm going to get canned because an administrator doesn't like me." And...so? It's not fair, yes. Life isn't fair, get used to it. People get fired for stupid reasons all the time. Dust yourself off, get up, start over. Bust 'em!

Well, what I can tell you is the last time we had planned a spring camp in MAY we had to drop the overnight part and go with a day camp because it got down into the low 20s. Too cold for cubs. (and no, I don't want any argument on that! That is too cold for cubs and tent camping!) Anyhoo, I recommend going to a council site for two reasons. One, no approval needed. Two, anybody doesn't like the camp, amenities, etc., you can fall back on the fact that it is an official district camp to diffuse their complaints, or at least redirect them from toward you.

My pack just got back from from Spring Family Camping 2 hours ago. Holy cow, we still have snow on the ground with 6 inches forecast!

I meant there's a joker in every crowd...but that works too :-)

There's one in every crowd...

The original post said that the parents were being disruptive. If that is the case then the language issue is irrelevant. The program is for the boys, not to be a parent coffee klatch. So you have every right to tell them to be quiet or, better yet, to come help with something so they are not idle and prone to chatter. However, if all the adults are sitting around chatting after the meeting or whatnot and they are chatting in Polish, I don't see what the problem is. They are talking between themselves so while it might bug the other parents that they can't eavesdrop, there's nothing wrong with it. Unfortunately if the parents were approached from the basis that it is the language, and not the behavior, that is the problem, you are going to have a very difficult time changing the focus of future discussions. You are going to have to be very clear that language is not the issue. Normally I would say this is a problem for the DL to handle but he has already asked you to intervene. It just seems odd though, and not the type of problem that would be elevated to the Pack level.That alone probably served to annoy the Polish parents as well.

Yeah sherminator, hard to believe, eh? I like looking at the little pencil drawing of Bill Hillcourt on this forum. He always looks deep in thought. Sometimes introspection is a good thing. Admittedly hard to do though.

I have a relative who simply cannot hold a job because everybody he works with are always complete jerks. Co-workers stink, boss is a tyrant, etc etc. This guy simply has the worst possible luck. I mean, dozens and dozens of employers, and he always manages to pick the worst one, filled with the worst possible people. Never occurs to him to ask, "Hmmmm...wonder if it might be me?" Some lessons can be taken from that, to here...

Put the active stuff last. This might seem counterintuitive. I always thought if we'd start with something active, it would burn their energy off. Instead it just wound them up. Instead, have coloring pages there for them. For some reason I never have bad luck with coloring pages. They dial in. Then move to your den/badge activity, and end with an active game. Then have snacks. It's "short attention span" theater--no more than 10 minutes per activity. 30-40 minutes of activity, 10 minutes of snack, cleanup, you're done.

Well, our Pinewood was on Sunday. Got a note from one of the parents in our Pack, whose son took 3rd place in his Den. I really thought this boy was disappointed about his finish...but...well, I'll let the note speak for itself: Today he had to bring in something 'special'. Something that defines his character and his likes and/or dislikes. Because I was gone last night he took it upon himself to pack his derby car in the 'garage' along w/ his 3rd place trophy. He also wrote a little note. The note said: (Bare w/ me, this is exactly how he wrote it, spelling and all). Why is this car special? I'll tell you why. This car is special to me because it makes me think of boy scouts. Boy scouts is so much fun. I get to spend a lot of time doing fun stuff with my friends and family. How many of you have gone camping with your friends in the winter? How about sledding? How many of you get to make a lot of stuff with your friends? I do. Mr. [name] always has really fun things for us to do. I even got to be in a skit this year. We made my grandma and grandpa laugh at the banquet. Me and my dad made this car all by ourselvs. We spend lots of nights cutting, sawing, and sanding. I even got to learn to use my dads dremel. I didn't do a very good job at first but after breaking a axel I decidid to be more carefull and pay attention. I even talked my dad into putting screws in the back end for talelights. The night before our derby I got relly excited. I didn't sleep much. My car took third place in our den but to me it was the best car ever. (This message has been edited by 83eagle)

Here's the plan I'm going to propose. Have all the boys start on one side and pick who they want to race against. Doesnt have to be someone from their den. They race to the other side and get a ticket if they win. They then choose someone different to race against and go back the other direction. After a certain number of races (when everyone gets bored, or about 30 minutes), we split up into dens and figure out who has the most wins and they get a blue ribbon, second gets red, third gets white. Everyone then gets a patch. If we have a tie we have a race-off. Hopefully we dont have a case where everyone has the same # of winsbut it could happen. Could happen in any format for that matter. Regarding the Pack, it doesnt seem right to have 4th graders racing against 1st graders. So I'm going to recommend we use the pack-level trophies for a best of show voting. Any comments?

Already got the t-shirt on...doesn't help! Seriously it's gotta be the shirt. I can wear a sweatshirt and I don't sweat like this. I'm just wondering if switching to the Nylon would help, but I wanted to float it to the forums before spending the $ and moving a bunch of patches.

