Bob White

"Back in the mid 1990's it was possible for a while to transition Webelos boys who had AOL into Boy Scouting at the rank of T-foot with the permission of the SM." I invite you to produce any BSA resource that supports that statement. You will not find it. There is nothing in the Webeols Handbook, Boy Scout Handbook, Scoutmaster Handbook, or Scoutmaster traiing materials from any decade in the BSA that says that. You (are someone you got this idea from) are confusing the requirements of Tenderfoot with those of the Scout Badge. LisaBob, Webelos use to progess into Boy Scouts on their Birthday, just as boys used to become Cub Scouts on the Pack meeting closest to their 8th Birthday. However the joining requirememts are different now, and you will have lttle success getting a boy today to saty in cub Scouts until he is 11. But It's me makes several incorrect assumptions based on either exposure lack of training or a belief that the things done in the unit he serves are common practices done by all units ior supported by the BSA program, and they are not. >ItsMe is free to take in Webelos in whatever month he chooses provided the boy is eligible. >The troop Its Me serves can do their annual planning in whatever month they want . >If a scout joins the troop and does not have the skill or training for an upcoming activity, then they should not participate in that activity "this time". That does not mean the scout will never get to do that activity. it just means that there is a level of skill and knowledge needed to do the activity safely and the scout is not yet ready. There is nothing wrong with saying that. This is why the BSA supports a three level troop program. So that the scout takes part in training and activity tahtare appropriate for their age abd stage of development. Scouting is not designed to have a single troop plan for every age scout. Gold Winger's discussion on summer camp should be (and has been) in a different thread(This message has been edited by Bob White)

There are some 300 Boy Scout summer camps held each year. Some will have good merit badge programs and some will have bad one. Some camps will have on any given weeks good counseors or bad counselors. It all comes down to the same thing; selecting the right people, training them well, and good leadership. Do the counselors in you council go through trainng before camp begins? Are they observed teaching? are they evaluated by their camp leaders? Are they given insight into what they are doing right or need to change or imprive. If the camp leadership isn't doing that then the unit leaders at camp have a responsibility to say something to someone in the camp leadership who has the authority to correct things. There is nothing wrong with a scout having enthusiasm for learning or advanceing. The problem statrts when the adult leaders substitute their enthusiam for advanceing in place of the scout's, as an example units with an 'advancement schedule'. There are only a few things that a MB Counselor must do toi follow the BSA procedures. >The must make sure the scout does the requirement as specified in the BSA requirement. For instance, if the requirement is to play and instrument in a school band, and the scout does, then the scout has passed that requirement and the counselor is correct in approving it. >The counselor must test all scouts individually. He cannot ask a question in a first aid class andhave one scout in the group anser for everyone. That would be the same as havng one person in archery shoot a bulls eye and giving everyone ther credit for it. You must test individually. > The person who teaches the skill does not have to be a registered counselor. But the person that tests and approves the requirement must be. Any Scout camp should be able to follow these simple steps, but sometimes they lack the manpower to be able to monitor eveery MB class. So be helpful, and friendly and visit the classes yourself from time to time and let the camp leadership know what they are doing good at and what needs their attention. For many scouts pounding their intials into leather and stitching it into a key chain will be the first step into enjoying a life long hobby or erhaps even a career. And that is what Merit badges are all about. I'm not saying the scout does not have top do ALL the requirements iin order to earn the badge, I'm just saying remember what the purpose of the MB program is, and it is not about making the scout an expert on the topic.

Substring, learning is a good thing, especially in your role as a unit commissioner you want to be sure that you are supporting the actual BSA program. Having a program plan is a good thing in Boy Scouts, having a program plan that teaches and applies the skills of scouting is an excellent thing. Having an Advancement Schedule is a very BAD thing and is not supported in any training or resource of the BSA. There is no need for any adult to feel badly about a scout who leaves the program at any age as a First Class, Star, of Life Scout. All those ranks teach valuable skills and characteristics that a scout will be able to draw on throughout his life. NOWHERE does the BSA state that the goal of Scouting is to attain the Eagle Rank. If that were the goal than we have done very badly for the the last 98 years since over the years less than 5% of scouts reach that rank. Personal growth and ethical decision making are the goals of scouting. The advancement program is one way we measure and reward that growth, IT IS NOT THE GOAL ITSELF. By having an advancement schedule you are not using the Methods of Scouting correctly, and as a commissioner it is important that you understand that. Jblake47 At no time has receiving the Arrow of Light fulfilled the requirements for the Tenderfoot Rank. At best the AoL fulfilled nearly all the requirements for the Scout Badge. But the Scout Badge is not a rank. Anyone who gave a Scout his Tenderfoot based on having the Arrow of Light did so in error. That has never been a part of the Boy Scout advancement program. (This message has been edited by Bob White)

