Bob58

Any chance that you're interested in a Cub Day Camp or Resident Camp position? Even if found someone w/ access to the book you might have a hard time getting your hands on one. I rec'd mine at National Camp School for reference use as Program director for Cub Day Camp. And while the text might not be a restricted publication.... "This manual is for the adults who will teach the shooting sports skills of archery and BB shooting to Tiger Cubs.... Archery and BB gun shooting are restreicted to Day Caps / Webelos Scout resident camps, Council magaged family camping programs, or to council activities where there are properly trained supervisors and all standards for BSA shooting sports are enforced. Archery and BB gun shooting are not to be done at the pack level." 13-550 p.1. If you are interested in introducing your boys to shooting sports you will need to get your council or district to offer a day camp or other special event that will involve the desired sport. ( I maintain my certification and work at each of our district Cub events, but we have anbother gent who is our District Cub shooting sports specialiast. I am not the shooting sports director for day camp -- Mike takes care f that. By the way our Day Camp visitation team (inspectors) would not look kindly upon anyone trying to meet those two particular positions.) There is some information online but I'm afraid that it was on USSSP. Bob(This message has been edited by Bob58)

Hi, Just a coupla observations. new-cb-mom, You haven't indicated whether the units laid back attitude or ndifference is found "around the water cooler" or in Pack Committee / Pack leaders meetinsg.... Does you pack have such eetings? Is there an advancement chair? Perhaps you could offer to pick up the awards for your den or even the whole pack. It sounds as if the DL & CM are not tuned into that at all if you haven't rec'd Bobcats by the end of January. Our patches often go out at a den meeting w'in 3 weeks of the boys joining and he receives his card at the next Pack meeting. I think that the key here migbt be making advancement imporant in your den -- perhaps the DL will come around if he sees that it can be a regular thing. Afterall the bead thingies (totem's") are called Instant Recognition Kits If you are responsible for 1 or 2 den meetings amonth I'm guessing that your Pack is doing the basic 3 den meeti gs & 1 pack meeting a month. Is the Pack meeting anything like what is presented in the Program Helps (from Book or Scouting Magazine.) While I think leaving might be too easy, amuch better person than I once told his friends to "shake the dust from their feet" if they weren't welcomed in particular place. Please don't let the grown-ups ruin this, read recently that one should not say anything that will not improve the situation -- tough but probably true. Leave if you must but please make sure that you, your son and his friends enjoy scouting -- its one of the most wonderful gifts a parent can give their child! Bob

Hi, Some thoughts.... Do you have trained ASMs (Assistant Scout Masters)? Who attends Roundtable for your unit? If there is no Un it Commissioner perhaps the District Executive, DE, District Commissioner or Roundtable Commissioner could bring up the "Troop Committee Challenge." Its a training / team building exeercise that might not have been around 15 yrs ago & certainly hasn't been used in your troop recently. Has anyone one on the Committee beeen trained? There is even an orientation for IHs, Institutional Heads, the head of the Chartered organization, and the COR Charter Organization Rep. I'm with Eamon on putting the Commissioner(s) into the loop. Their marching orders are to visit units and provide guidance / counsel -- they might not have THE answer to your specific problem / question but they should be able to offer reflective listening. Experienced Scouters like your SM could possibly do more for Scouting by becoming a Commissioner (Now might not be the time to suggest that -- we don't have enough in our District so they tend to appear when trouble arises.) Bob

Hey Unc, I heard that one years ago as a Harvard - Yale joke -- I've been walking out of rest rooms w/out washing my jands for thirty years hoping that someone would stop me so that I could use the line.(Just kidding) Does anyone want to spin off Dish Washing in camp? As I recall failure to rinse well can lead to frequest "trots" to the latrine due to soap residue. Proabably the wrong place to say, "Gee, I love this scouting stuff!" Bob

Gotta have balloon sized dinosaur eggs. Paper mache made in advance or 2 day project... drying time for paper mache & paint. Be careful w/ your color selection. We invited a loacl museum to talk to the boys about fossils & then had them make them out of plaster. One of the curators came out for free-- are there any middle school / high school science teachers you can tap? Colleges or universitites aren't out of the question either. The footprints are a great idea -- especially if you have a naturally muddy area. We were able to cut out several pair that adult wore strpped to the bottom of their shoes after camp was over for the day or before the scouts arrived in the a.m. Yup, someone got caught wearing 'em once. Flintstones are okay but, its an opportunity to talk about the fact that we never roamed the earth at the same time... could be touchy in religiously fundamentalist areas. Make It Fun (but don't feel obliged to Keep It Simple - the sky is the limit for Day Camp!) Bob

