Bob White

I am saying that if the CO selected a person who di not have the ability to teach others then they made a bad selection for scoutmaster and expecting the BSA to change their programs to accomodate poor leader selections is not a good solution. There are two ways to change him. 1) change him mentally. Get him the training and development he needs to learn the skills of Scoutmastership or 2) change him physically, if he is unable or unwilling to develop the needed skills then accept that you made a poor choice and choose a person better qualified to replace him. BW PS Kudu, I apologize for misspelling your name. It was unintentional.

You would select one as the "primary registration" and the other would be the dual registration. The primary is the one where you pay the full annual membership fee. Your dual registration has no cost. In most cases your primary registration will determine which version of Scouting magazine you get and what mailings you recieve from your council. That will depend of course on how your local office handles mailing lists. Your tenure is not effected regardless of how many dual memberships you have, it is stil considered 1 year as a registered scouter. If however you are trying to complete a training award you will probably want to retain your primary registration in that office. I hope this helps, BW

Wasn't it a Democrat controlled Congress that passed this law? I was at a lodge a State Park last week that I have visited every year for the last three on buisinees. Each year it falls further into disrepair. The reason is they tell me is that since the State government got a Democratic Govenor and a democratic congress they keep pulling money out of the State park programs. Aren't the Democrats the "nature party" and the Repuplicans the big bad meanies who don't like the soft fluffy outdoor stuff? Seems to me your looking to impeach folks from the wrong party. Not that i'm a big fan of impeachments. I feel people should do a better job of selecting the right people to begin with. Right now more people still like the President over Nancy Pelosi.(This message has been edited by Bob White)

Who selected a Scoutmaster who was not good at teaching young people? Is the solution to the program changing the training or changing the scoutmaster?

Have you checked out any of the ceremonies in the Troop Resources book? Or how about having scouts portray the key founders of the BSA and explain what their rolls were in its development.

Kudo Did B-P never teach scouts basic skills through games and chalenges with a purpose for them to learn a specific skill?? Are you saying when he trained adult leaders he never taught them skills to teach the scouts and specific methods to do that teaching that was fun and incorporated games and the outdoors? How long would Baden-Powell take to show scouts the basic skills of the camping? I did not spend as much time with Bill Hillcourt as Terry here did. I only had the opportunity to have conversations over lunch a few times and listen to him speak about scouting at a couple events. Much of what I learned about forming and maitaining patrols and making every opportunity a chance to learn or use a skill came from my conversations with him. I grew up as a scout reading Green Bar columns on leadership where he talked about planning your meetings and campouts. Please let me know where anything I have shared does not follow the lessons you learned from him when he spoke with you. Thanks BW

The SPL in the troop I served would have been through the Troop Leadership Development Training At least once if not more by the time he became SPL, he would not need me to take him aside and tell him he is responsible. He already understand he is responsible, all I want to do is make sure that he still feels in control and still has a plan. When its time to go if the stove isn't done, while the scouts wait in the car to pull out the SPL and ASPL and I will go clean out the stove. We sill have a friendly evaluation of the last 60 minutes of the plan while we work, and next time...we will see if the stove gets cleaned out.

Well close Beavah. Packs and troops used to be real good at it. But youth members have been dropping steadily from the Boy Scout program for 8 years. And the big problems seems to be un-trained unit leaders. Compounding that problem is the number of "trained" leaders who adnittedly do not use the program they were taught. Dressin like a scout leader doesn't keep youth in the program. Usin' the scouting program Methods does. What would be your guess as to the number of "trained" leaders who actually follow the scouting program and don't just go campin' and hopin' the scouts will stick around? Let's be real optimistic and say 50% of all basic trained leaders purposefully follow the Scouting program. And others do their own thing because they "feel" it is a better than any EDGE or Blanhard voodoo leadership 'stuff'. Any idea what the current figure is for percentage of direct youth contact leaders in the BSA that have completed basic training nationwide? Take a guess.

I would wish him a "good night" and tell I would see him at breakfast. Maybe its been a long day and he's forgot his plan. I know that prior to the PLC we worked out the rough agenda and that cabin clean-up is on it,m so I am not concerned yet. In the morning after breakfast, I'd say "check your plan and let me know if you need any help, I will be in the adults cabin cleaning up" Then I would peek in after about 30 or 40 minutes and see what's happening. If they were busy cleaning I'd duck back out for awhile. If they were playing around and the tasks at hand were not done, I would find the SPL and ask "how goes the plan?" As long as his plan includes getting the work done in time to get home in time then I am still fine. If he feels there is time for a game, as long as he has a plan, and has a buy-in from the patrol leaders to get the work done and stay on the schedule, then I'm fine, and so is he. Why Ed...what would you do?

