meyerc13

Our Council hands out leftover patches at Cub Scout recruiting events. Kids love getting old Scouting for Food or Camporee patches even though they weren't present at the events.

Be careful here... according to Youth Protection guidelines, you shouldn't have 11 year olds tenting with 17 year olds:

Phrogger, you've gotten some great replies from the Boy Scout leaders here, I'll throw one in from the Cub Scout perspective. My son just crossed over two weeks ago. He is an interesting case, his birthday is 1 week after the cutoff, so he initially started Kindergarten at age 5, but turned six a few days after school started. To make a long story short, he ended up skipping a grade, so he didn't turn 10 until a week after fifth grade started. However, in Wisconsin where I live, it's quite possible for a boy to start the first grade having just turned 6 over the summer. That means he wouldn't turn 10 (minimum age for Boy Scouts) until the summer before his fifth grade year. It's certainly possible to do the full Webelos and Arrow of Light in one year. That's how the LDS units do it, and that's how my son did it (since I wanted to keep him with his den after he skipped 2nd grade, he didn't start Webelos until the end of fourth grade, and then finished his arrow of light in March of his fifth grade year). To do that, you have to take advantage of Webelos Adventures offered at camps, Webelos Pin Days, etc. It isn't easy though, and takes a motivated Scout. With that said, I wouldn't recommend it in most cases. We have a big problem in Scouting with retention. A huge chunk of Cub Scouts don't crossover into Boy Scouts. And we lose a lot of Boy Scouts early in the program (they join, but then quit). One of the big reasons for that is the Scouts join a Troop that isn't a good fit. Maybe they want to do a lot of camping, but the Troop they join doesn't camp much. Or they want to go backpacking, but the Troop they join never ventures more than 50 feet from their trailer. To counter that, one of the most important things a Webelos leader can do is expose his den to as many Troops as possible. Even better if they can go camping with more than one of those Troops. That might mean that they don't all crossover into the same unit. However, I'd rather see them join a different Troop than have them quit or never join a Troop. It is really, really tough to get in enough Troop visits in a year to make a good choice. My son picked his Troop early on and stuck with his choice, but personally I would have liked to visit a few more that we just didn't have time to visit. As pointed out above, since it's possible that some boys in a Webelos den might not be eligible to crossover until just before their fifth grade year, I think it is a bad precedent for the Den Leader to do what he is doing. Maybe this year, all the boys are eligible to crossover, but that won't always be the case. Also, he is really doing his den a disservice by doing this, he can do almost everything with his den that a Troop can do, so what's the rush? Our Webelos Dens have Den names, vote for a Denner to act as a sort of patrol leader, and basically implement a mini version of Boy Scouts, with a bit of extra guidance from the Den Leaders. It's a real shame, unfortunately I wonder how much you can do to change it. If he has made up his mind and his boy is eligible to crossover, he will probably crossover. You might try talking to the other parents, maybe they have similar concerns and would like another 6-9 months in the Pack. If so, as long as someone steps up to serve as Den Leader you can keep some/most of the boys together. If all of the parents are so eager to join Boy Scouts, then maybe you should meet with the Troop leaders and discuss your concerns. You might be surprised, while not every boy in Scouts is a saint, I think you'll find that often they are kinder and more empathetic than the typical boy that age.

The more I learn about this the more I see that this is pretty much the Tiger Cub program circa 1982 when it started, except 1 year younger. Back then Tiger Dens were registered as part of a Pack but ran independently. They wore T-shirts for uniforms. They had a separate motto. They only came together with the Pack for two events: Blue and Gold Banquet, and a Tiger to Cub Scout crossover. They used a combination of outings along with family and den activities... There are definitely a lot of similarities, too many to be coincidence. I suspect when this idea came up, an 'experienced' Scouter suggested that the original Tiger program be used as a model. It would be interesting to dig up one of the original Tiger leader guides and Tiger handbooks... I wonder how many of the adventures are the same or similar.