Hi, just pulling up a chair before fixing dinner. Actually this is a perfect opportunity to get a Unit Commissioner involved. Put "leadership" on the agenda for the pack Committee meeting or the Pack's monthly / bi-monthly planning meeting & ask the commissioner to make a guest appearance. I won't hijack this thread & will try to post later, but Commissioners should visit every unit at least once a month. That visit should be a regular pack (weekly all dens) meeting, an activity (pinewood, blue gold, etc) or a committee meeting. (Roundtable, phone & e-mail contact are great support, but don't replace face time.) A well trained, experienced Commissioner is like a trusted advisor or counselor, don't be afraid to ask the questions. Bob(This message has been edited by Bob58)

Congratulations on taking a big step in bringing aScout's Duty to God to a new level of visibility. Plan your work & work your plan; and remember the audience. Its okay to enjoy a religious retreat; and you never get a second chance to make a first impression. Enough platitudes. I'm sure that everyone here will keep you in our prayers as your group prepares to offer one of Scoutings gifts to the young people of your area. Bob

Thanks, I'll check in the a.m. unless someone confirms it before I turn in tonight. Bob

Hi, I'm looking for a hand cranked rope making machine that could be clamped or bolted to a table to make 3 strand rope. I've turned up 2 very simple tools (one from troop 28 and an out of print book that features the 3 or 4 strand machine I'm looking for. (I think that the book is called "making rope with a hand operated machine" -- neat title huh?) Though "out of print" a copy may be available from "leahman's kitchen" but I'm under the gun time wise. Any help would be appreciated..... Thanks, Bob

I googled up the following... http://teacher.scholastic.com/researchtools/articlearchives/civics/presid/focus/prchford.htm Question: How did you feel when you received offers to play professional football and why did you turn down the offers? -- Mrs. Hargrove's 6th Grade, Canby Lane School, Decatur, GA. President Ford: Quite frankly, I was overwhelmed to receive two offers to play professional football from the Detroit Lions and the Greenbay Packers. I was tempted because it was during the Depression when there weren't very many jobs available for a college graduate. The nation was faced with 25% unemployment. Fortunately, I was offered a job as Assistant Football Coach at Yale University for a salary of $2,400 a year. I thought this was a better opportunity, though less money, than playing Pro football, because I would also have the opportunity to attend Yale University Law School. As I look back, I made the right decision, although on occasion it would have been nice to have played one year in the NFL. I think this illustrates that you have to make tough choices. I'm glad that it worked out the way it did.

Suffolk County Council, BSA ... Eagle Scout, retired NY Giant Football player, and CBS Football Broadcaster Beasley Reese engages in conversation with Yogi Berra, huge supporter of scouting ... www.sccbsa.org/Yogi.html - 3k - Supplemental Result - Cached - Similar pages

Kevin Greene, Carolina Panthers, LB... From Scouting Magazine: Football stars support Scouting At the Del-Mar-Va Council's Sports Spectacular last June, Eagle Scout Aubria R. S. Black, Troop 47, Wilmington, Del., posed with (from left) Indianapolis Colts receiver Marvin Harrison and retired NFL stars Tony Dorsett, Franco Harris, and Kevin Greene. At the eventwhich raised more than $40,000 for ScoutingGreene, a former Carolina Panthers linebacker and an Eagle Scout, urged Scouts to continue to be involvedthat it's possible to be active in Scouting and also pursue athletic interests.