The Troop Level- Troop Leadership Training is really quite good and is designed to be done within the troop where the scouts serve. It is lead by the Scoutmaster and assisted by other adult leaders and previously trained youth leaders. It has Three Modules. The first is the Introduction to Leadership Conference. Here the Scout learns about the Youth Lead concept of Troop and Patrol operations, The Troop organiization chart and the National Honor Patrol Award program, as well as a brief overview of his role as a leader. The Second module deals with 'How to BE a leader'. In it the Scout learns about the vision of the troop's success, how to teach using the EDGE model. The junior leaders join in an evaulation of where the troop is and what the leadership teams needs to do to move closer to the vision. And then learns about the people he will lead and how best to serve them as a leader. In the third module the scout learns what is expected of him as a leader. meets with the adult who will be guiding him to discuss that scout's specific office and responsibilities and what resources are available to help him in his duties. The scouts recieve training in the Servant leadership attitude of scouting. And they take pre-printed job descriptions card and on the back write what their goals are for their term in office. These can be use to help track and evaluate the requirement to actively serve in their position. To close the training there is a Scoutmasters Conference with the SM and Patrol Leaders to help them set goals for their Patrol. So I guess the question is before you ask what is the Distruict or even the council doing, you have to ask ...What has the troop doing to train leaders? At this point in time does your Scoutmaster use the current Troop Leadership Training program provided by BSA and supported by the Scoutmaster Handbook, The Patrol Leaders Handbook, The Senior Patrol Leaders Handbook and the Commitee Guide?? How's that workin for ya? Does the troop send Scouts to NYLT at the council level?? (This message has been edited by Bob White)

There is no district level Junior Leader training course. The vast majority of Junior leader training is at the unit level. The Scoutmasters #1 responsibility is to train junior leaders. The purpose of most Scoutmaster training courses as well as supplementary and advanced leadership training is to help support the adult leaders in training junior leader at the unit level. If junior leaders do not know their job then it is primarily the Scoutmasters in that unit who are responsible.

I know that as Sea Scouts we seldom get to play with all the cool tents and backpacks but that the Boy Scouts play with, but it might be fun to list our water resources to show the kinds of things we use instead. We usually sleep aboard our boats rather than tent, and carry sport bags intead of backpacks. I was wondering how many Ships we have here and what they do in the water. So Eamonn, what kinds of water activities do you do? how many days a year are you in the water?(This message has been edited by Bob White)

As far as letting scouts fail, they are so many personal versions of what that means. Let's look at the Scoutmaster training video when the troop had a paper drive that was a bust. The problem was that the SPL did't give a reminder phone call to the patrol leaders. If the SPL knew he should make those calls and didn't do it, then I would be willing to let the event fail and use it as a teaching tool. But if the SPL was never trained to make that contact, Iand I allow it to fail then the event failed because I FAILED to teach the scout good communicating skills and I did't use good ones either. So for me to allow that event fail is not a lesson for the scout and could be harmful to his leadership position, not to mention the only thing it would teach him is that I was not a good role model. So when you are willing to let failure happen, make sure you know for sure just who is responsible for the failure, and where exactly they failed. When to lead The Scoutmaster Job Specific Training also makes another excellent point on the difference between adult and youth leadership. The time for adults to lead is before and after the activity, not during. During the activity the youth lead, we stand back and observe and evaluate. Before the activity we do a check to make sure the youth leadership is prepared, and after we help them with a self-evaluation of how it went. This is as true with a troop meeting or PLC as it is with cleaning a cabin. Something to consider.

Haven't got the specific figures yet but our Regional Boatswain told me today that while the national membership in Venturing has dropped again the membership in Sea Scouts has risen. I expect this trend to continue. Any Boy Scout who is losing his enthusiasm for Troop scouting, or just wants more adventure opprtunites, should investigate Sea Scouts. Not only is it probably the only growing portion of Scouting at the moment, but it has some of the best adventures, and if they join with their First Class rank they can continue to work on their trail to Eagle as a Sea Scout. (and our uniforms are very sharp and cost a fraction of price of a Boy Scout or Venturing uniforms:).

Technically, the unit doesnt. You are putting the wishes of the unit volunteers ahead of the those of the unit OWNERS. Remember the charter organization is the contract holder with the council and the BSA, NOT the unit leaders. So whether they are poor or not the CO is not required to relinquish the charter, the members are however free to transfer to another unit is they wish. But remember the assets belong to the CO, that means the money and equipment stays put, unless the CO agree to release them to another CO. Your 1st responsiblity as a Unit Commissioner is to see that the scouts have an opportunity for a quality scouting experience. You have a charter organization that was once supportive, your job is to help re-establish that connection. Then help the owners of the unit be able to offer a quality program. My recommendation is a 2 prong front. Front 1: While you work witth The Co's Instiututional Head to get the CO back in step and realizing that this is THEIR scout unit and not just a scout unit that meets THERE. Also get an active Charetr Organization Representative in place and a healthy Committee. Front 2: At the same time get the district training committee in there and fix the program. By that I mean train or re-train the Scoutmaster to get him or her in sync with the BSA program Methods, or have the IH and CR remove him and get a new Scoutmaster. Fixing the CO problem will not solve the poor program problem. You need to get the SM changed. Either get the current one to change mentally or get a new one and change him physically. When the problem is the program, then the solution is the program leader, in your case that's the Scoutmaster. He either changes of he gets changed. That is the only way you will alter the present condition. Moving a poor Scoutmaster to a new location serves NO ONE. IF THE CO IS WILLING TO RELINQUISH THE ASSETS... and you can find a new CO, you still need to change the scoutmaster.(This message has been edited by Bob White)

