Bob White

Vision: A picture of future success. I think having a vision of what you want to see the successes of the troop to be down the road is the perfect place for the troop leadership to start its planning. It will be important that you are able to get other key members of the unit to share in that vision so that as you build long range (annual) plans, and short range (monthly and weekly) plans, they keep moving you closer to your vision. Having everyone trained in their roles (and following their training) will help to avoid pitfalls and give the unit its best chance for delivering a quality program. best of luck, BW

Your focus needed to be on providing aid to the injured person. If others are far enough back to allow you to render that aid then they are as far back as you need them to be at the moment. If you would prefer them back further and have an actual reason for that you can discuss it with them later. Why were they so close? Human nature. Some are curious, some are concerned for their friend. Some are looking for a way they can help. Some may have more first aid experience than you know, and are observig to make sure those giving aid know what they were doing. One way you could have reduced the problem was to give assignments to some of them. You could have send them for first aid kits (even if you hav=d one handy), you could have sent them to hold doors and direct emergency personnel. etc.. I think that if they were far enough back to allow the injured to be aided then you are overreacting to the situation.

Rather than try to retool the Den using a mass of den chiefs or "practical" dens, why not just get back in line with the BSA training and the recommended structure of a pack program? As you know the den is way too big. It needs to be at least 2 dens. Each person in a pack can and should only hold one role. As you have found out, when you ignore the program structure then problems develop. The pack leaders need to refresh their knowlegde of the program that can be found in the Cub Scout Leader Book and make the necesarry changes to get back in-line with the program or the problems will grow. bw

Joe An important skill that leaders should practice is reading the scout handbook beyond just the requirements pages. When you follow the page referenced in the service requirement you find this. "The requirements for the Ranks of Star and Life call upon you to give at least 6 hours of service to others. You may complete this requirement on your own or do it along with other members of your patrol, trrop, squad, or team. The project must be approved by the Scoutmaster." The scouts service to his church as an altar boy and cantor is no more "routiune service" than his role as a Sunday School teacher. And besides that "routine labor" element ONLY relates to Eagle projects. Bottom line is if a scout wants to do service for others it is better the scout choose to do it than choose not to do it. That kind of community involvement should be recocognized and encouraged rather than knitpick at what is a project and what isn't. BW

eghiglie, Other than what specific signatures are required, nothing in the BSA advancement policies or procedures requires that any specific person or person filling the form. The important thing is that the card be completed, not who completes it. The purpose of the card is to create a three part receipt: one for the counselor, one for the unit records, and one for the scout. To micro-manage who filled in the blanks other than the signature lines is unnecesarry.

DD is not always the next step for a Senior DE. I have seen Sr. DEs go directly to a filed director's position. We recently had a senior DE become the council finance director. I was also in a council where the Sr. DE became a council property director in another council. A District Director as stated before manages other DEs and Senior DEs within a district, and can be one of the positions that a Sr. DE is promoted to based on skills, educational background, and previous performance.(This message has been edited by Bob White)

If the IH does not have the support of his or her superiors to have a scout unit there, then perhaps they should not have a scout unit. No unit is going to be as strong as it can be, or last as long as it could last, if the organization that owns them does not want them. Never operate by a fear of what 'might' happen. Operate by what is. If you need a CR then go the the institutional head and explain why you need an active Charter Organization Representative. I would also strongly recommend to him or her that having a husband and wife team in the committee chair and unit leader position is VERY bad. Rarely will anything good come from such an arrangement. The same is true of having spouses in the committee chair and committeetreasurer positions, or the Scoutmaster and Advancement chair positions. The chartering organization needs to have an objective manager overseeing the scouting program, That is one reason you need an active CR. Bob (This message has been edited by Bob White)

Determining committee positions is a shared responsibility of the CR and Committee Chair. Either or both can make the determination with the CR having the final say. This in no way makes the CC the same as a CR. The CC is not a member of the district and council committee by virtue of his or her position as is the case with the CR. Nor is the CC the representative of the scouting program to the charter organizations board as the CR is. The function of the Committee Chair is to: A) work with the Unit leader to insure a year round planned program. B) provide support for the unit's scouting program. C) assign tasks to the various committee members and hold monthly committee meetings to check on their progress.

Thank you, yes, a fellow Mate and I were recognized by our council recently with this recognition. It was a very unexpected and kind gesture and a very nice dinner with friends. I think the best part was that after over 30 years as an adult volunteer this was the first time my mother was able to attend one of my scouting events. As for my sailing abilities I am happy to say that the scouts in the Ship I serve are progressing much faster than ANY of the adults when it comes to our seamanship skills. Mainly because they get far more practice at it then we do. I would not want it any other way. BW

You Can send your ideas to Terry Lawson, Director of Boy Scout Advancement at the BSA national office in Irving, Texas.

