Wilton125

BSA "Predatory Pricing" example: Uniform "Switchback Pants": $44.99 http://www.scoutstuff.org/bsa/uniforms-insignia/mens/pants/centennial-switchbacks-uniform-pants.html "Thrifty" example: non-BSA "convertible pants": $24.99 http://www.campmor.com/outdoor/gear/Product___75430 BSA "Predatory Pricing" example: Supplex Uniform Shirt: $44.99 http://www.scoutstuff.org/centennial-boy-scout-male-leader-long-sleeve-supplex-nylon-uniform-shirt.html "Thrifty" example: non-BSA "Men's Travel Shirt": $24.99 http://www.campmor.com/outdoor/gear/Product___73470

"But the BSA is a business, that sells and licenses products and resources to its customers. So yes, it's membership in some cases is a "profit center."" BSA is a business? Really? I thought that they were a non-profit organization. Based on this web-page http://www.scouting.org/sitecore/content/bsafoundation/donoropportunities.aspx "In many ways, Scouting is unique among the charities and other youth organizations of the world." I thought that BSA was a non-profit organization. I guess that I missed that memo as well.

"Talk about an oxymoron... you have to PAY to VOLUNTEER? That kind of puts a shot across the bow of community service." This seems to be part of a disturbing trend in recent years on the part of BSA National to view their membership base as a "profit center". The high-cost to serve as a volunteer at the National Jamboree is one example. Case in point: The "new" Centennial Uniform" costs significantly more than the prior uniform, it is lower quality and is no longer made in the USA. Case in point: Canada's Scout uniforms are made in Canada and cost significantly less than the US Scout uniforms. Why are the US Scout uniforms so expensive in comparison? It appears that BSA National views their membership as a "profit center" that they are very willing to take full advantage of. I think that BSA should take a look at the meaning of the 9th point of the Scout Law; a Scout is "Thrifty". I find that this examples of behavior by BSA National to not be "Thrifty" but that of an economic predator that exploits a captive market.(This message has been edited by Wilton125)(This message has been edited by Wilton125)(This message has been edited by Wilton125)

At my district roundtable, I received a glossy, color brochure for the 2013 Jamboree, with the theme "Go Big, Get Wild" Link to the brochure: http://www.nashuavalleybsa.org/cms/images/stories/JamboRegistration_SBRsite.jpg Featured images include: - Skateboarding - A teenage girl shooting at an archery target - A rifle target - A scuba diver There were NO images of: - Scouts in uniform or "Class B''s - No tents - No traditional scoutcraft Did I miss the memo from BSA National about the change in emphasis of the Scout Program and the National Jamboree? I was both "puzzled" and disappointed in this emphasis on non-traditional Scout activities. I look forward to your thoughts and comments on the themes emphasized in this brochure. Steven Scoutmaster Troop 125, Wilton, CT(This message has been edited by Wilton125)(This message has been edited by Wilton125)

SaxTeacher: Your recent posting in this thread caught my attention and i feel compelled to address a number of the points that you raised. "Sure, you can order a "custom unit number" in a silly shape, or with extra words on it - but why not just order "the real thing"? That is, a one piece unit number with veteran bar included. It's cheap and easy." > The patches that I ordered from an alternative source cost significantly LESS than > BSA National Supply. I personally resent that BSA treat its members as a "profit > center". In addition my custom unit patches were made in the USA by a fellow Scouter. "I visited Craig's web site, and to be honest I was stunned and saddened by the stuff I saw there. Every unit number on there is, well, wrong. His "custom unit numbers" include the town name... they include the state shape..." > "Wrong"? My National Jamboree contingent from the Connecticut Yankee Council as well > as other CT contingents have had unit numbers in the shape of the state of CT. Prior > to 2010, white numbers on a red background were used. For 2010, green numbers on a > khaki background were used. I have seen similar state unit patches for other square > states like Pennsylvania and Colorado. No one from BSA national ever said these > patches were "wrong". "The word "uniform" means "the same," and the bootleg "custom unit number" patches Craig is selling are anything but. Evidently that doesn't bother Craig or his customers, but it sure seems wrong to me. I'm sorry to be a downer (after all, delivering a good quality fun program to the boys is far more important than wearing the right patches) but I just hate to see entire units mucking up their uniforms with what I can only call "bling."" > Many Troops have "custom", non-BSA National supply, hats and neckerchiefs, my Troop > included. We followed the BSA National brand guidelines in design and manufacture. > No one in my Troop or Council has called these custom items "bling". "You're from Wilton, Connecticut? Well lah-dee-dah, good for you." > Yes, I am proud that my Troop is from Wilton, CT. Unfortunately, we lost community > strips from our uniform about 25 years ago. As councils merge, it is common to have > Troops with the same unit number in the same council. Having our town name in our > Unit Number is a source of pride for our Scouts and leaders. "Unit Pride" is an > important aspect of a strong Troop program. > Finally, I have worked with Craig on the development of our custom unit number. > I have also gotten to know Craig and his background in and dedication to the Scouting > program. In my opinion, Craig has a great eye for design and helped our Troop design > and produce an attractive and special unit patch.