That's the same thing we are hearing in our District. The challenge now is deciding on how to filter out the 'troubled' Packs. The District staff doesn't want to 'judge' units, even though the volunteer Commissioners and the District staff all know which Packs are really struggling. For one of those Packs to go out and recruit Lions, they may increase the size of their Pack in the short term, but it will likely only be a temporary bump if they then lose those kids forever because they don't have a good program. It would be a poor idea for a Pack without a healthy Committee and without enough Den Leaders to try to take on a Lion Den. The Pack is supposed to provide a 'Guide' to the Lion Den and a 'Coordinator' to go between the Pack and the District on matters concerning the Lion Den. For a Cubmaster who is already doing ten other things, it isn't fair to the Cubmaster or the kids to try to add these roles onto a plate that is already overfull. Likewise, I've heard that the Lions shouldn't be forced to participate in the fall popcorn sale. That means the Pack is going to need to have healthy fundraising to help cover the costs of these new kids (see more on this below). My recommendation to our District is to ask Packs to sign an agreement laying out the minimum expectations. (Everything that follows is my opinion only, and not official BSA or Council policy.) If they know they must provide an experienced Guide to the Lion den who isn't already a Cubmaster or Den Leader for a different den (this isn't official BSA policy that I've seen, but merely my opinion based on information I've gathered from other Councils who have tried this program), I suspect many troubled units will be excluded automatically. If they know they are going to need to raise extra funds to cover the costs of outings and supplies for that Den (again, not exactly official policy, although they do seem to emphasize not having Lions participate in fundraising, and also limiting the first year costs for these families so I suspect heavy Pack Dues may be frowned upon as well), then I suspect even more Packs will be excluded. Maybe some Packs can use this as a conversation starter with their parents - "Hey parents, if you want us to try out the Lion program, we need more of you to step up and help out. Without your help, we don't meet the requirements." One way or another, if they really only want healthy units, they are either going to have to reject unhealthy units or lay out minimum criteria that we all know the unhealthy units can't meet. If you do the first, you might end up with hurt feelings. Packs won't know why certain units are picked and others not picked. They'll think it is favoritism. If you go the second way, there is no mystery why certain units aren't running the program, and at least those units know which areas they need to improve in order to do it next year. I've found some 'applications' for units to start a Lion program from other Councils that are publicly accessible on the Internet. I'm going to show these examples to our District staff, and hopefully we can use these as a model when we come up with our own. I'm really excited by this new program. I'm an experienced Den Leader and Cubmaster whose son just crossed over. I still want to stay active in Cub Scouting with the Pack I helped to revive, and I think that starting up the Lion program in our District is a great opportunity to use my skills while at the same time not taking on too much. I think I might even be able to convince my wife to help me.. she has a degree in early childhood education and this would give her a chance to use her skills and for us to work together on something.

Old program. The compass was for earning four additional activity badges after the three required for Webelos in the old program. Now, the minimum to earn Webelos is seven, plus seven more for Arrow of Light, so there is less liklihood of a boy earning four more beyond the minimum.

Thanks, this is helpful information!

Hi, thanks for sharing. I have so many questions I don't know where to start... Might as well start at the beginning: Recruiting - does your unit recruit for Lions in the fall only? If not, how do you do spring recruiting for Lions when the kids are pre-kindergarten and possibly not in the schools that feed the Packs yet? I've heard that the Lion Den should start with an experienced Scouter as the Den Leader. Is that how your unit does it? If so, at what point do they hand the den over to one of the parents, Middle of the year, or as they become a Tiger den? How often are den meetings? Are they always held on the same day/time? What day/time are the den meetings? I've heard concerns about meeting schedules and bed times for the younger kids, when are your Pack meetings and has this been an issue? Do the adventures include outings and field trips? If so, do you have them during your normally scheduled meeting times, or are they in addition to the normal den meetings? You mention that the Lions do everything the Pack does, do the families regularly attend all Pack meetings? I've heard some suggestions that Lions only attend key Pack events (Blue and Gold, Pinewood Derby, etc.). I've heard that some Cub Scouting activities aren't available to Lions (such as Cub Scout resident camp in the summer before they start Kindergarten), does your Council or District have any events geared specifically to the Lions? There is a lot of talk about retention and burn-out... any idea how many kids who start as Lions stay in Cub Scouting through Webelos, and or beyond into Boy Scouting? I'm also curious about parent involvement. With two years (Lion and Tiger) of parents attending meetings with their boys, does that result in higher parent involvement at the Wolf-Bear-Webelos levels? Thanks in advance, I'm not sure what your role is or how many of these questions you can answer, but I'm trying to put together some information on how this has been working for units who have experienced it, and any information is helpful.

