zippyboro

In our town, scouts distribute the bags one Saturday to every house in town and the following week, the cubs pick everything up and take it directly to the local food pantry. We always do it the first 2 weeks of November so the timing is great for Thanksgiving. It is easily the biggest donation it gets all year. We have used post it notes on doors in the past, but this year are going back to bags as they seem to generate the best results. Kinda harder for people to toss an empty bag.(This message has been edited by zippyboro)

Our webelos den earned the money themselves to purchase a centennial tree and planted it in front of their school. We did this as part of earning the community service ribbon for the centennial patch, as well as earning the forestry pin. Being that it was just 9 boys, they all took part in the steps to planting the tree. Perhaps with a whole pack, you could divide the tasks and assign them to each den. Maybe one den gets to edge the circle, another gets to remove the sod, next gets to dig, next puts dirt back in and finally water and add mulch on top. Make sure to take pics and get them in the local paper!

Our pack provides the colors as well and there is no obligation for any family to purchase the hat.

Seems like an inappropriate name since you could always have a boy join in 5th who may not rever achieve AOL.

well, this is just about the most disturbing thread I've ever read around here. : | Way too much judgement about a scout that, like him or not, has earned his eagle... IMO, end of subject. I don't see how it is any business whatsoever, for adults in leadership positions to be looking at or hearing about what any minor child, (and yes, a 16 year old is a minor) has on his facebook. I don't care if he has made all his posts public, private, or otherwise... this does not fall under the domain of scouting leadership. Kids are naive and post way too much information for anyone and everyone to read, but that does not justify us as adults to be privy to that information. We should know better than to open that pandora's box or hear about its contents. The newspaper article was just fodder for others to talk about and speculate. I don't see that as a big deal at all. I long for the day that BSA joins the 21st century, and the determination and consequences of one's sexual orientation is no longer a point of discussion.

"Um, Zippy, your prejudice is showing, or maybe it's just snobbery. Where exactly is "around here"? Is it a particular part of the country or is it just the sand pile you have your head buried in? " ^^ummm... gee thanks, Twocubdad :| I fail to see how stating that fact that where I live, in New England, not allowing females to serve in troop leadership positions would not be accepted (and therefore being glad of that fact) makes me a snob. If it does, then I am proud to be one! Our troop has a few female ASMs in addition to the advancement chair. The boys have no problem with this... there is plenty of male role model leadership as well. My point was that most/many parents do not realize the supervisory role that the CO can have over the troop or pack. It has been my experience, that troops are selected by parents and scouts based on how they are run, who is in them and what they do... not who the CO is. I think the public perception is that BSA rules and guidelines are a national thing... not something to be altered by CO's as they see fit.

"Perhaps this thread can be moved to debate, as it appears to me to be just people complaining about others' beliefs now, and has nothing to do with BSA policy? " ^^It has everything to do with BSA policy and the fact that by all appearances, it is a welcoming, non-discriminatory public organization, but the reality, it is beholden to it's CO's beliefs and restrictions. All I can say is I'm glad I don't live in the south... this would never fly around here.

This thread has gone beyond obnoxious. It began as a one parent's vent over his son's recent behavior, and has turned into a way to question the OP's parenting skills, dedication to scouting, qualification to be a leader in said organization, not to mention accusations of trolling and general questioning and speculation about the relationship the father has with his son... it goes on and on. If someone wants to vent, then let them... there is way too much self-righteous judgement being passed along here and it does not speak well of scouting. If I were a mod, I'd lock this.

"Engineer, I don't think you're seeing past the "School is priority one" bit. Would it be acceptible for your son to get an A by cheating? Of course not. Not the same thing, you say. Okay, different question: If his classmate was struggling with the class and your son had agreed to help, then the Friday assignment landed, would you want your son to still take the time to help, or say "sorry, you're on your own bub. I gotta focus on my own grade first"? " ^^Just when I thought this thread couldn't get any more absurd... what does cheating and or choosing whether or not to help a friend have to do with this situation? Are you trying to say that by going on the camp out he'll learn to never cheat or if he chooses to finish the assignment and miss the camp out, he will become a completely self absorbed ass consumed by greed ambition and avarice? Now who's being cut and dried? If only everything was that black and white...

Clearly, there is never going to be a consensus here on this situation. Most of us feel that there should be a balance between academics and extra-curricular, but there are a surprising number of people that see scouting as a priority, and should take precedence over school. That's certainly not the way our troop is run and if it were, it would be a very small group. The need to dissect the assignment and the timeframe, whether or not it was reasonable is not the point. He got an assignment that was going to require him to work over the weekend... big deal. You really think that merits complaining to the principal and the teacher??!! Unless there is a pattern of the teacher repeatedly handing out extensive assignments, I don't think you have a case... it was described as an advanced language arts class anyway. More should be expected of the students. Sometimes the best laid plans go awry and you just have to accept it and deal with it. Sometimes that means you can't always do everything you want. As for those who have stated that the commitment to the troop comes first, the question is, did he go on the camp out because of a sense of obligation to the troop or because he wanted to go and have fun? My money is on the latter.

Beavah... there is honor in a students commitment to do their best in school as well. You can't just take the moral high ground here and say it's only a component of scouting. Your implication that by putting schoolwork ahead of scouting is in some way encouraging him to go down a path of greed and ambition is a bit far fetched. You feel that he was right to keep his commitment, but was he also right to hide the reality of his work situation to his dad? Dishonesty is not a part of the scout oath.