Thanks Shemgren et al, An update.... Our latest Eagle candidtae is on track to work during the next two weeks. (His high School broke for Christmas last Friday.) I've checked w/ council and the leave it up to the Districts. The registrar noted that every project should be logged in at the Council HQ before being picked up by the District rep. In fact two of our Districts have almost instant turnaround since one of several members of their Eagle BoR's is in each week. They review the proposals at the counter & often sign off immediately, although I am assured that no project is rubber stamped and these districts do occasionally suggest that Eagle Candidates revise parts of their projects. In our case a new Eagle BOR Chairman is asking that at least two other members of the board review the proposal becausae he is concerned that he will miss somethimg tht will be wquestioned by nat'l. (You might recall that 3 members of the BoR reviewed this particvu;ar project the evening that it was given to the Chair.) I cannot take on another job for the district but I'd like to see an Eagle BoR secretary who would shepherd each project through review & approval w/in a few weeks at most. Bob

I'm reminded of a teacher's remonstration that every individual has at least three vocsablaries. 1. The words we use every day. 2. The words & language that we use when writing, especially schoolwork or letters of thanks or introduction. (You remember writing letters don't you?, Complete with Inside addresses, Salutations, Bodies, Closings & Signatures) And 3. the specialzed language, jargon, that is associted with jobs, hobbies etc. A lot of each type of language flies around this forum. (I often slip from one to another... sometimes on purpose.) While I think that its important that we always respect each other, in our rush we sometimes miss some of the wordpaly that I imagine an educated person might enjoy. I can imagine a smile creeping over Lord BP's face should he hear of Totin' Chips & Firem'n Chits in the same sentence. A "chit" is a small piece of paper, a ticket, that entitles one to something. (The ticket at the laundry or the coat check, the parking stub at the pay parking lot.) A "chip" is, of course, a small piece of wood -- a castoff from carving, chopping or cutting. Now let the imagination kick in... can you see the young scout watching anxiously as his patrol leader, maybe his brother or a grandfatherly "troop elder" type picking up a nice clean "chip", an inch or 2 by 2 or 3 inches, from the clean, aromatic fresh shavings at his feet. Slowly carefully carves the lad's name adding his own initials and the date he recognizes a young lads spectacular mastery of knife ax & saw skills. Perhaps B-P would have rubbed a bit of ash into them to make it easier to read. Just enjoying the wordplay. Bob

Hi, It sounds as if the Cub camping program is alive & well in you area. If I'm not mistaken Cub Scout Winter camping restrictions are set by council or region and apply to Tent Camping. You can still visit a council camp, stay in a bunk house or cabin and enjoy winter activities in a different setting. I was very interested in a comment in another thread that related how much less work was involved in being a scoutmaster instead of a den leader. Perhaps the Pack leadership needs to be shaken up a little, where are the COR or IH in this picture -- its their unit not the Comm Chair's or Cubmaster's. Perhaps, there is a Cubmaster's hat in your future with one of your den's parents becoming DL while you assist (strongly.) Bob

G'day, By way of observation I would give the awards out asap, next Pack meeting. And while I'm not sure exactly what I would say I would address this at the next Cub CoH. Blue /Gold, Scout Sunday , whenever. Explain that in the future the boys will be receiving Immediate Recognition whenever reqs are met, and while some awards will require a trip to the Scout Shop they will also be presented by or at the next Pack meeting. Our unit holds the mothers pins / cards until quarterly COH's so that all boys have a chance to rec. with their parents present. When I came into the pack I was told that while its nice to be recognized, it might be hard if a young man never has a parent there to see him step up... I really do write out my comments on things like this because I want to be sure that I will say what I mean.... With the text before me I don't hesitate to review what I've just said before I give bad info off the cuff (in response to a parents question for example.) Just some thoughts. Bob

Proud Eagle, the names of locally prepared training programs vary by Council, District (and Region, I suppose.) For this reason I would encourage you to raise the question with your local Council Commissioner or Training Chair. I say this because our local "University of Scouting" is really more of a "College of Commissioner Service" with a few other courses thrown in. While it does offer a few short courses, it has never offered a comprehensive daylong training for district or council volunteers. I did not go over the "Baden Powell University" site that was recently mentioned here in the forums closely because there's no way I could get there. It might offer some insights or opportunities for that part of the countyy. I'm sure that National has produced training materials for each of the positions at the Council level. I've never been copied on an announcemnet of their presentation except for the few breakouts offered at our "University." I would be disappointed if there was not some type of Council Team building seminar. Bob

Okay, here's the genesis.... I regularly see the head of the Eagle BoR at roundtable and hand delivered a scouts Eagle Leadership Project packet (only project details and before photos as requested by our Eagle BoR chair) signed off by the IH, Scoutmaster & Troop Adv. Chairman to him at Roundtble 3 weeks ago. In the "Details" he included his timetable that called for executing the project over the Christmas holidays.