I think it is the cumulative impact, not any one specific decision. Being in the upper midwest, we have a good chunk of the year when the weather isn't conducive to outdoor activities with Cub Scouts. When the wind chil is 30 below, it isn't safe to take Scouts outside to have them run around. Running around the gymn at the school gets old after a while, and once you've gone through the dozens of different versions of tag, simon says, and red light - green light, you tend to run out of things to do to keep it interesting. Our Pack has done a post-popcorn sale night out at a local arcade the past few years and the kids love it. The facility has laser tag, and the kids love that, and it would be great if we could incorporate that into our program especially for the Wolf-Webelos boys. However, it isn't allowed. Every year parents roll their eyes when I have to explain that to them. Every year, upon conclusion of our Pack activity, a number of parents on their own time allow their kids to play. It's silly that we have to dance around the official rules for something like this, but yet that is what we have to do. I'd like to believe that National isn't so crazy that they believe that people are going to be seriously and permanently injured by laser tag and squirt guns. Based on my completely unscientific research, I don't believe it's possible for the 'lasers' in laser tag to cause any permanent eye damage. I'm sure that National's logic is actually something like "Oh my! We can't allow laser tag and water guns, we'll be teaching kids to shoot other kids!!! They'll become the next school shooter!!!" I'm sorry, but where is the science behind that logic? Most of the people who commit these crimes aren't the well adjusted Scouts who get lots of exercise running around and playing. They're loners, often with some degree of mental illness, often social outcasts. Having some experience with mental illness in my family, I know that exercise is one of the good things you can do to help treat mental illness, so it's quite possible that the BSA's policies discouraging these activities are more likely to lead to school shootings rather than to prevent them. While the Scouts who leave your units might not list BSA policies as the reason, I will bet you that a good number leave because they are bored. Why are they bored? Because sometimes our hands are tied with silly policies that prevent activities that were perfectly acceptable when we were kids, and when the list of fun things that we can't do keeps growing eventually leaders throw up their hands in frustration and settle into the same old boring routine... because if we try something new and fun it will get banned.

I read your post, and wonder if you are from my town. That sounds like some of the troops I visited as my son was getting ready to crossover this past year. In the end, he picked the troop he liked the best. Since I'm wrapping up my tenure as Cubmaster (and fill-in den leader), I haven't been able to visit one of their meetings yet (same day/time as our Den Meetings and Pack meetings) although I did attend a camp-out. A number of experienced volunteers are associated with the troop, so I'm hoping that is a good sign that they know the right way to run things. Yet I saw other troops in the area that reminded me more of Cub Scout Packs than Troops. Sadly I'm sure that every single one of us can say the same about our own area.

I happen to work in the Information Security field, and while I don't know the specifics of this case I have heard similar stories. One which has public details happened a number of years ago, but makes for interesting reading: http://www.infoworld.com/article/2642021/security/phishers--almost--scam-grocery-giant-out-of--10-million.html In that case, the funds were recovered because the destination account was at a US Bank, and the funds were still in the account. Needless to say, scammers have gotten smarter, and there often isn't a happy ending. My bet on what happened is some type of social engineering as seen in the SuperValu case, and not some highly technical explanation.

Our Pack is really excited about this. Every year when we do recruiting, we get asked by the Kindergarten parents if their boys can join (the girls can join Girl Scouts at that age). Every year I have to turn people away and tell them to catch us the next year. Now I can accept those boys into our Pack. I know it is going to be a lot of extra work, the recommendation is to use experienced leaders, not just one of the parents who has no Scouting experience. Hopefully we'll be able to identify a couple of the new parents as candidates to be Tiger Den Leaders the next year. Let me put this thought out there, if your unit decides not to do it, but the neighboring Packs do, don't be surprised if you lose boys to the other Packs. Our Pack is chartered by the Kiwanis, but associated primarily with two schools. Yet I won't turn away a family from a different school if they like our Pack's program and want to join (we now camp four times each year, do lots of field trips, and generally have an engaged core of parents who make the Pack go).

Outdoors opens a lot of other possibilities. Using some hog pans set on a couple of bricks (I'm assuming they don't have firepits for you), you could do fire building using interesting tinder. Give the visitors a choice of dryer lint, corn chips, etc. and some small kindling and demonstrate how even these unusual types of tinder can be used to start a fire. If you want to make it more interesting, instead of matches use other methods of ignition. You could demonstrate how to build an emergency shelter using sticks and branches, a poncho, etc. This takes a bit more time to do, but with a group of people can still be done in a reasonable amount of time. You could do a geocaching booth, explaing what it is, showing an example of what they will find, and hopefully there is one in the park that people could find using their smartphone (or you could start one).