I would much prefer to support a Scouter in the US than a China-based, "sweat-shop" that is authorized by BSA National Supply to make Troop numbers. I dislike the use of BSA outsourcing on uniforms and related items to China in order to turn BSA supply into a "profit-center" for the BSA. What happened to: "On my honor, I will do my best, to my duty, for God and my country."? We would be better of supporting US-based, small business operations as opposed to China-based, sweat-shops.

I am also getting a warning message from Firefox (3.16.17) is a "suspicious" site. Here is the message: "This web page at www.scouter.com has been reported as an attack page and has been blocked based on your security preferences." There was no problem on May 11, 2011; the problem started on May 12, 2011. No problem is encountered in IE8.

Readers of this thread will probably appreciate this Youtube video: "A Disappointed Scout" on YouTube (This message has been edited by Wilton125)

BSA National Should Be Ashamed! 1. BSA chooses to have official uniforms made in a country that doe s not allow Scouting. 2. BSA offers inferior quality to its membership at higher prices. 3. BSA increases its margin on between uniform wholesale and retail costs This is just wrong; it reflects poorly on BSA National!

US Military Uniforms are made in the USA; probably because of a Federal Government law. So there must be vendors that produce uniforms for the US military that would like the additional business from BSA. According to Wikipedia, there are 2.9 million Scouts and 1.1 million leaders; that is a significant potential marketplace. I find it hard to believe that there are NO US manufacturers that would want this business!

I was a Scout in the 1960s and I liked the "classic" Scout uniform of that era. When I see Norman Rockwell pictures at my local council office, I always smile to myself about being a Scout in 1960s. From my perspective, some of the evolution over the past 40 years has been good, some has been bad and some has been ugly. Here is my personal opinion about the Scout uniform evolution: GOOD: - The tan shirt with OD pants - The introduction of switchbacks pants - The introduction of breathable fabrics - The use of tan shirts into the Weblos program - The introduction of subdued insignia for the new uniform - The intoduction of the world scouting emblem - The introduction of Expedition Hat BAD: - The green and red-top socks, especially knee socks - The elimination of the neckerchief as a uniform element - The retention of brass buckles for uniform pants - The "cargo"-style pants with useless pockets - The pocket on the sleeve of the new uniform shirt UGLY: - The red and green "baseball" type hats - The pea green shade of the uniform pants prior to the switchbacks - The wide ("elvis") collar of the current uniform shirt - The shift of uniform manufacturing to China I am sure that these opinions will provoke some interesting comments from my fellow Scouters.