Thank you for the clarification Annie,. I have never seen the BSA support operating a pocket knife in a game, and was pretty confident that what you saw was not from the BSA. Instead how about a site that teaches and tests on the different types of pocket knives, parts of a pocket knife, or types of blades. or perhaps Knife Safety.(This message has been edited by Bob White)

Neilups advice is very good except for point #4 which is incorrect. the requirement is that the scout ACTIVELY SERVE not just hold the office. In the Troop Leadership Training Course the Scouts learn the specific expectations of their positions and completes a goal card of things they are going to accomplish during their tenure. It is the adults role to help coach an mentor the junior leader throught the course of his tenure not just hand out POR patches and evaluate the scout at the end of the leadership period. So the measurement of a scouts service is clear and easy IF the adult does their job as a Scout Leader.(This message has been edited by Bob White)

Annie, I am curious, what "BSA" publication did you find that in?(This message has been edited by Bob White)

Not looking to argue Substring. I'm looking to understand what you are suggesting for It's Me to do since it doesn't seem to be in sync with the advancement policies of the BSA. Much of the thread seems to be based on misunderstandings of the Scouting program such as; when Webelos cross over into Boy Scouts, when Troops do annual planning, and how advancement in the Boy Scout and Cub Scout programs work. As well as the earning of merit badges, and the purpose of summer camp. Comments like "we would be less dependent on summer camp to obtain all our Tenderfoot to First Class requirements" raises real questions about basic troop leadership knowledge. The program does not make summer camps responsible for teaching and testing ALL of the Tenderfoot to 1st Class requirements. In fact the program does not even make summercamp responsible for teaching ANY of the requirememnts. The responsibility is for the troop program to do that durimg meetings and outings. It would seem that there is a general gap in the knowledge of information covered in basic training for these two programs. I honestly think that a better understanding of the basic program information would answer many of It's Me questions and quite possible help you in your commissioning responsibilities. BW

If they did not have their First Class earned by summer camp, could they not work on exactly the same merit badges?

Substring writes "Our goal is to get them to First Class by Summer Camp this June so that they can start earning Merit Badges." Substring, Boys Scouts can begin earning merit badges as soon as they join, They do not have to be First Class before they begin, nor can a unit make a rule that says they must be. It's important that leaders attend the basic training courses to learn the advancment program.

Tools not toys. I would not recommend making the use of knives in a game. To kids game means competion, and competion means "go fast", and that is not how wood tools should be used by scouts.

"Are there troops out there (cue echo machine) that cross in September to better align with the school calendar? Troops do not cross, Cubs Scouts cross from the packs. It is NOT the decision of the troops as to when they come. As far as when dou get your planning calendars...I do not know since not all councils do it at the same time. Besides if We are doing a canoeing outing that does not mean that avery skill level of scout is going. I think perhaps the reason this discussion is not going the way you expected is because you are making assumptions that how things are done in your scouting community is universal to the BSA and it is not. (This message has been edited by Bob White)

Our Boatswain and I attended a Blue and Gold last night and had great fun with the Cubs. We took the jib and mainsail from one of our Star race boats and laid them out on the floor. The we used cub scouts to create the mast and hull, and taught them terminology for the main parts of a sail boat. Then they asked questions of the Boatswain for about 10 minutes. We finished by inviting them to visit us this summer for a cook out in our beach while they Sea Scouts sail some of our boats over to them to see. If you have a Sea Scout ship in your area you might consider inviting them to a pack meeting to talk to the cubs about the adventures awaiting them as they go through the program.

You can cross Webelos anytime you want once they become eligible for Boy Scouts. Most Packs I have seen do this in February as part of the Blue and Gold Celebration. The other cub ranks do not "cross" per se, they graduate to the next rank program at the end of the school year. For most packs and certainly every pack that I have ever been in contact with, that happens in June. Why the pack you refer to does it in March I have no idea.

