WildernesStudent

So I am on spring break sitting at home watching youtube videos and I was just wondering if anyone knows of a place in Northeast GA where one can go repelling (maybe even Aussie style!).

Well, I'm a full-time student. Right now I have 19 credit hours so I'm spending all my time trying to keep my grades up. This summer I will be working at a camp (for my second year in a row) I will be on call 24/7 for anything that might come up, as well as running around outside in 90 degree weather...oh what the heck...I love every minute of it!! Next year I will be cutting my credit hours down to 18 and getting a job though...fun times.

Ok, so maybe it wasn't 20 degrees (more like 30) but it sure felt cold! Infact, I am still cold this morning (and probably getting sick too...who knows what was actually in that water)BTW I figured out what end of the canoe is the front (I would like to brag that it was my own recent aquired knowledge but the fact was the emblem of the company was on the one end)Also, it looks like I may have found someone to give me a couple lessons (I don't think they know what they're getting into) Also, i'm planning on taking a WFA course our school offers (for our Outdoor ed majors) think of me while I'm running around the woods trying to look like I know what I'm doing lol My friends have dropped the idea of a flat river and now want to canoe down the Chatahoochee...I don't think can actually do that in a canoe but they're under the impression that it is personal opinon. Anyone actually been on that river??

So, now I see what you mean about water being colder then you think. I just got back from our annual 'end of midterms polar jump'.... 20 degree water in 59-degree weather.... I don't recommend it...though I'm sure that once I get the feeling back into my body I will feel invigorated (or just plain cold). Anyways, maybe we should wait until it's warmer for our little outing I do not want to have to swim in water that cold...I don't think I would be able to. I don't know, what do you guys think?

"Swimmers must pass this test: Jump feetfirst into water over your head. Swim 75 yards in a strong manner using one or more of the following strokes:�sidestroke, breaststroke, trudgen, or crawl; then swim 25 yards using an easy resting backstroke. The 100 yards must be swum continuously and include at least one sharp turn. After completing the swim, rest by floating" OneHour Holy frekin crap! People can actually do that! I don't know anyone who can do that not even my lifeguard friends (no wonder the BSA has their own lifeguards) Thats completely and utterly it, I want to swim like that! And I am being completely serious! I've had swimming lessons but nothing like that (why is it exactly they are taught so much?) I think they should teach all children how to swim like that(it would prevent all these drowning accidents) I've already decided that I am going to work on my swimming this summer (its very rusty..) I don't know how it's going to go though....I have a bad knee and also hurt my back last summer (I completely deserved it...stupid stunt) but does anyone know where I can learn how to swim like that and how long it would take? I have an Eagle Scout friend who might be persuaded to teach me but we'll both be pretty busy. hmm maybe we should just wait on the canoeing and then do it sometime when a scout troop is...that way we wouldn't die and they could get their life saving badges!! (yeah yeah..bad idea I know lol)

Hmm to be perfectly honest I dont know what river it isI think its part of the Savannah River that flows out of Hartwell Lake in Hart State Park (infact I am pretty sure that's what it is)I do know that one side of the river is South Carolina and the other side of it is Georgia since the video was taken the Georgia side has been shut down to the public but the South Carolina side is still open (GA and SC never could agree on anything) they even have a ramp for fishing boats and such. No worries about drinking, I know this might be hard to believe given our generation but there are some college students out there who dont do it (doesnt strike us as appealing) and even if we did you would have to be a real idiot to do it while canoeing. As for reading the river and all that some of my friends have been boating on it before during this time of year and according to them while the current is there it is lazy. The water probably is down lower then normal (due to sever droughtwhich is why we cant canoe in the lake) but its so deep it doesnt matter anyways. As for hiking out and everythingits not going to happen. The place we would start has a parking lot and a place to put boats into the water and the river itself follows the roadour friends who have gone there before simply turned their boat around on the river and went back to where they started (that is they paddled back. the current isnt to bad I would then assume) I suppose if we couldnt do that we would just get out somewhere and someone would go back to get the trucks and pick everyone else up. If we do this it defiantly will not be anytime around when it is dark. We would go in the late morning (tenish) and probably stay until late afternoon (twoish). We will have spare paddles (they come with renting the canoeat least I would assume thats why you would get five paddles for a three person canoe) I dont think we will take anything else out with usmost likely we will stay near to the shore (but not to close) and wont go down stream at all. As for getting lessons firstthere really isnt anywhere around here to get lessons and if there was we probably couldnt afford them. Our friends who have gone canoeing before (I think one might have been a sea scout or something) said they would take us out in a small lake first and teach us some basic stuff (like how to get in the canoe lol) I dont know anyone who can kayak (much less owns one while paying about $20,000 per year for school) but we are going to make sure that those who know how to canoe are paired with the ones who dont know how and everyone will be wearing PFDs if they wont wear them they wont be allowed in the boat. I will even be wearing one, and I absolutely despise them! Oh and I actually did some research on canoeing ont he Savannah and found this on a website: "The journey of the Savannah from source to mouth is a study of contrasts. It originates clear, cool, and free-flowing in the Blue Ridge Mountains. However, its mountain tributaries are dammed and impounded many times before even reaching the Savannah. The Savannah itself comes into being not as a surging, vibrant stream, but as a still mass of backwater in the Hartwell Reservoir, into which the Savannahs parent tributaries, the Tugaloo and the Seneca, empty." We are about....two hours from Blue Ridge sooo I think what we have is the 'backwash' I think because the lake exists because the water is dammed I don't think we should have much problem with a current. Any more thoughts?? Oh, and if you have IM feel free to send me a message I am usually on (since I am usually stuck in my room doing hw anyways) Oh and I found a picture and info of where this place is maybe some of you have been there before it's on highway 123 along the GA/SC border...i don't know if the link will work or not but here it is: http://jmichaelk.aminus3.com/image/2007-08-27.html(This message has been edited by WildernesStudent)