Reference: "Our local scout camp has spent a lot of money building a brand new scoutmasters lounge with Wi-Fi access, coffee pots, and A/C" If this is true, then it really reflects a sad situation about a Scout summer camp. As someone that has worked in the technology field (IBM, Deloitte, Intel) for the past 34 years, I really enjoy going to Scout Camp to get away from technology for a week. Personally, I think that this "Scoutmaster Lounge" sends the wrong message to Scouts at summer camp. If Scoutmasters have an a lounge with A/C and wifi, why should the Scouts not have the same facilities? At summer camp, I would not want to have Scouts hanging out in a Scout lounge playing video games. My council summer camp, Camp Sequassen, is reamarkably similar in facilities to the Scout summer camp that I attended in the 1960s, Camp Noquochoke. I think that the lack of "modern creature comforts" is a good experience for both leaders and Scouts. How do others feel?

A few days back, I asked about the following: "I am very curious about the rational for: - Changing the color of the switchback pants - Why? - Changing the design of the action shirt to include shoulder straps and the left sleeve pocket - Why? - Changing the accent color from red to green - Why? - Changing the belt on the new switcback pants - Why? - Finally, In the past, why was the neckerchief made optional and reduced to a size that really makes it useless? When the US military changes it's uniform, the changes are field tested and communicated to the personnel. I am really disappointed that in this day and age of the internet and web forums like scouter.com thta BSA National staff does not feel that this type of communication is important in this day and age. The folks on the forum seem to be long time Scouters that may have some keen insights that will help me understand this question." I do not think that I was being critical of the process. I was asking for some information to help um understand the rational for these decisions. Can anyone provide some information and insights to these questions?

It is good to hear that the BSA field tests these uniforms before they are adopted. Is information on these field tests available to the BSA membership? If so, where can it be found? Is there any reason that the feedback of these tests needs to be a "secret"?

How does the BSA test these new uniforms before they are made official? Over the past few fears we have seen the introduction of new pants ("switchbacks") and a new semi-official shirt ("Acton Shirt"). So I am very curious the rational for: - Changing the color of the switchback pants - Why? - Changing the design of the action shirt to include sholder straps and the left sleeve pocket - Why? - Changing the accent color from red to green - Why? - Changing the belt on the new switcback pants - Why? - Finally, Why was the neckerchief size reduced to a size that really makes it useless? When the US military changes it's uniform, the changes are field tested and communicated to the personnel. I am really disappointed that BSA National staff does not feel that this type of testing and communication is important in this day and age. The folks on the forum seem to be long time Scouters that may have some keein insights that will help me understand this question.

I just received information on the new Scout uniform. Overall, the new unform really did not come as a surprise. Given the recent introduction of the semi-official Boy Scout Action shirt and the switchback pants, I thought that this would probably be the basis of a new BSA uniform. And, the recent 2-for-1 sale of switchbasck pants, (I bought 2 pair as did many Scouts and Scouters in my troop) was apparently driven ny a desire to clear out soon to be obsolete stock. Like many on this forum, my unofficial field uniform has been a tan supplex shirt and OD supplex pants (both from Columbia). This has worked worked well for me as a working field uniform for summer, spring and early fall. Issues that I would like to see discussed: The use of velcro to attach such things as: - Rank - Position of Responsibility - Temporary activity patch - Patrol patch Velcro is used by the military with field uniforms to attached badges that often change. Why was this not adopted by BSA for the new uniforms? The shift from red to green as the accent color for Scouts. I remember in the early 60s when the Boy Scout accent color was green. The knee sock garter tabs were green as well as the optional cotton poplin jacket. It is interesting that the color backing for service stars has consistently remained green. I agree that I think that the Boy Scout accent color should be DIFFERENT than Venturing and Exploring. It appears that the Troop # patch returns to the red on OD colors used pre-1960. I agree with other comments that I would like the POR badges to return to the classic format simple format without the scout emblem. I also agree that the switch back shorts are 2" to 3" too short. This will not be well received by most boys. As a "survivor" of the 2005 National Jamboree, I do think that the new uniform will perform better in 110+ degree heat than the present uniform. I do agrren with concerns about how well a neckerchief will work with the new uniform. Finally, I see that my current switchback pants were made in China. It is SAD that the BSA uniform is sourced from China. If not the US (which is what I would have preferred), then why not Latin America? Does every manufactured item have to come fron China? Steve Wilton, CT