Just an update on this. After checking in, boys were given a driver's license, patch, and car-themed craft project. They then went to the "Pinewood Portrait Studio" where they got a picture taken of themselves with their car. (Siblings got pictures and crafts too). They used their license to present to the "garage" to check in their car. We got several boy scouts back to help run the race which worked great. I did not end up printing any big traffic signs, instead using the natural layout of the space to send people around in a logical progression. It worked very well. After all the cars were checked in, boys were given a ballot and called down to the garage to vote for their two favorite cars. (Voting for 2 was meant to avoid ties, or having each boy simply vote for his own car.) Votes were tallied and best of show ribbons were awarded. As it turned out, all the boys stayed in the arena to watch the races. The fact that we used the PPN system this year helped things run much smoother than our "tick mark" system from years before. Also, the PPN system accomplished its goal of having the boys "in it" until the end. For instance, a boy could lose his first two races, then win his next four, whereas in previous years he would have been done racing. Of course, some cars lost every race, but that happens. The best part: the grand champion car was a Scout who had made his car at a den derby-building day, so it was definitely not "dad made." It was made in 30 minutes and never lost a race!!!

Just an update on this. For smaller dens (7 or less) we ran each car against every other car. For really small dens (3 or 4) we ran each car against every other car and switched lanes. (2 lane track). For larger dens (10 and up) we ran each car 6 times using the partial perfect generator. A 10-car den (30 races) took about 15 minutes. The advantage to using the charts was that we could call "on deck" cars which kept things moving much faster. For the pack finals we ran a "perfect" race with each car racing every other car, alternating tracks.

I'm looking for a recommendation on running the raingutter. After running a "just for fun" regatta the past few years with dwindling participation, everyone wanted to try a competitive regatta this year to shake things up. So that decision is already made. The parameters we have to run under is that we are awarding 1st-3rd place ribbons for each den and then trophies for Pack winners. Those are already purchased. I'm looking for something that's not as formal as the PWD. Ideally we'd like to find a way for the kids to just race and race until they fell over and then find a way to declare a winner. I've read about the "ticket" system in some of the PWD threads, so that might work, but I'm not sure how to apply it to the den/pack structure we've already decided on.

Ok, so I have the RL uniform shirt bought a few years ago, and it is the 65 poly/35 cotton shirt. For whatever reason, I sweat like a pig in this shirt. Makes it kind of tough to do signs up without looking like I have a serious case of flop sweat. Was thinking of switching shirts...but maybe it's just me. Any recommendations?

Our Pack pays for belt loops that are earned in Pack or Den organized activities. We do not do pins as organized activities because of the length of time they are designed to take. Scouts can work on whatever they want of course, but parents have to pay for any loops or pins that they do on their own. Parents are "Akela" and you cannot audit the earning of loops by requiring proof of achievement. We will present all belt loops (including on your own ones) at Pack meetings. This has not been a problem of quantity because we don't promote the program as an "individual" program. For our Pack, I believe one of the reasons that belt loops are not a big deal is that we really emphasize the "Red Vest" and we give patches for pretty much everything. At 69 cents a patch online we can afford quite a few versus loops.

island, that gift is way too extravagant in my opinion. The best gift would be some public and final recognition about the service the DL has put in over the years. Something that involves specific anecdotes from scouts and family who have worked with him over time. "Remember the time..." A picture of the Den signed by the boys and families, a handmade item of some sort--anything would be more appreciated (by me at least) than an expensive gift that doesn't last. I'd be very uncomfortable receiving a gift like the one being proposed, and unwilling to contribute to it.

Yea, those pesky contracts that they want to get out of. Those contracts that they can renegotiate every year. If that were truly the case this wouldn't even be an issue. There is also a reason that all sorts of public sector groups are rushing to do contracts now that have languished for anywhere from nine months to two years. Before there was no urgency on the part of unions to "negotiate" because they knew that new contracts would likely call for concessions due to economic reality. But government still needed to provide services, so they knew they could simply run with no contract-essentially extending the old one in perpetuity. So they played chicken with the budget and they lost. And the dirty little secret is that local governments can still give whatever fantastic contracts they feel like doing. Isn't freedom a good thing?

@Calico: This trope that "the Republicans ran on this" is a spurious claim of certain conservative media personalities that doesn't hold up under examination. Hardly. During the campaign, Walker campaign spokesperson said about revamping health insurance: "The way the proposal would work is we would take the choice out of the collective bargaining process." Walker said, "you've got to free up local government officials to not be strangled by things like mediation and arbitration." Walker said, "With so many private-sector workers seeing their wages and benefits frozen or cut, it's hard not to expect the same from those in government." Walker said, about public sector union employees, "They have a mindset of entitlement and take it for granted they will get all these beneifts rather than saying, 'I should play a role in helping to cut costs.'" Walker said, "Other than core public safety components...all other government functions should be assessed for possible privitaization." I'll tell you one thing, the public sector unions were certainly aware of Walker's intentions as Governor: The American Federation of Teachers was so certain of Walker's intentions that they sent a flyer to teachers urging them to vote against Walker because he wanted to void parts of labor contracts," based on an on-the-record statement Walker made to the Milwaukee Journal Sentinel during the campaign. Before the election, WEAC was fully prepared to protest any action Walker took. Said Christina Brey, a spokesman for the Wisconsin Education Association Council: Our members oppose taking away their rights to collective bargaining, so they would definitely raise their voices against it." Apparently they were pretty sure of what Walker intended to do. And yet, he was still elected! Again, all these actions are no surprise to anyone who was actually paying attention both during the campaign and during Walker's tenure as a Milwaukee County Exec.

Boy, I'm sorry Basementdweller, but someone gets in my face and screams about the PWD, I'm gone, and I mean like right then, and everybody in the Pack knows why. I gotta ask why you keep putting up with the abuse. I know the anecodotes you have about the boys on other threads, but... We've had some disagreements in our pack but never anything to the point of things that are being described. I have to wonder if it's an unusual group you are dealing with or if there are other issues going on we're not aware of--I have no idea what they would be.