"Basic plan of action: Get a rope Find a rock cliff, and have fun!" jblake47 So I laughed when I read this because I know people who have actually done that and have watched people do it too (some on youtube...if you ever wants some laughs try watching some of these activities on there lol Never underestimate the stupidity of American youth) Ok...let me see... the river. This river is very wide and very deep but also very calm...believe me I have no desire to go on rapids! We will have life jackets because we get them free when renting the canoe...now whether people will wear them or not is debatable, though I am sure we will make a rule about it. I know most of the people in the group are strong swimmers but I hardly think that matters when you are going to be in the middle of a river and would have to swim several yards to get out (I know I was never able to do more then three laps around an Olympic sized pool and that was when the water was warm) What exactly is the BSA swimming test, the requirements that is? Um...hypothermia...it's rather warm down here at the moment but the water probably still is cold (something I hadn't considered so thanks for bringing it up) I suppose I will find out how cold it really is when I go to our 'end of midterms polar dip' tomorrow (last year it was so cold that those who jumped in completely lost their breath and for that matter the capability to breath while in the water...hopefully it will be warmer this year). Um...since we will probably flip the canoe we will probably just all wear your average run of the mill swimsuits with gym shorts and t-shirt over them...and (here I go sounding stupid again) which end is the pointy end? The canoes we are renting have two pointy ends...also they are very very very very light I could probably drag one around myself (and I have the upper body strength of a kitten...I paddled for 10 minutes and couldn't use my one arm for two days) It looks like three people can fit in it but apparently five can, would more weight make it easier or harder to flip? Anyways, thanks for the tips again...if it's to cold we probably will wait on it a few more weeks. Oh here is a link to a video...ignore the idiots in the video and tell me what you think of the river Does it look ok for first time canoers? thanks again! (if the link is being dumb and doesn't appear above simply go to youtube and type in "Dave E. Back Flip on Broken Bridges" (and for the record I think what they're doing is stupid as heck) (This message has been edited by WildernesStudent)

So yeahwere going canoeingany tips? Basic plan of action: Rent canoe, Canoe on river, And have fun! I want to also add that there are a couple people in our group who have canoed before on several occasions, but there are also several of us who havent and arewell for lack of a better word accident-prevention challenged lol so I thought I would go a head and ask for some pointers. I have gone a few times (few meaning twicebut it sounded better) but it was a free for all with no supervision or instruction. I dont think it will be to hard to actually get the boat where we want to goprovided we remember which is our left and which our rightI think our problem might be staying dry and/or getting the canoe and us out of the water after we fall in (I have decided to just accept the fate that we most likely will end up in the waterhaving me in a canoe alone it is guaranteed, not to mention some of my friends who actually make me look graceful). Anyways, thanks! Oh! And cause I am just psyched I AM TOTALLY DONE WITH MIDTERMS STARTING TWO HOURS AGO!!! (Sorry, had to get that out of my system) So on that noteI am going to go take a nap.