I have to echo Jackdaws... I wish our Council still did these. I've brought it up with our District Execs, and with two women and a man who wasn't a Scout as a kid, they had no idea what I was even talking about. I remember our Cub Scout Pack having a booth a few times at one, but I don't remember doing it as a Boy Scout so I wonder if that is when they stopped doing them in our Council. That would put it about 30 years ago if I'm right. I think it depends on whether you are indoors or outdoors. If you are outdoors, there are more possibilities. A few that come to mind: Cast Iron pie makers. These take a couple of minutes to prep, a couple of minutes to cook, but are yummy and fun. You'd need to be careful, because these get hot like the wax you are using, but with proper supervision I've seen this done with Cub Scouts. Be sure to avoid allergens like Peanut Butter. Leatherworking - Good indoor activity. You can have visitors stamp their name onto a strip of leather and make a bookmark. Or if you want to get fancy make a neckerchief slide or bracelet. Bring earplugs or tylenol to help with the headache that several hours of listening to pounding will induce. Tic Tac Toe boards (or the triangle jumping peg game). Cut off a piece of wood using a miter box and hand saw, sand the edges with a sanding block, and using a non-electric hand drill put 9 holes (Tic Tac Toe) or 15 holes (jumping peg game) into the board and you have a nice game. You can use a template to make sure the holes end up in the right places.

Anyone else reading this and thinking, "Good thing they weren't at summer camp last year watching the Scouts do ____________..." and afraid to post it here with that blank filled, knowing that if we do it will show up in the next Guide to Safe Scouting? I can think of one popular game last summer where overly enthusiastic Scouts were walking away with bumps, bruises, and probably a few sprains as well... yet good luck trying to stop the boys from playing. I'll guarantee you that the activity I'm thinking of will undoubtedly result in some broken bones at some point (if it hasn't already), yet it was such great exercise and so much fun that I'm positive that eliminating it would be the worst thing the BSA could do. Refereeing it, may be a good idea, but eliminating it would take out too much fun to justify the slight amount of risk it would eliminate. To some degree, I get it, because I work in Information Risk Management and spend my whole day thinking up worst case scenarios and working to mitigate them. Yet I have to wonder, when I read threads like the recent one about a dull sword being used in a Cub Scout ceremony, when the BSA stopped trying to mitigate risk and instead decided their mission should be eliminating risk. How can the same organization that has a better waterfront risk mitigation process in place than any other that I've seen (and statistically a waterfront is probably the most dangerous place in our camps) be the same one that thinks that riding down a trail in a Jeep (another recent thread) is something that shouldn't be allowed? Risk can be controlled without eliminating it. It's sad when bad things happen, but Scouts have died sleeping in tents hit by floods and tornadoes. Every choice we make in life has the potential for risk, but we can't truly live without acknowledging that risk is part of living. You can't eliminate it completely, and if you try too hard life stops being fun because all you do is worry and hide, yet you are still at risk (even if you never step outside your front door a sinkhole could open up in the middle of the night and swallow you and your house whole - sadly this has really happened). I think the professional worriers at national should take a step back and look at our own waterfront program for inspiration. We can manage risk through solid rules and processes while still keeping Scouting fun.

