Bob58

I'm disappointed at the few hits this thread has taken... I really hope it picks up because I think that square knots can be a great way of motivating the scouts. Adults don't undertake the same type of advancement that the youth do but I get tired of hearing that "Its just for the boys." The Boys know if we're trying to stay up to speed, they certainly notice when someone announces that a leader has taken the time to go for training or has been presented with some honor. We might not crave or "bits of color" as one of my over active / under trained committee members calls them, but our example is not lost on the boys. Laura, its great that you've thought to recognize someone who sounds like a great scout & scouter. Bob

Hey DS, I love the quote from the Mission Statement is it part of the current charter? I noticed your revference to its similarity to the original. I've already cut & pasted and would like to acknowledge it accurately. Bob

Search the forums for Song of the south or re:Follow Me boys. Last post was 12/20/02. I can confirm that people were displeased w/ the quality of this particular source. At one point e-bay had copies that were described as "high quality taped directly from cable" -- now everyone should know you can't sell those; even if the cable companies will tell you how to copy for your personal use!

Please wrap yourself well and mail to... any one of a dozen units that I can think of! I'm usually the last one to reach for a rule book so its easy for me to say "You've Got To Do what makes you happy & helps the troop." They could benefit greatly from having you continue your current responsibilities, take on one patrol, and sit only on the boards of boys from other patrols. Anyone for the Spirit of the Law? As an ealy alzheimers candidate I can't stand the Letter of the Law! (Or maybe I think its important that you do what is right for you!) Keep on Scoutin'!

Hi, I'm a mugger. No, that not right -- I collect mugs. Over the years I've given most of our Eagle a BSA Eagle Scout mug. I personally consider attaining the rank of Eagle a special honor and many of the adults associated w/ our unit give similar gifts. (Eagle or NESA regalia.) The Chester Co. Eagle feather sounds really special.

Hi, I'm a mugger. No, that not right -- I collect mugs. Over the years I've given most of our Eagle a BSA Eagle Scout mug. I personally consider attaining the rank of Eagle a special honor and many of the adults associated w/ our unit give similar gifts. (Eagle or NESA regalia.) The Eagle feather sounds really special. tleaders and scouts have rec'd Aeathe

Two years ago "Metallic Box" emerged as we prepared for Klondike Derby. The Patrol standard (not flag) was a 12 X 12 X 5 inch black metallic box wired to a frame but carried trailing as on the breeze. Hmmm, while we've heard some interesting patrol names over the years I'm wondering about the expense of creating the patches. Our scout shop is carrying some non-traditional logos & colors. Any comments?

My regrets for the double post...

Good input on the knife -- I really enjoy whittling in camp. And while not from PA I do hail from "the Lower three counties on the Delaware" (Wilm., DE to be specific!) Resica Falls, Bashore, Horseshoe are all familiar -- we're trying Broadcreek this summer.

Good input on the knife -- I really enjoy whittling in camp. And while not from PA I do hail from "the Lower three counties on the Delaware" (Wilm., DE to be specific!) Resica Falls, Bashore, Horseshoe are all familiar trying BroadcreeK this summer.

Frankly, I hope that your son was corrected appropriately and the ASM was only advising you of the situation. Sooner would have been much better. Confidentially BEST. AS you seem to realize there is a right way and a wrong way to make sure everyone is on the same page once someone decides to correct a mistake. If it was a health or safety issue it could have been presented in a way that would have made your son proud to have already been straightened out (enlightened?) Instead,an unthinking leader rattles your cage and could have embarrassed one of our young members. I hope that all is now well. I attended an adult trainimg program which made a great deal of its professionalism and collegial attitude, right down to "Pomp and Circu,stamce" at the closing. Yet when they missed recognizing three attendees the person at the microphone ad libbed, "We'll make sure that anyone who was not registered on time will still receive their certificates. We have to check your paperwork so get it in on time!" The speaker was dead wrong. All three had been early registrations. One of them has told me that he will not attend another training if the same group is involved in preparing the program. Sometimes we just make it hard on everyone! Bob

Well done, BW. Some great background and some constructive criticism. How would the mentors interact w/ the emerging unit? My Council is only 200 miles & 60, we're divided into a half dozen districts serving 30 to 110 units depending upon demograpics. No roundtable is more that 45 minutes from the units and most are well attended. Our district has 46 Traditional units and 6 crews. I took some criticism over the last two years for allowing three units to drop; council said, "No!" chartering organizations said, "We're sorry, but we can't do this w/ limited reources and few boys." All three were institutional settings w/ underpaid staff (w/ no scouting background) and a transient population. Now we are carefully building units with an eye to the future. Sometimes I'm amazed at how good God can be! I count my blessings! Our Council has just restructured our New Unit Organization Procedure to introduce a Unit Commissioner to the prospective unit asap. We are recruiting commissioners with an interest in the community or Chartering org and trusting that if we can get them trained & attending Commissioners Meetings we can at least convince the commissioners themselves that they aren't to become the spies tht shemgren mentioned. A little good will and the cheerful attitude goes a long way. I must admit that I'm still working on several units that don't want to see a commissioner unless he can run interference w/ HQ; others appreciate the help at recharting. But out of 9 unit commissioners that serve our district's 50 units there are two older gentlemen that have units asking them to serve! These two guys attend regular meetings once in a while but they show up every time that they are invited to a special event. They sit in one committee meetings and occasionally camp w/ the troops. PopPop in particular has his finger on the pulse of the 5 units he works with. (Two pack/troop combos.) Both of these guys are retired and each brings a lot to every unit they serve.