Sorry for the confusion, Yes, I do want to know how to prepare a group (with very little outdoor skills) to go hiking. I need basic advice on what to take and how to do it etc However, I do happen to have other, more competent, friends and we make a point of going off trailing (seriously, well sayhey on Saturday lets go off trailing) or usually as a general rule when I go with them I know we will probably end up going off the path. I wasnt originally going to actually post this question because I know there are different opinions and I didnt want it turning into controversial issue (which is why I purposely didnt name the topic what do you think of off trailing). Dont get me wrong, as I said I respect the BSA a lot (I was very resentful from ages 10-12 that I hadnt been born a boy and therefore couldnt join loleven made my dad call to make absolutely sure they didnt have other girls in the troop.) but I know rules differ when youre the designated leader and are in charge/responsible for a group (especially when you belong to/represent an organization) then if you are one of say 8 college students going hiking over the weekend. I agree with a lot of rules the BSA has but how many of them are rules because of the fact that it is a group being lead by a leader, there is always the possibility of portraying the organization in a bad light (Boy Scouts Deface Nature), or because of liability (Tragic Accident Results in Billion Dollar Lawsuit Against The Boy Scouts of America...)? Dont get me wrong, rules are good, most of them are just plane logic to prevent accidents (If someone falls of a 12 ft log it really wont matter how they got into the situation, why they did it or should they have been up there in the first place, whatever the reasons you still have a life or death situation on your hands). Which is why I posted this topic (though i suppose I could have been more spacific) hypothetically, if you were going off trailing with a group of friends what would you take that would differ then on a normal (normal being on a trail) hike? Thanks again! I hope this made sense...I kinda had to cut it short because if I don't run down to dinnenr I will probably get rained on (I lost my umbrella and water-proof coat...welcome to my world)

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------- "Im an off trailer. Not just in hiking or hunting, but I think of life in general. Im disappointed the political correctness bled all over the thread, but not surprised. Off trailing is action of individuality. Our society today defines individuality as becoming part of the group. I dont think there are that many people who feel an impulse to go off trail. Or maybe they are just too afraid. Going off trailing is searching out a moment of personal fulfillment without being selfish. Not going against the flow, but instead finding a place of no resistance in the flow. It is a place that for the moment feels like where we are meant to be. More often then not, going off trail is spontaneous because a moment of gratifying solitude is hard to plan. And you dont have to be alone to find that kind of solitude. I found myself putting down the fishing pole at the Fish Camp on a Philmont trek just so I could sit and watch the scouts fish. Along with scouts quiet in their task, I was surrounded only by the breeze in the trees, the trickling of the creek and an eagle circling above. Of course the choice to put down the pole is not the same off trail adventure as turning left to find yourself in the center of a meadow sitting between two mountains. But the inspiration is the same. Im not sure I can explain it where most people could understand. There are two many rules and in our lives that seems to erode our patience to listen." Barry -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Thank you very much for your post...you describe it perfectly. It really is hard to describe what its like. Just the other day I went hiking with a small group of friends and walked away for a little time to myselfnot far from where they were I found this spot by the creek completely covered from above from the branches of trees. It was only about twenty yards away from them but it was so peaceful. I closed my eyes, and just sat there. There was the sound of the creek, and the wind blowing through the trees around me, the birds singing, the cool breeze, the smell of damp earth, the sun shining off of the intricate spider webs which (amazingly) didnt break in the breeze. its an incredible feeling. What I love about the woods is that once I enter the safety of it human time slows down and can even cease to exist. You will never know what true peace or quiet is until youve taken a walk in the woods, I am utterly convinced! I never realized how loud our world was. even when we think its quiet. Going to the woods is going home. -John Muir (If you aren't familiar with John Muir you should look him up... especially if you've been to Yosmite National Park).

" As a writer you should carry a water proof pad and pen so you can jot down your final thoughts. Who knows maybe it will sell high enough on eBay to pay for your burial" LOL! Nice response (touch!). But I never take the risk of writing any of my brilliant ideas down on a plane old pad of paper...Anyone could steel them! Also, though I am accident-prone I highly doubt fate would just let me die. The way things usually stand I am constantly sliding down hills, falling off rocks, getting whacked in the face with branches, falling in the creek, twisting ankles or getting so scratched up I look like I got attacked by a house cat.... I have yet to get stitches, or break a bone...mostly I am just the queen of minor yet painful injuries. Oh, and as for my will.... I don't have one, once I do die my identity will be erased from all existing files...that is, I will never have existed.... so you see no need for burial money...