My son just crossed over to Boy Scouts last night. I'm not sure exactly when I started to become more aware of 'country of origin' on products I buy, but I know for a fact that one of the key moments was buying him his first Cub Scout pocket knife. It was somehow just so wrong that I couldn't find a 'Boy Scouts of America' knife that wasn't made in China. Eventually I had to settle for second best, and buy him one of the BSA branded knives made in Switzerland (by Victorinox), so at least I could get quality if not American made. Since then, I've discovered just how hard it is to buy any knife that isn't made in China. Thankfully Buck and Leatherman haven't given up on our American workforce by offshoring their entire operation chasing dollar signs (although both source some of their materials offshore). Over these past four years, I've grown increasingly frustrated as each piece of foreign made junk I've bought at Wal Mart breaks and ends up in a landfill. Yet I sit and look at the 40 year old Coleman stove I own that still runs just fine. Or the Swing-a-way can opener in my drawer that is as old as I am. When I needed another one of those, I discovered that you can still buy a "Made in the USA" that is identical to the original Swing-A-Way because it's made by one of the original company's vendors (or you can buy the offshored version made in China that you'll be lucky if it lasts you a year). The latest wake-up call was shopping for some new tools to stock in my truck, even many Craftsman hand tools are now made in China. Since I've become more aware of where things are made, I've found that in some cases you can still find products that are made here, but you have to do your homework and in some cases you won't find what you're looking for. When you do find them, you'll probably pay a bit more, but not always. After the insulation on my foreign made jumper cables started to disintegrate, I found that I could pick up an American made set at Fleet Farm that was a bit more expensive than the cheap Chinese made set at Wal Mart, but less expensive than the similar Chinese made Craftsman jumper cables. Interestingly enough, this past weekend I noticed that now Wal Mart is starting to carry some American made jumper cables alongside the budget priced Chinese ones. Lately I've noticed an interesting trend, more and more products are showing up in stores with 'Made in the USA of foreign and domestic component' stickers. I think companies may be waking up to the consumer frustration with the lack of quality. If this matters to you as a consumer, you need to make sure your dollars speak. When you need a new cordless drill, don't buy the Chinese made Milwaukee or the Mexican Dewalt, buy one of the USA made Dewalt models. If enough of us support the efforts of these companies, maybe it will make a difference. In the meantime, I think the BSA should take note of this trend and seriously consider why more and more companies are adding these 'Made in the USA' stickers to their products. I'm sure they've done the market research and discovered that it does matter to a larger and larger portion of their market. For me, I'll know the BSA is on the right track when I once again see a classic style Boy Scout pocket knife with USA stamped on the blade for sale at my local Scout Shop. In the meantime, I'll have to encourage my unit to consider other options such as the BSA branded Victorinox or the $15 Buck Knife they can pick up at Fleet Farm. Sorry for the rant, but as the grandson, son, and brother of men who spent their lives building things here in America I've become very passionate on this topic and I can trace my wake-up call on this issue to that search for the elusive American made BSA pocket knife. If the day comes that the BSA ends its contract with Victorinox, I'm afraid I'll have to start searching the antique shops instead.

Wow, I wish I was in your den, it sounds like you are having a lot of fun! Don't worry about losing a few, it happens every year. Also, just because you started small doesn't mean you will stay that way. My son's Tiger den was two boys. Those two boys talked it up to some friends at school, and the next year we added a few more. Each year we've added a few boys to the den, lost a couple along the way, but a solid core of 3-4 boys with 1-2 added per year can result in a very healthy den. The key is to actively recruit... put together a flyer or poster with pictures showing all of the fun things you are doing (I hope you are taking pictures!), and try to get some boys to join this spring. Hit up your sons' class at school and see if you can get a few to join you for some fun activities this summer. If you aren't yet, get BALOO trained and if your Pack isn't doing Pack Campouts, make sure they start. Our Pack made that leap this year and it has been great. Two successful Pack campouts already, and another coming up in May. Getting the boys to camp is the best way to retain them, in my opinion. Kids love camping! Good luck, and feel free to reach out with any questions you might have.

I think it would be too much to take on both roles. My son is crossing over next week, and I started as a Tiger Den Leader for a dying Pack. Within a few months of joining Cub Scouts, I found myself 'promoted' to Cubmaster for that Pack. I am an Eagle Scout. My mom was my Wolf Den Leader. My dad was my Webelos Den Leader and Cubmaster. I knew a lot about Scouting and had some idea of what I was getting myself into. With all of that said, I almost burned myself out in that first year because we didn't have a real committee (there was one on paper, but I never saw nor heard a thing from them). I was trying to do everything myself, with a lot of help from my wife. Luckily my Chartered Org Rep stepped in and saw what was happening. He rallied the District Execs who came in and said what I wasn't saying "Chris needs help!" A few parents stepped up, and now I had a Committee Chair and another Den Leader. That started the ball rolling and now I have an active Committee, Den Leaders for almost all of my dens (we have one problem den we just haven't been able to fix), and I actually enjoy Scouting again and find I have time to be a Roundtable Commissioner. When my son crosses over, I want to stay involved with the Pack for at least a year, but I will do so in the role of Pack Trainer. That way I can help recruit leaders, mentor them, and keep the Pack heading in the right direction. In the short term, I have no plan to take on a position in the Troop he is joining. I plan to ease my way in and see where I'm needed. I'm sure I'll eventually end up in some role, but it might be good for him if I'm not one of his leaders at first. He hasn't experienced that yet (dad having no authority in the unit). Rebuilding a Pack is hard work, and you need to start by recruiting a strong Committee. Find the people who are good planners/organizers and want to work behind the scenes. Review the Pack Org Chart. Review the job descriptions. Note which things the Committee should be doing, and which things the Cubmaster should be doing. You'll be surprised if you read up on it, because most of what I see many Cubmasters doing is work that should actually fall to the Committee or Den Leaders. I honestly think that in most cases, the best role for someone who wants to rebuild a Pack is Committee Chair, not Cubmaster. As Committee Chair, in most cases it is your job to make sure the work gets done. It would be a lot easier to recruit a Cubmaster if you make clear that their main role is planning and MC'ing a monthly Pack Meeting. Then start handing out the other jobs in small chunks. It is still a ton of work, and I wouldn't want to take on a Troop position at the same time, but rebuilding a Pack as a Cubmaster isn't the best way to do it, in my experience. The Cubmaster is really stuck in the middle, and to really do it right your should be at the top - and the top position is really the Committee Chair.