They don't. We simply do not have enough Venturing units and members to support one yet. Venturing accounts for about 2% of our scouting population. So the council is not motivated to offer support services until the program grows, but how will the program grow without more support services. We have perhaps three Crews/Ships out of perhaps 12 or 15 total that really have a healthy program. The rest are just extensions of troops with no real idea of the difference between Venturing and and a venture patrol. So until there are more crews actually asking for the needed district and council support I do not see it being developed by the training committees.(This message has been edited by Bob White)

We use consultants a lot. Usually they come to us during our events and work with the scouts. We have had officers from the Dept. of Natural resources do boating safety , as well as trainers form the Power Squadron. We have had trainers from the Coast Guard Auxiliary do radio operations and signal flare training. We have other boaters take the Scouts out to do engine maintenance and power boat operations. We have a consultant for navigational skills, one for Racing rules and strategy, and another for sail boat maintenance and repair. So while I suppose you could look at programs outside of the unit program as 'consultants; we just look at those as outside activities that the scouts can attend as individuals, and consultants as experts that come in to work with the scouts but are not registered with the Ship.

The biggest things are that you should not put youth last names, addresses , phone #s, etc, in public view. I would also not put a calendar of upcoming events in public view. You can post where you have been, but I would caution against saying where you will be, and when, in the public view. Other than that I know of know other suggestions or guidelines from the BSA.

Shadow Leadership=observation->evaluation->personal coaching and mentoring out of range from those they lead (unless they or those they lead are in harms way).

The only problem I see is that it is not a very good reflection. Nothing was learned, no specific area needing improvement was identified, no specific strength was reinforced.

Since when does a troop committee vote? The knowledge available through training is a good thing. From the Troop Committee Guide and the Troop Committee Challenge traing; The Committee Chair assigns tasks and the committee members report on their progress at the monthly meeting. The Scoutmaster determines program, the committee members support the program, they do not determine it. The committee needs training. (The committee is not a democracy, it is a benevolent disctatorship)

Your Scoutmaster is trying to follow his training. In the Scoutmater Leader tgraining the scoutmaster does his work before and after the meeting. Before the meting he tajkes a few minutes with the SPL to make sure he has everything ready to go and to his confidence in the SPL's ability to lead the meeting. AFTER the meeting the recommended method is for the SM to meet with ALL the PLC to do a 10 minute evaluation of the meeting, amd to recogognize the things they are doing well so they know what behavior to repeat. So rather than cutting the meeting short why not encorage him to include the other PLC members. That way you do not have to have the second adult with him. Keepin mind these extra 10 minutes comes to about another 8-hours a year out of his life that he is donating to help other peoples children develop into responsible adults. If he is willing to spend that extra time I would hope the parents would be willing to let him. He's doing the right thing.

But first a Vision. Your ticket goals should relate to what you want to accomplish in your vision of Scouting. Write doen a few ideas now. Be careful not to think you are done with your ticket itens before you have even experienced the rest of the training information. As you learn more, more odeas will come to you of how you can improve, and what you can accomplish using the skills you are being taught. Relax and enjoy the journey. There will be time allowed you next WB weekend to add more to your ticket. BW

Scoutmomma amd acco40, I am curious what part of Morally Straight do you not comprehend? Or maybe the better questions is "what do you think it refers to"?

Sorry Capt. I glazed right over that. You are correct. BW

"a venture patrol at NYLT"? Captainron, where did your quote come from. I cannot find where any poster has said it or mentioned a venture patrol?

TRAINING TRAINING TRAINING My recommendation is that the Committee Chair, the Cubmaster, and the Charter Organization Representative meet. The Cubmaster has enough on his hands without worrying about adults not playing nice together. The CC and CR should give him some time off to take care of his wife and family while they battle cancer. The pack will still be there when he is ready to return but his family's needs should be a priority. The Committee Chair and the CR then need to get the other leaders under control and trained. The Tiger leader and the Treasurer have ZERO authority in pack operations. The Committee Chair and CR need to know what their role is and choose an Assistant Cubmaster to lead the program until the regular Cubmaster can return. You are a Den leader, lead your den, let the administrative leader (the Committee chair) choose a program leader (Asst. Cubmaster) that she isn't married to. This alone will resolve much of the infighting. And then teach each person their specific responsibility and ask them to get on with it.