WDL Mom

Hi, Please, keep it short and upbeat. Include what you love about scouting. We went through the FOS from you know where last year. Presenter wouldn't "allow" the B and G to continue until all the forms were filled out and returned. It took 15 minutes. And no, we didn't reach the FOS goal for our unit. The kicker, is that he is a parent in our own unit! A question I have always had, and I am sure that some of my parents would have concerns popcorn. The council receives part of the profit of our popcorn sale, correct? This year we were in excess of 25k and had over 90% participation. Is this subtracted from the stated $135 needed to support each scout?? If not, why not? It could be that I have this all backwards... please correct me if I am mistaken! It just seems that we finish busting our tails on the popcorn sale/delivery and then Council is asking for more money... I love scouting and think FOS is worthwhile, but, it left a sour taste in my mouth last year. Kind of dreading it this year.... we have the same presenter:) Good luck!

Hi, If I remember right... 2 years ago our FOS goal was $1200. Last year our FOS goal was $2200. Our pack actually contributed $1250 last year, with only 17% of the Pack participating. The presentation requested $130 per scout... I think this year it is $135. Again, I think our parents feel that they did their fundraiser for the year with the popcorn sale... we had 90% participation for the sale. Maybe I just have a sour taste in my mouth regarding FOS. Last year's presentation was a bit heavy handed and dragged on and on and on. It was done by a parent in our Pack who is also involved at the Council level. So, again, do the popcorn sales and FOS combine to reach that magical $130 per scout number? Or is FOS calculated AFTER popcorn sales are taken into account? Thanks for the explanations!

Hi All, This may be a dumb question, but, here goes... Council is supported by popcorn sales and FOS contributions, right? So, does the amount of popcorn affect your FOS goal? Or are they calculated separately? We sell a ton of popcorn, last two year over 25K. Our FOS was doubled! After the kids and parents work so hard on selling popcorn to support scouting it seems like such a huge slap in the face to get hit up again for FOS. Is this right, or am I more confused than normal?

Thanks for the suggestions! It is our Council camp, so I know it is on the "approved" list. The camp director retired last month and the Council is in process of hiring a new director, so I may need to do some calling around to get the answers to some of the facility questions. As far as the stoves go, I was assuming that we would be cooking outside. My Dad that owns the stoves is planning on attending as well. Some of the cabins have wood stoves for heat and one near the dining hall has propane heat. Ok, dumb question here... when washing up where does the dish water go in the winter?? I know the latrine is a no-no and that during milder weather you can dig a small pit... You guys are great... thanks!

Hi All, I am taking my Web. I den cabin camping at the end of January. We are thinking of rolling into camp Saturday morning, sledding, cross country skiing, building forts and snow forts of course. We would stay overnight in the cabin and head out Sunday morning. As I start planning this, I have a bunch of questions, and I need your input! Meals: What type of meals work best in a setting like this? One of my Dads has a couple of camping stoves that we will be using. Restroom facilities: All of the cabins have a latrine located nearby. One cabin is located near the dining hall that has an indoor facility. Are Web. required to have indoor plumbing available?? Water: Do you need to bring in your own?? I am wondering if the outdoor water lines freeze up... Activities: What type of indoor activities do you do at night? Please share any additional items that I need to consider as well. What has worked well for you in the past? Thanks for all your help. Now all I need is to make sure we have snow....

Hi, Our Troop is in transition between SM's and there is no FCFY program currently in place. Also, all the patrols in the troop are same age groupings. If I had the magic wand, that would be two things that I would change. I agree that sometimes kids knowing each other too well going into a troop can be a problem... I think I will have a few more questions to ask prospective troops the second time around... * How are the NSP integrated into existing patrols? * Explain how your FCFY program works. * How do you use Troop Guides/ASM with the NSP? Wish I had known all this about a year ago. Thanks for your suggestions and comments. Last question... would you send a reflective email regarding why first son left the troop to the new SM? Or just let it go. I am not angry with the troop, but, I think this area needs some work. I appreciate your thoughts.