"until you really hate (and I mean loath) when people have the gall to cut down trees to make paths so that they can walk unhindered through the forest with their little backpacks on...." And people have the gall to call me undiplomatic. What a way to alienate the folks who you are asking for advice. (This message has been edited by Gold Winger)" I meant no offense Gold Winger. I was simply being sarcastic and perhaps a tad overdramatic, I wasn't targeting anyone least of all the BSA...no need to get defensive. I honestly don't have problems with hiking trails or the people who walk on them. I do, however, get irritated by certain high maintenance people who think the woods should be changed to suit what they want...they are constantly for the "taming" of our woods (with portable bathrooms and coke machines every quarter of a mile!)Because "Lord forbid, nature come in contact with them!" and yet they buy their hiking boots, their backpacks (which is what i meant by 'little backpacks not sure if you've ever seen one they aren't really good for carrying much but water and a cell phone...but very stylish) and want 'real wilderness experience. I'm certainly not saying everyone is like this...but I used to be and have seen it first hand. I love national parks but I seriously LOVE the untamed wilderness, which is one of the reasons I joined this forum for advice. I know the BSA respects nature and that they truly enjoy it. Believe me, if I have a son one day he will be put in the BSA. I have nothing but respect for your organization, and sense I've been on here asking questions everyone's been more then friendly and very helpful. Please accept my apology for this misunderstanding...I'm a writer and I do tend to get carried away when I'm posting...I also tend to lean toward the abstract/romantic side of things (logic and reality are hard for me to grasp sometimes) quite a lot I tend to go to the extreme (Know anyone else who doesn't completely object to getting lost in the woods because the experience you would have and be able to write about would be priceless). Now that you know how crazy I am, I hope you realize that I meant no offense and I do most sincerely apologize.

"Leave no trace" I would define it as a warning against purposely defacing nature for the heck of it...in other words breaking small trees, kicking up things on the ground or leaving trash (we would kill anyone in our group who even thought of littering in 'our woods') I suppose you could say we do have a set of un-written un-spoke rules that we follow. When we go off trailing it's not a free for all, there is one person who chooses the way to go and everyone else follows (so that instead of making eight separate paths through the woods we make only one) we don't, as i said, handle everything we see. I suppose you could say we consider the forest sacred almost. it should be respected (even the briars) we never take anything but pictures and never leave anything but footprints and if we see something that looks like it might be a home like a beaver damn, birds nest or hornet nest (especially those hornet nests) we give them a wide berth. Does this sound ok? (This message has been edited by WildernesStudent)

If you have done it before then you will know the amazing feeling it is to go off trailingthe adrenaline of being adventurous and the awe that comes when you realize you might be the only human to have found that secret clearing with the blueberry bushes or the waterfall with the cave under it. You feel like you have a better connection and understanding with the forest around you and the more you do it the more familiar it feels until you really hate (and I mean loath) when people have the gall to cut down trees to make paths so that they can walk unhindered through the forest with their little backpacks on.... Hehe lol okmaybe I am getting a bit carried away (I had three hours of sleep last night and 7 classes todaythe fact that I only had three hours of sleep hasnt caught up with me yet but those espresso beans sure have!) Anyways, I was wondering what your suggestions would be for off trailing. I will be honest in stating that I love doing it, but am perfectly horrible at it. I was not one of those fortunate people to have been born with a good sense of direction and(to make things better) I am accident-prone. Thankfully, I have amazing friends who know both of theses things and never let me out of their sight and also who happen to excel in the areas I lack (they make maps in their head and always know where they are). But I was wondering if you were to go off trailing what things you would do or take etc Thanks again for all the tips! Makes me wish I could join some sort of crew (had the chance when I was younger but my parents, given my two faults listed above, decided it wouldnt be a good ideaI suppose I would have given any leader a couple gray hairs lol)