"I am more bothered by a good manners belt loop than a video game belt loop. We are awarding the boys for something that should be a natural thing." ^^ agree 100%

Scoutnut, regardless of the source, this seems inappropriate to bring up on your own in this thread... better stated in a DM.

I can't believe some of the comments here. His schoolwork is priority one... he is a student first, a scout second. Scouting is extra curricular. If he had committed to providing the food for his patrol, then he still needs to fulfill that commitment, but nothing more. As Lisabob said, what would bother me the most is that he was dishonest about the situation and subsequently neglected his work. Trying to discern whether he really needed the whole weekend to work on the assignment is immaterial. He should have been upfront about his situation and gone from there. Beavah, it's great that you have a job situation that would allow you to stand up to a client and just say you have prior commitments, but not everyone would be able to do that and it is certainly unrealistic to expect a student to say to their teacher that he can't do an assignment because he's going camping.

I guess my question is did he get the assignment done to your satisfaction? If so, I have no problem with it as it was his own form of time management. However, if he didn't have enough time, then I'm with you... he should not have gone on the camp out and yes, I would be saying the same thing if it were a family trip as well. Taking along homework on a camping trip is one thing, but a fairly major writing assignment is another. You are right in expecting him to be able to prioritize and scouting does not come before school work.

yes, I'm sure it's the beginning of the end of scouting as we know as well as a contributing factor to the corruption of today's youth : D seriously, it's. a. belt. loop. I really don't see it as a big deal and I can tell you that the boys are sure excited about it, which is all good. For all intents and purposes, this is really not all that different than the chess belt loop.... not like that is part of the outdoor scouting program. Believe it or not, there is a level of strategizing in gaming and if the boys are having a good time playing together, where is the harm? Was it necessary? Probably not, but I don't think it's a detriment to the program. The primary focus is ratings and time management... not offensive.

At least in my area, I would say that scouting is more the victim of overscheduling than the cause. Many families are hesitant to sign up for scouts with the various sporting commitments they already have. Being involved in either cubs or boy scouts, involves making a family commitment to the program. Unfortunately, that is not something that everyone is looking for these days.

take a field trip to a local courthouse. The judge and probation officer spoke to them and they got to watch a few short cases. ALso got a tour of facilities includiing the "lockup." Always good to get them out.

I do not understand the total hesitancy and resistance to call this an act of hazing. I am not trying to define it as such in a legal sense, nor am I in any way implying that the incident should be reported to authorities outside of scouting. But this is beyond a simple prank and became so the second the older scouts abused their power/level of influence over a younger scout to get them to do what they wanted to do. It would be a prank if they did it themselves, but they made the conscious decision to involve a subordinate, so to speak. They knew that the younger boy would probably go along with the plan in order to be accepted by them.... and that is the "initiation process" that pushes it beyond the realm of a repulsive practical joke. The reluctancy in this thread to see this act for the abuse of power that it was is rather disconcerting...

Beavah, I used the web site's definition, because it it described hazing in the broad general sense that it really is. I am not part of that advocacy group as you describe it, nor am I lobbying to stop hazing in any political sense. It seems to me, without ever having looked up a legal definition, hazing is a process of initiating or testing someone, usually younger or less experienced by someone older and more experienced through the exertion of power and influence over the younger, less experienced participant. Whether the process used is dangerous, harmful, reckless or just plain stupid, in my opinion, is beside the point. We are not here trying to determine the degree of the misdeed, but rather the simple fact that an older scout inappropriately used his power as a more experienced scout in a completely inappropriate and unscout-like way. As far as Lisa's sense that handing out service hours makes serving them seem like a punishment, I still feel that the greater good is being served by doing them and it is really no different than an individual being ordered by a judge to perform x number of hours of community service. First and foremost though, troop and family apologies are in order.

Barry, I don't agree with the expulsion either. I would rather stick them with 40 plus service hours to complete before being allowed to join any troop activities and certainly, no BOR's in the meantime. If that is too much for them, then they were never really invested in the program and just don't get it. Give them a chance to learn a lesson... they can leave on their own accord.

from stophazing.org webbsite" "Hazing refers to any activity expected of someone joining a group (or to maintain full status in a group) that humiliates, degrades or risks emotional and/or physical harm, regardless of the person's willingness to participate. In years past, hazing practices were typically considered harmless pranks or comical antics associated with young men in college fraternities. Today we know that hazing extends far beyond college fraternities and is experienced by boys/men and girls/women in school groups, university organizations, athletic teams, the military, and other social and professional organizations. Hazing is a complex social problem that is shaped by power dynamics operating in a group and/or organization and within a particular cultural context. Hazing activities are generally considered to be: physically abusive, hazardous, and/or sexually violating. The specific behaviors or activities within these categories vary widely among participants, groups and settings." Evemori... THIS was hazing.

This is hazing which should never be tolerated to any degree... it is a surefire way to lose the faith of the new scout parents. The older boys should know better by reason of both age and particularly if they are in any position of leadership. They should bear the brunt of the punishment. I would think many additional service hours are the way to go.

"I also see Den Chiefs mention in here alot. Seems that they are used quite frequently. Yeah, I know that it isn't always a success story, but that was something I was willing to do just for their benefit. It doesn't matter to me if it happens or not. " ^^Having den chiefs is to YOUR benefit more so than to theirs

I'd say you should have a better handle on how it would be received by the parents...