Hi, Not sure if this is by the book, but here goes. We try to do the "required" Webelos pins in the den, with each taking about a month to complete. Scouts are encouraged to work on pins of interest at home and report back to the den on things that they complete at home. "Crafts" are more involved projects that can be used as part of the Craftsman pin or the Artist pin. We still play games, some of the games involve scout skills or memory games to learn the oath and law etc. As far as using the monthly theme... we don't use it in the Webelos dens, though we will use it at Pack meetings. We do skits and flag ceremonies at the Pack meeting as well. I am leaning towards having the boys as a den select the pin that they would like to work on and help plan some of the simpler activities. Perhaps even lead a portion of the pin for their den mates. I will let you know how it goes!

Hi All, Thanks for your comments. I support my son's decision to drop Scouts, I think it is probably best for him. My question is more general in nature... Brent began to address it in his response. How do your troops make sure that the kids are engaged and accepted in the Troop? My son isn't the only kids that this happens to... There are other kids that are on the fringe of the troop, if you will. What about the kid that no one wants to tent with? The kid that others ignore? What do you do with kids that aren't included by the others? What can I do as a Webelos leader to help my kids "connect and include" their den mates and continue this once they bridge to a Troop? Things I am currently attempting: * selecting den emblem, designing flag, den yell etc. * Webelos campouts - tent with friends if desired. * continue to use denners, with small responsibilities. * asking for another den chief from the troop * turning over decision making to the boys gradually with small items. * attempting to find some group building activities/games to teach teaming without beating them over the head. Other suggestions? What do you use in your patrols? Thanks.

The troop is in a period of transition from one SM to another. Some things were overlooked for lack of a better term. Not much attention was given to the new scout patrol. My son crossed over with his entire Web.II den. They all know each other. Plus the prior year, the entire Web. den crossed to this troop. Many of the adult troop leaders were leaders in the Pack as well. I went with my son and he had a SM conference to explain why he was leaving the troop. (Mom made him... mean Mom...) He used the reason that sports took too much time and he couldn't fit scouts in. Which is true, sports do take time and it is difficult to get to scouts. However, I have bent over backwards to get him to scouts ... so it wasn't an impossible issue. Part of me thinks that it might be better to have a mix of boys from all different dens coming into a patrol... Kind of like 5 elementaries feeding one junior high. I plan on taking my Web.I's to visit 3 different troops, so that they can choose what works for them. But, I can see it already... my younger son will go to the troop that his friends go to. Has anyone done anything in there patrols or dens to build group identity? Build friendships, get everyone involved? Or does it just happen or not happen as in my son's case?

Hi All, My oldest son, age 11 dropped out of Scouts last week. I have been expecting it to be honest. His actions spoke volumes... can't find his uniform, doesn't know where his book is, forgot to work on any advancements, too tired to go to troop meetings, etc. Only thing that got him excited about scouting was being a den chief. Which gave me some hope that he might stick it out. He loves sports, plays on a traveling baseball and basketball team. Always ready to go to practice, knows where his gear is, always excited to be there. Were there issues on the troop's side... sure. If I could wave a magic wand and change some things in the troop, it might have helped some. But I am not interested in bashing the troop. As I think about his experience, one thing stands out as being missing... he had no friends in the troop. I know missing due to sports will make it more difficult to develop friendships. The 7 guys in his patrol went through cub scouts together and got along well as cubs. Once into Boy Scouts, my son became the odd man out... no one to tent with, bike with etc... As I look at my Webelos I den and my younger son, I wonder how do we as adult leaders prevent this from happening? As a den leader I can run the activities so that all the boys are included, so that they all experience small successes. Is it somewhat contrived? Sure. It seems that once they are in Boy Scouts, that "power" is gone. I can't make them play nice, or be friends... Any thoughts? I would like to see my second son have a better experience. Thanks.

Thanks Lisabob, I have seen the uniform diagram.... Not sure why I got it in my head that it was only the tan shirt... Maybe I got it from the oval Webelos badge going with the tan shirt. Thanks for the help.

Hi All, Question came up at our Pack meeting last night. I know that Webelos dens can choose a Boy Scout patrol emblem to use instead of their den numeral. The question was this... Are all the boys in the den required to have achieved their Webelos badge BEFORE the den can adopt a den emblem? I didn't think that was a requirement, but, I am unable to find any info in the Webelos Book. Another leader thinks that he heard at Webelos training that all must complete the badge first... Second question: My Webelos den has mixed shirt colors, according to the boys/parents preference. If the boys pick a den emblem it is only SUPPOSED to be worn on the tan shirt. Would you allow it to be worn on the blue? My thoughts are that the den emblem will help the boys learn about being in a patrol, and that is more important than the incorrect uniforming issue. Not to mention that the emblems are basically covered up by the Webelos colors anyway.... Does that make me a Uniform Practicalist??? (Not sure that is even a word!) Have a wonderful Thanksgiving.