Not to hi-jack but... just a reminder that it is illegal to operate a cell phone while driving in some statesor even smalller jurisdictions. The laws vary widely from "no-hands" to "no use by anyone under 21 yrs. of age" to "no use ." And remember as SR540Beaver pointed out ignorance of the law is no excuse... and police officers can be effective educators. Bob

I've just scanned the recent threads on Eagle's & Eagle Projects but didn't find anything dead on.... A comment on length of time for approval came close but... (1) How long should it take to get a project approved? (2) Sould the review / approval be more than an evaluation of feasibilty & approiateness of prject or (3) What changes ("suggestions" or "recommendations") should the "District Eagle Board of Review" be making since the candidate is responsible for planning & implementing the project? Feel free to respond re both the real world & the alternate universe we call the "perfect world", but please distinguishe between the two. I'll throw my experience out there in a bit if anyone else has anything to share. Bob

Gung-Ho, that reminds me of a piece that Doug referenced. The one that comedian Red Skelton used to do. A few thoughts, some may have already been tossed out. ...start by always including tghe Pledge in Pack mtng or Court Of Honor openings. ...if the dens meet in the same location try a joint opening ceremony. Let the the boys (Bears?) who need to conduct a ceremnony for advancement plan it. They will love it. Perhaps the Tigers will begin asking why they don't say it at den meetings. If the leaders are actually avoiding the Pledge think before taking action; actually plan how you will approach this. Consider having your COR (Charter Organization Representative) visit a committee meeting & addressing the value that they place on active citizenship. I'm thinking that this might be rather subtle. If that doesn't move them in the right direction, put it on the agenda of your nect committee meeting, make a motion to open each/every meeting w/ the Pledge, a prayer & cermony leader's choice of Scout items. Once its been voted on & written into the committees minutes the den leaders might realize how important it is to your unit. This is exactly where the rubber hits the road in the relationship between BSA & the chartered partners. The agreement is to foster the aims of both to the detriment of neither. As noted its not required but if citizenship is one of the three Aims of Scouting leaders owe parents the whole program. While leaders might be hard to come by remember that the Chartering Organization signs off on the Adult Application. That implies endorsement or approval of those individuals as leaders. If they don't meet the sponsoring organizations standards, recruit new leaders. The fact that they are leaders does not mean that they must be leaders next year. (or even next month!) Recruit & train your leaders. Whenever poissible form search / selection committees & examine the needs. Then approach the person best suited for the job. I've had to steer volunteers into areas where they can serve but do little damage (on both the unit & district level.) You have no obligation to allow a volunteer to undermine the program.

As a Catholic Scouter I don't have a dog in this fight, but I appreciate BW's observations and advice. Packsaddle, Which pamphlet are you looking at? (I can't imagine BSA providing material for an emblem program that they don't recognize.) Contact the relationships division in Irving and get the straight scoop. I wouldn't even trust the local council. (Sorry I don't have an e-mail or 800 phone #-- if I find one I'll post it.) I'm also puzzled by the thought that a current scouter w/c/should wear a knot to represent their participation in an emblem program that was not recognized by BSA. In particular I wouldn't encourage anyone to wear the Religious emblems knot beacuse BSA doesn't recognize a particular denominations program.

Sorry for the typos Plam should be Palms and inacty becomes inactivity. Scouter Paul did you cut & paste? A question, okay two... Is this in a section referring to Webelos/Arrow of Light recipients or Boy Scout reg. in general? If Arrow of Light then the "they" in the last sentence could make sense. Is it really "my"? (My quotes in the following section,) I would be disappointed if that got by our council's secretary. "In May of 2004, the National Executive Board made the following change: To comply with the 2004 National Bylaw changes, boys younger than 10 years old "my" NOT be registered in the Boy Scout program. But, if they are 10 years old they may join a Troop." Webelos to Scout Transition , Bob

This question is akin to what is a boy scout to do once he has earned the eagle. Granted there isn't a Plam system for cubs but... Has the young man earned all of the belt loops, pins and activity badges? Unfortunately the # one thing this scout can do might be to serve as a warning to his leaders. Even if he was eager & competent his adult leaders should have worked to avoid the potential let down that will accompany a period of inacty / lack of advancement or recognition. Bob

Our unit only meets once each month during June, July & August but we have several service projects & camp in June & July. August has a meeting, a planning session for the new year and our Summer COH; and the COH itself. Active is as active does! - not Forrest Gumph