Wait. 1200 U.S dollars for an 80 mile hike. people actually pay money to do that!?I mean wait. sounds like fundo it all the time lol what exactly is Philmont? Hmm well at least its better then paying $ 40,000 to climb (and die) on mount EverestI wish I had been the genius to come up with that ideaI could have my school paid off by now. I actually have talked to some of the members of the outdoor club and they do, on occasion, hike some of the same trails my friends and I go on regularly but again they are experienced and so move at a faster (ok, much faster) pace then we do. I am also sure that they dont incorporate some of our favorite things to do likeexploring. The problem I have with a lot of programs is that hiking seems to be defined as getting from point A, to point B, back to point A as fast as one can (maybe this is to guarantee that everyone gets back in one piece. who knows). I like taking my time, doing some exploring, taking pictures, looking for animal tracks, trying to identify plants and trees (I usually am wrongexcept I DO know what poising ivy looks likepoison oak I am still working on unfortunately) etc. There are several beautiful places we have discovered that no one else notices because they stay on the trail and practically run by them. I like to get off the path and live a little lol. As for the environmentwe are careful not to purposely destroy anything and we never leave anything that wasnt there before, but other then that I believe the environment can take care of itself. I also think one of our biggest problems might be that that we think of these woods as our backyard, playground etc we feel completely and utterly safe in them (which is why you have people who will walk across logs that high or run of the trail at a moments notice) Do you think this is a bad thing? I know the woods cant be as safe as we think and yet at the same time I am utterly convinced nothing will ever happen in our woods (dangerously optimistic I think is a good way to describe it). I think we need to find away to get rid of this viewpoint before something tragic happens but I have no idea how. People hike in snow? I suppose it could be fun but I went on a two-mile hike with about 30 novices, *rolls eyes*. Its like the whole I know how to survive in the wilderness because Ive spent half my life sitting in my room playing Sims Survival on my play station 2! mindsetkinda scary.

same problem as the adventure crew idea...there isn't one close enough to us...and how many troops do you know who want 10 college age students taging a long on a hike lol....on the other hand it might give the scouts a chance to get their first aid badges...

At this point joining an adventure crew is not an option; there isnt one in our immediate area. Also, I usually go hiking with a group of 8-12 people so we could probably start our own crew if we really wanted too. Our school does have an outdoor club but they rarely do anything and when they do it is either expensive (try a $500 skiing trip) or to advanced (nothing like a 20 mile backpacking trip to stretch the muscles) or wellboth (wouldnt you love to spend $500 dollars so that you can kill yourself hiking 20 miles up a mountain!). I suppose what I am aiming at here is that we will find a free couple of hours call each other and go for a hike or like today we will spend four hours just aimlessly wondering around exploring. We like having our flexibility but I think we need to improve our methods I am going to list some things and maybe you could tell me which you wouldnt advice doing, things no one should be doing, and things that are okin other words would you let a group you are leading do them (and remember that the majority of us have no previous experience). Hiking with no preparation Night hiking Hiking alone Off trailing Hiking without anything Hiking with just water Hiking in flip-flops Cave searching (the purpose of which is to find one to exploreI also want to add here that we did find a cave and decided that it would be unwise to go into it. instead we went and asked the head of the outdoor club what he thought and his reply when he found out we hadnt gone into it was. Why not?Did we miss something?!) Hiking in the snow (I did it once and will never do it again without someone who knows what they are doing) Hiking in the rain/thunderstorms Wading in creeks Climbing trees Crossing logs that have fallen over creeks (some of which are 20 ft. off the ground) Impromptu rock climbing Jumping creeks Large groups splitting up and getting separated No real designated leader Andas we have yet to learn anything else no rulebook. Obviously I know some of this is just borderline stupidity, which could lead to the unfortunate event of one of us earning a Darwin award. I suppose what we really need is just to go on a hike with someone who knows what they are doing and follow their examplebut I dont know how that would be possible. anyone want to volunteer? (jk).

1). Well in relation to where the group typically meets it would almost be in the same placeour college campus and we would pick them up if they couldnt get rides. 2). These kids are very athletic they play basketball, cross country, cheerleading etcthey remind me every time I try to play with them that I just dont have that kind of energy anymore. Also I put inner city in quotes because were not talking taxes and skyscrapers. We live in a descent size town these kids live in the middle of itour campus is on the outskirts surrounded by several hundred acres of forest. 3). Well the purpose of the hike is to try something new. To introduce them to something they have been living right next to and have never had the chance to do for themselves. I would like to teach them outdoor skills unfortunatelyI have yet to learn that myself so we probably will talk a lot about team work. 4). Well, were in the foothills of the Appalachians. Our weather is finicky; I will never understand it this time of year. Just the other day it was 70 something and then yesterday it dropped in the morning and we had snow and then it went back up to the 60s. We will have to watch the weather though I highly doubt we will have snow again hiking in the rain is NOT fun. I did happen to follow one of the trails a bit today and noticed that it was harder (ok, try impossible) to cross the creek without getting wet (we will just pretend that I didnt slip and actually fall in it shhhh) where you usually would because the water had risen a good four-six inches. 5). Wellthis is going to sound very bad but as I mentioned in my other topic I am just starting to realize the dos and donts of hiking myself. We define appropriate clothing for a regular day hike as follows: jeans, a good pair of sneakers (I wear Columbia hiking ones), a t-shirt with something under it, and a light jacket. 6). Medical emergencies. I honestly havent been too concerned about this, but none of us have any medical training so maybe I should be. A broken arm, twisted ankle really doesnt bother me to muchwhat really bothers me is if someone does get hurt what all the other kids would do.as for cell phones I try not to rely on them apparently its one of the donts but I do happen to know that on this particular trail you can have full service as there is a cell tower on the very top of the mountain. Well....what do you think? Please critique/correct me.