The National Catholic Committee on Scouting and several other (non-catholic) denomnations have strong working relationships with National, (BSA). If time is short this year pickup off the shelf patches for the boys who attend your unit service or "show the colors" as acco40 noted. Next year get to work on the religious emblems program and try to have the boys recognized on Scout Sunday/Sabbath The relationships div of BSA is one resource... www.bsa.scouting.org is one place to start. Or try BSA supply Div. 18003230732 ask for item 5-879b "DUTY TO GOD, Religious Emblems..." (or if they're really friendly they might assist w/ your particular religious denominations material. Bob

Great thread! a coula' points that I know might be taken the wrong way. Different parts of the country face different problems. (1) Every Unit needs parents who are commited to their children and the program. It's possible that some of the parents that Dutch & his wife have talked to don't realize the true potential of scouting. (Remember we know that we're not the BabySitters... do the other parents?) (2) Also, every troop should have a unit commissioner who is close enough to the particular chartering organization to be able to honestly (and caringly) assist the leadership. Dutch, you might be too new to the unit to have the answer but, is there an "old hand" who could serve in this capacity & work for change? (Former Scoutmasters or other leaders who are remembered as part of "the good old days") Does the troop leadership participate in Roundtables & other official training opportunities... a good commissioner can facilitate this. (3) Does the Chartering Organization know how the troop opreates? What is their commitment to the program? Each year our Council publishes the BSA & Charter Partners letters of commitment in the council paper and has occassionally succeded in getting them into the smaller local papers as well. Will the leadership of the chartering organization lead the charge to refocus a youth group that is not living up to its potential? (4) It sounds as if the troop could be a winner. District/Council should not be allowed to let this unit slip through the cracks. (Either by permitting the advancement or by letting it fold.) Bob

I only skimmed the other posts but... we recently visited a unit that elects PL's twice a year (I'm not sure about SPL.) They've 50 boys, four patrols and a dynamite program. The 6 month tenure could work in a small, growing troop that committed to training their Junior Leaders. To KS, did the young man not hold any other leadership position. It sure sounds as if he has the right stuff.

Franticly searching... for a quote to the effect that "a leader is never out of uniform whn he wears the insignia of National, council and district and unit. One need not display every achievement and honor accorded." I've noted before that I like to display NEW badges and frequently recycle them in order to pique interest. Questions for the ages (sages?) Is it still possible to purchase a OA lodge (pocket flap) patch that doesn't overhang the flap? What are the limits on neckerchief design / ornamentation To which Supreme court are the Uniform Police accountable? Or more correctly who approves temporary patches for use?

Thanks! Now we have a place to start looking for new campsite!

Our unit used to camp on private property in the Somerset area and would like to return there this spring. Our old campsite was sold but 'young leaders" want to return to hike / climb Mt. Davis again. (You could see Maryland!) Any leads on camps or councils in that area?

Our fellow scouter, Mike Lahoff, will be remembered at the opening of the 3 Rivers District Roundtable tomorrow evening.

I love my neckerchiefs! I use them to promote the various activities in which I'm involved. Two or three blanks and a needle and thread have allowed me to whip up interest & conversation from pack or troop meetings to merit badge colleges to dinner at Philmont. I would note that I try wear an appropriate neckerchief. When honoring advancement blend in with the boys or other leaders; but when promoting camp let the others ask where the Neckerchief came from (or at least where they could get the patch I'd sew on it!)

To update on the original questions... the lodge gave approval for callout and ordeal activities except for the sharing of the history. Of the three boys who were under consideration one withdrew his name and the other two have elected to undertake the ordeal this fall. As was made clear through this thread Lodges have by-laws (or should). It is possible to be called out during in a ceremony that takes place out of Lodge (council) but most of the participants in this thread seemed to feel that the only place to undertake the ordeal is in the Lodge in which you will be active. (ASM1's transfer understood.) Thanks!

Thanks so much for the lead. I've spent the last two weeks gearing up for scout camp and haven't heard anything about band camp since the first of June. They had a blast last year; they worked realy hard all week and even harder over the weekend. The only thing missing from the team building of the weekend was the bonding of a COPE (style)course. (I know that is just too much to dream for w/ camp staffs making the switch from Summer to Fall.

So as I read it... The green tie is still acceptable since it was authorised as part of the tan,adult uniform. I agree That the Oath and Law ties are nice but I leave them for daily wear to pique interest in scouting. (My son wears his to school!) We might hear again from those who have the green tie available for trade...

Camp wanted for marching band arrive Friday, August 23 (afternoon / evening ) depart Sunday afternoon (8/25.) Must be within 2 hrs of Wilmington, Delaware (Southeastern, PA) Must have level parade field (30X60 yds.) Separate sleeping facilities for 50 guys & 30 girls (+/-). Pool or waterfront swimming and recreational activities a plus. Would like food service available but parents are willing to attend & do the cooking. My son is active in a high school band that was bumped from their regular slot at an area camp d/ to late reservation (us) & early fall construction (the camp). Any or all ideas welcome!

Thanks for all the input. We have passed the question up the ladder (Lodge chief and advisor) and haven't rec'd an answer yet. We're not interested in confrontation or overruling a group that our boys were interested in joining. As noted we thought this was a great way to get them into the Lodge. Electing only one or two a year means that those who are active in other extracurricular activities will be eligible and they might not be allowed to become active if the can't make their ordeal on the date set by council. If we get people involved maybe we'll try to work for change from within.