bobwhite

Thanks jmc and Mike, Sounds as if we have similar outlooks and I do appreciate the input. One factor in all this is the fact that the CC is an Eagle and past member of the troop. He is a very organized fellow and very good at aspects of what he does. I think part of the difficulty arose when he drove a couple of scouts off from the troop for what I thought was mildly disruptive behavior and he saw as an impediment to the troop being what he wants it to be. I got the boys to return in spite of repeated rudeness on the CC's part and did council the boys on the importance of "living the Oath and Law". In the long run the CC won out, however. He will only accept a level of behavior and devotion that matches his, although I understand from those who knew him as a scout, he was not always a model citizen then either. When I disagreed with him and maintained that some of the boys whose behavior was farthest from our goals are the ones most in need of scouting, he began to find fault in many thing I did and began to campaign to the parents and other leaders for my removal. The new scoutmaster, while an old friend of mine is more easily manipulated. I think the instructing issue was mostly smoke for injecting more of his control over daily operations, as the scouts were conducting that part of the program pretty well on their own, in keeping with their current levels of individual commitment. It seems that anytime the CC asked what had gone wrong, if I gave an honest appraisal of the causes, such as too many boys had sports to attend, or chose not to really give an event their all, he said that I was balming everyone but myself. I don't think any adult leader in a voluntary youth activity can do more than provide opportunities and support while trying to motivate. I will continue to try to help as called upon, but will have to recognise that my own two sons are not youth in the troop anymore and have expressed an interest in going elsewhere. Y'all take care.

Hi Mike and all you others who have been kind enough to respond, Perhaps narrowing this trouble down to a couple of specific issues would help. In keeping with the adult association goals of scouting, which we both agree on, I think our main difference is in implementation. I was seeking to monitor the troop and make certain that correct information was being given by the youth instructors and that adults would only work to help the instructor prepare. Our CC wants adults to do most of the instruction and be directly involved. I think part of his motivation is to get the parents more a part of the weekly meetings, but the boys learn by teaching as much as by being taught and that the CC's model is more in line with the Cub program than with scouting. Another issue was his decision to cancel our participation in a district event because he felt we were unprepared. I maintained that the boys were learning just what it takes to be prepaired and that perhaps a less than spectacular performance at one event might just provide the motivation to get really ready for the next one. Since my original posting I have been removed from Scoutmaster and am now back on the committee with no job, although I offered to take one of several. Lest I sound like sour grapes, I am glad to pass on the mantle to the old friend who now has the job and perhaps will be able to enlighten the remaining parents as to their options from this vantage point better than before. I am also looking for another troop in need of leaders, as my two sons, who are both Eagles and now adults are dissatisfied with the situation and it may work better for us to simply find a troop that is working along the lines we understand to be inline with scoutings goals and organizational ideals. Thanks for all the discussion.

cjmiam brings an important point up by seeking to codify the meaning of agnostic with a definition from an authoritative source. While I am sure that the definition given is accurate for those within the Agnostic organization, itself, I am left wondering if it is also as correct for many folks who are not as interested in setting artificial boundaries for themselves. The simple definition of agnostic as someone who is seeking knowledge, and therefore does not profess to "know all things", is one that is most prevalent in the community at large. While it may be upsetting to some fundamentalists, or others who hate to have their belief system challenged, it is not a challenge to the recognition of a higher power. Picking nits seems to be a time honored passtime for some, but as a leader, it seems pretty pointless to spend so much time trying to disqualify folks for simply being honest.

The definition of agnostic that I have always understood is "one who does not know". This admission of a degree of uncertainty is very different from making the assertion that God does not exist, as in athesism. By that definition, we are all seekers of knowledge, I hope, and as none among us has firsthand knowledge of God, we could all be agnostics. The reluctance to identify oneself with a particular denomination or organised religion does not, by any stretch, mean that a person has rejected God.I know several Eagles who are agnostics, in the sense above, and I have seen a higher moral standard lived daily by them than many self proffessed Christians. I would be more concerned with a scout's attitude about a higher force and how he lives within accepted moral codes than nitpicking. All above is in my own humble opinion.

Camp Daniel Boone is highly recommended. As already stated it has many fine programs, but you should call or write the Daniel Boone council, I think they even have a web site, http://www.danielboonecouncil.org/. I am from the area and have spent 36 summers troop weeks there, as a Scout and Scouter. We are going to have a new, state of the art dining hall this summer, and several other improved instruction and support areas. Check on the llama trek availability, as I am not certain about whether or not that program is running this coming season. They also have COPE courses, rock climbing, canoeing and rowboating on Lake Allen, waterfront with safe swim defense classes, rifle and bow shooting, and high adventure programs including hikes on the Appalachian trail and surrounding Shining Rock Wilderness Area. The staff is consistantly well qualified and enthusiastic. I will have to say that sometimes the insects are a little trouble, but not likely in comparison to what you experience at home. Hope this helps.

LNT is a great program, and like one of the posters we have tried to never leave a mess behind, even if it was there before us. However, I consider cooking over a wood fire, firebuilding and campfires all to be important parts of a well rounded Scout experience. Naturally the locations and impact for these have to be considered carefully and discussed with your Troop, so that they understand the reasons and hopefully, as adults, will be able to pass on these skills and judgements. Some of the extreme criteria advised by the LNT hardliners regarding the choice of tent and clothing colors also need to be weighed according to your own situations. I would much rather see a purple tent camped in a field whose owner leaves nothing behind than an earthtone shelter surrounded by "artifacts". Guess I'm just funny that way.

Our troop is dealing with a committee chairman who thinks only his ideas are worth following, and while most are from the book, he also refuses to listen to some program suggestions that are also from the book. We have mixed parental support and are loosing scouts because of his overbearing manner. Suggestions?