I was going to wait a while before posting another topic but sense it might be a few days before I get back to the forum I thought I might as well go a head and see what you think. To make it short I and two others work under a school organization that spends time with inner city kids we meet with them about once-twice a week as a group and play games with them but we are also supposed to do other things with them as well. The other two leaders in my group and I decided that we wanted to take ours hikingin theory it sounds like a good ideaand then I started thinking about it in reality. Here is the scenario: Six middle school aged children who have never gone hiking before in their lives Three leaders who have hiked several times before but have no leadership experience A moderate but five mile hike (roundtrip) Or A fairly difficult two-mile hike. In all honestly I have no trouble leading a group on either one of these hikes (I could do it myself blindfolded) but what I worry about here is lack of experience with a group this age. I have never had the talent for being able to predict the unpredictable and plan accordingly. We havent taken any group dynamics disaster prevention/ preparation classes and it just seems a lot more complicated then getting medical release forms, buying a first aid kit and telling them to bring water. The other leaders seem to think I am over reacting and tell me not to worry about it and to some degree I hope I am over reacting which is why I wanted your opinion. You all lead hikes and/or go on them, what do you think?

Well let me start of by introducing myself. First of all I am not really into scouting though I have known a few scouts. I never was much for outdoor activities until about two years ago and now it takes a great amount of effort for me to keep myself inside and get things done. I guess you could say I joined this forum as a desperate last resort to a big problem Ive discovered and because of my faith in the BSA, which will always have my full support. My problem as I stated in the topic of the forum is resource overload. When my friends and I started going hiking and such we didnt really know about the dos and donts of the backwoodshow could we know? Were average American twenty year olds who have grown up watching movies like Without a Paddle, Wild America and tv shows like Man vs. the wild, Lost and fear factor lol for all we knew the reason people went hiking was because of the riskthe thrill and perhaps the chance to get lost and then (of course...like the movies) get rescued within a couple hours of making a cell phone call and be back in time to finish our homework with an amazing story to tell our envious friends. We have learned a lot through trial and errorit is amazing how often our definition of adventure and the common definition for stupidity often intertwined. The problem we came to was that when we started becoming aware of the fact that there were Dos and Donts to our little excursions we tried finding the right way to do things and found hundreds of self-proclaimed experts and very few who actually agreed with each other. We didnt know what to do, how can we tell who is right and who is wrong? Trial and error? Well thats what we had been doing. Its easy to go into a store and pick up some sort of book on hiking (there sure are many many many) but you dont give someone a copy of Greys Anatomy and expect them to do open heart surgery either. wouldnt it be nice if they had at least some basic knowledge. Well, yesso where do you get it? Our problem hasnt been that there arent resources, are problem is that there are way way to many and most of them assume the person reading has a basic knowledge and so they skip right to the first incision before explaining the surgery prep. Its no wonder why there are so many people who have had bad accidents, many fatal, on what you might call a simple day hike it is a lot easier forgetting all of the sources and all of the experts instead of trying to wade through each one and determine which is right when you have no previous experience to help you. Right now we have gone back to our winging it stagewe have gradually done some improving, but my fear is that we have become so used to doing things our way for so long we will always be falling back into it even if we were do learn the dos and donts.I will be the first to admit how easy it is to forget or ignore something you have not put in practice. So, my opinion is that we need to talk to people who actually have experience, know what theyre talking about and can give us answersnaturally the first group I thought of was the BSA. I have often held the opinion that the BSA holds a wealth of knowledge and could greatly benifit the public by sharing some of it. So here I am askingwould you mind giving me some tips, answering questions and such? Oh...yeah... I will add that what I am looking for is kind friendly advice not to be hit over the head with a rulebook all at once lol. That has happened to us before with bad results we went into a stage of shock followed by the Oh no! Are we doing it right!! panic stage which quickly led to the apathetic who really cares stage. Thanks, sry it got kinda long!