Sorry for joining the discussion late, but having gone through the whole Cub Scout program I felt I could add a bit to the conversation. I don't think the Scouts stress this in their leader training as much as they used to, but a key principle has always been "Keep it Simple, Make it Fun." At the Tiger age, I see boys who like to wear the uniform, want to go to camp and shoot BB Guns and Archery, and beyond that mostly want to have fun with their friends. I think most of these driving factors stick around throughout Cub Scouts, although wearing the uniform (properly) seems to be left behind at times. Also, don't forget the Cub Scout Motto: Do your Best! That applies to Den Leaders, parents, and Cub Scouts. Does that mean that sometimes we have to adapt the program a bit to fit geography, climate, or schedules? I think it does. I remember stressing out as a Tiger Den Leader trying to get in a hike, and every Monday night we tried to do it resulted in thunderstorms. If I scheduled something else, it would be a perfectly nice night. Finally, one night I showed up for our meeting and it was sunny and beautiful. I ditched my plans for the night and took the boys and parents on a hike through a neighborhood park. It wasn't quite what I wanted to do for a hike, but they boys had fun. The new program is great, and has lots of great ideas, but some feedback I've gotten from Den Leaders is that there is just too much in some of the Meeting Plans to get it all done. When possible, we go back to the actual requirements to determine whether something in the meeting plan is directly tied to a requirement, or whether it is just extra fluff to add more fun to the adventure. We try to strike a balance between hitting all of the requirements, while still keeping it fun. It's our first year with these requirements, so I know we didn't do a perfect job, but I saw boys having a ton of fun. Building Castles out of cardboard boxes for the Good Knights Adventure... some very abstract art for the Stores in Shapes Adventure... I wish I was a Tiger Cub adult partner again! I wish I could tell you that eventually parents will get on board with the program, but let's face it, most of us don't like homework. Most of the requirements are things you can do in the meeting, especially since parents have to be there with their son at the Tiger age. Try to incorporate most of the things into Den Meetings and you can keep the boys advancing, even if you have to deviate from the Meeting Plans a bit to do it. When possible, schedule field trips on the same day/time as Den Meetings and I think you'll get better attendance. Send home progress reports with the parents outlining what their son has to do with them to get caught up. I'm curious what the events were that the other Den Leader suggested but that have nothing to do with the requirements? I wonder if some of them could fulfill a requirement with some creativity. Or, maybe those could be a reward for everyone finishing their homework with their parents? As long as they fall within the Guide to Safe Scouting and don't go against any other rules, it doesn't hurt sometimes to have fun with fellow Scouts without completing a requirement. We've had nights where all we do is play games (although this does meet requirements for most ranks), bowling (again, can probably be tied to some adventures), gone to video arcades (this one was just for fun as a reward for having a great popcorn sale). One final thought, the reason why we have requirements is to carry out the purposes and methods of Cub Scouting. It may help you to take a look at them when evaluating potential activities to determine whether they are appropriate for Cub Scouts: http://www.scouting.org/scoutsource/CubScouts/Parents/About/pandm.aspx also, don't forget the Guide to Safe Scouting: http://www.scouting.org/scoutsource/HealthandSafety/GSS/toc.aspx