Here is one that is a take off of the old Red Light, Green light. All the boys line up at one end of the room. One person is it, and he is located on the other end of the room with his back to the group. Adult calls "fingers up". Each boy in the group puts up a number from 1 - 5. Then the Adult calls "shoot". The boy that is it puts up his number. Any boy that matches him is frozen and can't move. If you did NOT match then you move forward the number of steps that you put up. Gets really interesting if you have 2 or 3 boys be it at the same time....

Calico, Thanks for the info on the cords. I see the "appointment" process more along the lines of your second scenario... I did run it by our Cubmaster. He would prefer to see the den chiefs with either the Wolves or Tigers. His thought was that there are only about 4 months until the Web.II's bridge and our Wolf den is big. Which led me to another question... Is there a "time" requirement for den chief for it to "count" as POR in the troop? Also, how is this POR evaluated by the Scoutmaster? I am really excited by this program, and I see it providing some real leadership opportunities for the Boy Scouts that are involved. Not to mention the younger guys eating up the attention. Some of the details seem fuzzy, or is it just me? Thanks for all your help.

Thanks for the comments. One last question, maybe... I seem to be getting a lot of the Den Chief questions because I have a son in the Troop and also a younger boy in the Pack and I am a den leader for the Pack as well. Anyway, one boy is pretty adamant that he would like to den chief for the Web. II's. There is only a one year difference. The Web. II's are a pretty rough bunch and the den chief is fairly quiet. My opinion is that it isn't a good match, and I told Mom that as well. Am I correct that the Pack decides the assignment, provided that the den leader is willing to take on the den chief? Is that the Committee or the CM? Of course the SM would need to approve as well... I feel a little caught in the middle...

Hi, No den dues, no pack dues. We sell a lot of popcorn... Last year, I think we were over $23,000... Not sure, but, I think we are comparable this year. Pack pays for den supplies within reason. If it is a big project, that has some cost, the boys might be asked to chip in. Field trip costs are paid by the boys. All advancements, books, and neckerchiefs, Derby Kits, Space Derby etc. are purchased by the Pack. Seems to work out. Our Pack is around 68 boys right now.

Thanks for the replies. Calico, I love the ideas! I do have a question. In my son's troop, there are 2 other boys that trained to be den chiefs along with my son. They are interested in working with our Pack as well. Is it better to have one den chief per den, or is it better to pair them up? If you pair them up, is there enough opportunity to "lead"? Both of these boys are pretty quiet. One of the parents was interested in pairing their son up with my son as den chiefs for my den. Because they "know" me, and they don't know the other den leaders in our Pack. My son is anything but quiet. If one of the guys pairs up with my son, he might not get a word in edgewise... Any thoughts would be appreciated. Thanks.

Hi All, Eleven year old son had his first meeting as den chief with his Webelos I den. He was amazing! I think it was a glimpse of what the young man will be like in a few years. He ran 2 games and helped with a role play. Did it as well or better than I could have, and the kids in the den loved it. Even though he wanted to do this, I had my doubts. Too young to be den chief. Too immature. Too close in age to the Webs. Too unorganized. Too mouthy. I love being wrong.

I would agree that the wedge shape has done better over the years in our Pack. Weight placement and lubing the wheels is also critical. I however, seem to enjoy the show aspect more than the speed... Last year I entered a Racing Laundry Basket (It was very slow!) Filled it with Barbie clothes... when it hit the finish the clothes flew all over the track! It was great. The boys took great pleasure in beating the Laundry Car! This year I am thinking along the lines of the old Chia pets... remember the pottery that grows??? A chia car.... May have to mow before the race!

I understand! My 11 year old is the SAME way! He may be 18 before he reaches Tenderfoot. Enjoys scouts, likes the activities, no follow through on any advancements. He has all the activities completed for a couple of merit badges, but won't finish up. AARGGH. I remind, but I try so hard not to get on his case about it. I will be sure that he attends the next Court of Honor, maybe seeing his friends advance will kick him into gear. It drives me nuts

Scoutnut, I like the idea of giving them a Pack patch rather than the Council Patch. I don't want to "force" the issue with the Council, but, I don't want the kids disappointed either... it wasn't their mistake. Do any Councils have cold weather awards for both the cub and Boy Scout level with different requirements appropriate for each? Or am I getting back into the Cubs don't cold weather camp thread?? Thanks for the responses.