The Scout unit belongs to the charter organziation not the the unit volunteer, if the School or PTO does not want a unit no one should be forcing one to exist there. You cannot recruit kids in hopes of improving the program,. You first need to improve your program, then kids will want to join and stay. The approach you are taking is backwards and likely most likely fail. Save your energy for a charter organization that wants a Scouting program. (This message has been edited by Bob White)

In the BSA we identify and teach 4 distinct "styles" of leadership that can be used under difffering circumstances depending on the task and the experience of the person(s) you are leading. These 4 "styles" ar part of the Leadership Develepment "Method" of the Boy Scout Program. Besides the "styles of leadership" a part of the Leadership Development Method is that the adults model these styles and teach them to the youth leaders for them to emulate. For instance If I was a scoutmaster on a cabin campog trip I would probably spend a few minutes with the SPL the night before we leave and just say "what are we doing afetr breakfast in the morning?" (even though I know the answer). He would likely say "the only thing left to do is clean up and go". To that I would ask. "What jobs need to get done before we can leave?" Let's say the SPL responds, "gather our personal gear and sweep the floors." I would say, "is there anything else you can think of?", let's take a look around the cabin and see what else we have used in here". So the SPL says, "I think that's it.", I ask "what should we do with the wood stove?" the SPL says "oh that's right, it needs to have the coals shoveled out and the wood supply restocked." I ask, "how do you want to get that done?" and the SPL says, "I'll talk to the Patrol Leaders and get a volunteer". "Will every one know how to do it?" I ask. I can be available to teach them, if they haven't done it before." "Thanks" say I, "it sounds like you have it all under control, Nice Job!" I could have waited until morning and just pointed to the stove and said "Billy, while your standing there, grab the shovel and can and clean out that stove". One style is telling, the other uses coaching and delegating, but only the second one develops leadership, the other just bosses people around.

As it happens I know a bit about backpacking, and I know a few things about advancement requirements, such as there is no requirements for a scout to know the capacity difference in backpacks to earn Tenderfoot to First Class ranks. But he does have to know the basics for packing and what to bring, but he also needs to fold a flag, and have a patrol yell. Consider first teaching the Scout what the BSA program wants him to know, you then have 7 years to teach him the things you want him to know. That seems like a reasonable expectation on the BSA's part doesn't it?

And yet... how often have you heard an SPL tell a patrol member what to do? Is the SPL in charge of each patrol? If the Scoutmaster "tells" the SPL what to do do you think the SPL will ask or tell the PL what to do? There are two times when telling someone what to do is appropriate. Yet it appears to be the only style of leadership modeled in many troops. I can tell you from many Wood Badge experiences that going into the start of the week, few Boy Scout Leaders know any other leadership style. The minute the first Patrol leader is designated the first thing they do is start telling others in the patrol what to do. (This message has been edited by Bob White)

"Da boat owner chooses the destination, the crew gets to decide the route." Sorry, I know a lot of captains that would like to think that is true. but the BSA has already determined the destination (the Mission) and the course, (the Scouting program). In the old days folks who took other peopls boats and went where they pleased were called pirates, and they at least took off their nations uniform and flew their own flag eh!

That's...hmmm...a...'unique' way to view a national program, any national program. But it also explains a lot eh? I wish you luck with that. So if you are not following the BSA's training material to teach the BSA program, what do you use to teach others how to deliver a BSA program Brent There are 5 Cub Scout Job Specific courses each take an average of three hours. Are you truly suggestion on trainer VOLUNTEER to teach for a minimum of 15 hours in a single day by themselves... not including the 90 minute New Leader essential Course? In addition your plan requires 12 volunteers in every district so we would need to find 26,400 trainers willing to teach 15 hour days. Maybe we should rethink this one.(This message has been edited by Bob White)(This message has been edited by Bob White)

So if the Charter Organization that owns the pack doesn't care if it has a pack, and doesn't support the pack, then why do you want to draw more scouts to it? If you were selected as the captain on someone else's boat (and it was in in distress) should you be looking to first repair the ship, or trying to get more passengers aboard? Or maybe its time to look for a job on a boat with a better owner?

AS the story goes one American athlete and one Russian athlete ran a foot race to determine bragging rights as the best country. After the race, which the American won, Fox News proclaimed "American Wins!". CNN's lead sory headline was, "Russian places Second...American finishes next to last" It's no use fighting how the media reports, or doesn't report. News is not about facts. It is about marketing. The more segmented the media keeps the readers and viewers the more they can focus their target marketing and increase revenue. This is not new in media and has gone on for many decades.

No...pack backing is not a new skill. Sometimes I have to type on the run:) plesase read that as backpacking.

The road map is explained duing New Leader Essentials and the job specific BASIC training. The problem is that less than 3 out of ten youth contact leaders go to basic training, and not all trainers teach the actual course syllabus. If you believe that that information is not being shared in your council/district training courses you should have a talk with the council training chairman and share your concern. I would be curious as to their response. Good Luck BW