I think this sums up my thoughts on this issue nicely. Let me give you an example from my personal life. My grandpa and my dad both worked in a die casting factory. My brother went to work for that same factory. Would I ever work there? Heck no. Can I understand why my brother went to work there? Yes: By not going to college, he didn't accumulate student loans. If he put in more than 40 hours per week, he got paid overtime. I work in IT, and only once did I work somewhere where I was paid overtime (although that employer reclassified my position after a year and the overtime dried up). When he was done with his shift for the day, he could leave work and focus 100% on his personal life. Working in IT, I have spent countless hours of my personal time studying to keep my skills sharp. Not to mention the overtime mentioned above. Oh, and all of the nights I was oncall, getting paged in the middle of the night to come back to work. A job in IT is pretty much never 40 hours a week. So can I list reasons why I might like his job? Yes. Yet I wouldn't ever follow that patch because: Manufacturing jobs are being offshored or moved from pro-union states to states where the companies don't have to deal with unions. The job is hot, dangerous work. Dealing with molten metal and giant machines that can manipulate metal is safer today than in the past, but one of my dad's coworkers was killed when he reached into his machine to fix some problem, his shirt got stuck in the machine, and the safety mechanism on the machine failed causing it to crush him to death. My dad also has many burns all over his body from splashes of molten aluminum. In an effort to compete with dirt cheap Asian labor, US manufacturers have cut pay so far that it is hard to support a family on a manufacturing salary. Even with the overtime, it just isn't enough. So I can understand why my brother did it, but for me it isn't the right path. That's the kind of answer I would find acceptable to this question... not "It doesn't interest me."

No, that is not a valid answer. It isn't saying "Explain why this profession does interest you," but rather why it "might." In other words, why do some people choose this profession? If someone gave me that answer, I would probably also ask them to explain why they wouldn't choose that profession. It really comes down to a discussion of the pros and cons of the profession.

In Wisconsin, the State has a nice PDF that explains whether a non-profit (such as a Scouting unit) needs to collect sales tax on their fundraising activities: https://www.revenue.wi.gov/pubs/pb206.pdf I am not a Lawyer, but basically as I read it, if you are a non-profit in Wisconsin selling for 20 or less days per year, or collecting $25,000 or less per year, then you aren't engaged in a trade or business and aren't required to collect sales tax. If you exceed both of those standards, then you might owe sales tax on your sales.

Coming from a formerly dysfunctional pack, it sounds like your Pack needs a lot of help. As others have stated, most of those things shouldn't be the Cubmaster's job. In my Pack, when I became Cubmaster, I was stuck doing many of those things but gladly would have handed them off to others. Over 3 years, I recruited and coached a Committee and have slowly but surely shed those non-CM jobs that I was doing. In your Pack, it sounds like not only is the CM doing a lot of things he shouldn't be doing, but he doesn't want to give them up, yet isn't doing them well. I can understand that last part, when the CM starts trying to take on all of those jobs, it becomes too much and he can't juggle it all. So no fault on him on that count, but I think his mistake is that he needs to let go but isn't. Since it sounds like you and your Committee Chair are equally in the dark about who should be doing what, you could reach out to your Unit Commissioner. Your District staff should be able to tell you who that is if you don't know. The UC can come in and coach all of you on the Pack Organization Chart and who should be doing what. Since, like most Packs, you probably don't have a big enough Committee to have all of the named Committee positions filled, you may have to share some tasks, but in no case should the Cubmaster be doing all of that.

Just a point of clarification in regard to shelter building, someone above said "says sleep in it. No sleep, then it's a cheat." Actually, nowhere in the handbook does it say that you *must* sleep in it, just that it should be a shelter that would protect you if you did sleep in it. Having slept outdoors without a tent as a Boy Scout on several occasions, I'm not sure that they want to scare away Scouts at the Webelos age. More often than not, between temperature and bugs, sleeping in an emergency shelter is something you do because you have to, not because you want to.

I would agree that it is a non-Scout function, so it is okay. With that said, there was just a case in the national news of a pedophile who was a Scout Leader, involved with Youth Ministry, offering swimming lessons, and had no children at home. We had another case locally where a pedophile was hosting movie nights at his house for neighborhood children (thankfully this guy wasn't a Scout leader). As a parent, would I let my son or daughter sleep over at a friend's house? In most cases the answer is yes, and that includes one of my Den Leaders and my Pack's Committee Chair. If a Cub Scout leader without kids offered to host a sleep over I would be very concerned and likely report that to the Council Executive. It's all about context, and while there are still some great, childless adults involved in Scouting who are not pedophiles, they have enough sense to follow Scouting's no 1x1 contact and two deep leadership rules in all of their interactions with kids.