Hi, In our Council, there is a Polar Bear Patch available to Webelos and Boy Scouts that camp in weather below freezing and cook 3 meals during the time period. At our recent Council Cub Scout Family Campout which included Tigers through Webelos, the temperature dropped to 27 degrees during the night with a whole bunch of rain and wind. The individual running the event informed all present that the boys had "earned" their Polar Bear patch and that it could be purchased at the Council store. Of course the ladies in the Council Store relayed the information regarding the actual requirements. (Webelos and Boy Scouts only and the meal requirement. We ate all meals in the dining hall.) I plan on contacting our DE for clarification, but, typically his response is along the lines of ... do whatever you think is best. Would you give the kids the patch even though they didn't fulfill the requirements? I don't look forward to telling the little guys they didn't qualify.... Personally I want the River Otter Patch because of the water that came through the tent. My boys (10 & 11) pitched the tent and forgot the ground cloth... luckily the sleeping pads kept us fairly dry. Thanks for you help and opinions.

Hi, A couple of suggestions: 1. This is a process and as you already know it is going to take some time. However the boy should be doing the work not us! 2. I would suggest NOT striking while the iron is hot... sometimes deferring consequences actually works better. Mention to your scout in an off hand way non-confrontational way, Tom I heard that we had a repeat of some poor behaviors after the election... I know that we have talked about behavior in the past. I will have to do something, but, I am not sure what. Don't worry about it now, I will get back to you when I decide. Of course the scout is going to worry and actually think about what happened and what the consequence might be. I have used this on kids and after a couple of days they are actually begging to get their consequence! Especially if you see them everyday...Plus, it gives you some time to talk to the parents, your SPL, ASM's and come up with some choices. 3. I would sit down with the scout and explain the unacceptable behavior... again. Then I would try to put the problem back in his lap. How are you going to solve this problem? No ideas of what you could do? Would you like to hear what other kids have tried in the past? Then give him a list of possible solutions, probably no more than 3 or 4. Be sure that you are ok with any of the proposed solutions. 4. Scout chooses a solution. Your response is "GREAT" hope that works out well for you! It is optional, but, you could also have him decide on the consequence if the proposed solution doesn't work. This can work, especially if you have a relationship with the kid. Kids want control, and if they don't feel that they have any they will attempt to take it on their terms. Make him own the problem, give him choices and show him that you have confidence that he can solve his own problem. If at any time his behavior becomes abusive to others (behavior escalates) then I would intervene directly and remove him from the other scouts. A lot of this is from an Love and Logic by Jim Fay, he has some books out on teaching and parenting. Good Luck.

Hi, I appreciate your thoughtful responses. I humbly believe that I am best working with kids. It is what I do... teach. (Jr. High, they should be rolling into class here in a few minutes...) The offers are nice, and yes, ego boosting to a certain extent. I think I will probably pass at this point. Focus on my den, and finding a niche in the troop when my youngest bridges over. Our Pack is pretty strong right now. 70+ boys with all dens staffed and trained. Our upcoming issue is turnover. In the next 18 months we will "lose" the Web. I and II den leaders, the Committee Chair and a couple of key volunteers. We as a Pack need to start training the replacements now or our poor Cubmaster will be struggling for awhile! Thus the interest in being a Pack trainer, so that I could help the new den leaders and be a resource without being a "major" player in the Pack. Anyone try the Pack Trainer route? How did it go? What was the time committment like? Probably whatever you make of it I suppose... Gotta run Thanks.

Hi All, How many hats do you wear in this game we call scouting? How and when or do you ever say "no"? Currently I am committed to being my younger son's WDL for the next 18 months. Also serve as Committe Member for older son's troop. I am working on ASM training, so that when my younger boy bridges, I can help out on the program side of things with the Troop. I see a lack of leadership in our Pack as current leaders move up with their boys. I have contemplated being a Pack trainer to try and help the Pack after I move on. (Though the training for this appears to be sparse to nonexistent.) Recently was approached about being a UC. Also have been asked to join District training staff... How much is too much? Part of me just wants to watch my boys grow up and become good men... My spouse shakes his head, and says I am nuts to consider doing anything additional.