CNY Scouter writes..."I do not see any where in the SEAL documents where it says that 18-20 year olds can not attend." I think I can help show you where they make it obvious that an 18 to 20 year old will have a much harder chance of going. Here is what the "official" info sheet to the ship officers states. "Sea Scouts that wish to apply for SEAL training must be a registered Sea Scout between 14 and 18 years of age although occasionally an older youth might be accepted to fill out a class." So it seems pretty clear that 18 to 20 years olds are only going to be considered to fill seats to meet the budget if needed. Making the course available to 14 olds with the Ordinary Rank is silly. You might as we make NYLT open to 10 1/2 year old Star Scouts. How can a youth become eligible to join at 14 and out of the 8th grade and then complete Apprentice and Ordinary ranks by the end of that same month in order to meet the requirements for SEAL. This course has restricted itself to serving primarily 16 and 17 year olds. So a youth has a two year window out of a 6 to 7 year program to attend a training course that serves 2/10 of 1% of the Sea Scout youth membership each year. Unless the folks that have dominion over the SEAL training allow more councils to offer it, then I would support directing Sea Scouts to a Kodiak X on the water and we will stop promoting SEAL altogether.

A counselor must be approved by the council advancement committee for each specific merit badge they wish to counsel. They may only approve advancement on those specific badges for which they have been approved.

"Your comments show you really don't understand how the course operates I am not sure that anything Argyle has said shows that at this point. Perhaps we should find out how many Scouts from the ship he serves has attanded SEAL in the last few years and how many of the different locations they served at. So Argyle have you actually had any scouts attend SEAL?

Yes, within the context of the scouting requirements and obligations, but not beyond that.

You remember the details of a size chart from a few years ago? Unbelievable!

You're right Macy. It's unfortunate. I think your original post asked a good question. Yes, the board has every right to ask the scout about how he met the requirements of the rank. That includes how he meets his obligations to be reverent and to perform his duty to God. I believe that it is rude asking him what his religion is, and it's irrelevant to the requirements unless the scout brings it up in his explanation since belonging to a religion is not needed in order to fulfill the requirement. I hope this helps you. If you would like more information without the enhancement of a musical soundtrack then please feel welcome to private message me and I will help you find the BSA resources to help you better understand the bor process. If you would prefer getting help from one of the other posters or chorus members then I am sure they would welcome you to contact them directly as well. I hope this has helped. BW

The size guides are different because they come from different manufacturers and they are different types of clothing classifications. Just because the BSA is the retailer does not mean they control the size charts. Do you think J.C. Penny tells the manufacturer what the sizes will be? The BSA give's you size charts on nearly every piece of clothing they sell. Do realy have that much trouble reading it? On top of that you want some store clerk to tell you why the manufacturer labels things the way they do? They have no more control over the labeling than you have. They are there to process sales. If they kept repeating "the size chart, the size chart"....it was probably because they couldn't believe that you couldn't understand that ..."There's a size chart" If the XL is too big for you then by the Large size instead. Is it really that hard to figure out? Be aware that there is a +- of .75", this is not the BSA's fault either! This is an industry standard. If you find me on the floor it's from laughing.

You guys do realize that the BSA doesn't make these things themselves or determine the sizes, right? So here is the good news. The BSA publishes the specs for you to see BEFORE you buy the apparel. So whether you think the specs are too big or too small compared to other clothes you have bought, you can buy the jac-shirt the same way Goldwinger buys his dress shirts. You can measure your chest (1" below the sleeve) and measure your sleeve length, and then using the chart SUPPLIED BY THE BSA you can buy the size that fits you regardless as to whether you thing the small, med. large x-large etc. specs meet your approval or not. So rather than complain you can read the chart and get the right shirt every time. Now let's sing some more! Follow me boys, follow me, When you think you're really beat That's the time to lift your feet, And follow me boys, follow me, Pick'em up, put'em down and follow me, Pick'em up, put'em down pick'em up.

Get the chorus line ready... Not "my world" I don't manufacture the clothing. But I can read spec sheets from my manufacturers and wholesalers. A suit jacket and active outwear such as the BSA JacShirt are not the same thing . They aren't even in the same classification. Fleece wear, windshirts, Anorak jackets and apparel of that sort are cut much larger. The BSA JacShirt is within the industry standard for that type of clothing. So you buy dress shirts by neck size and sleeve length, good for you. That is actually the right way to do it. Do you by t-shirts that way too? probably not since that type of clothing is not sold that way. Do you buy suits that way? sweatshirts? Of course not. If you haven't noticed different types of clothing are sized differently. What would make you think that a jacshirt would be sized like a dress shirtt or a suit? Let's sing! Follow me boys, follow me, When you think you're really beat That's the time to lift your feet, And follow me boys, follow me, Pick'em up, put'em down and follow me, Pick'em up, put'em down pick'em up. (This message has been edited by Bob White)

Sorry, I'd like to be able to relate but I can't. I can think of one time that that parents got overprotective and it ended quickly and never came up again. I had brought a slide show of a recent campout to share with the troop committee. It was the same meeting where they were going to plan the spaghetti dinner so I knew there woud be a number of parents there as well. We atarted with the dinner plans and when I said the scouts would wait tables, serve coffe etc. some of the parents went crazy. "we can't have scouts carrying hot coffee around they are too young!" I said I understood how they could feel that way but I knew something about their scouts that they probably didn't know. Then I switched on the slide show and showed them their scouts swinging double bit axes to drop 40 ft pine trees then clearing them of branches, cutting them with two-man buck saws, and finally splitting them with hand axes and 3/4 axes. "But they can't pour coffee?" Lots of parents don't realize what their kids learn through scouting (lots of leaders don't teach scouts to be this independent) and don't see what the scouts can do. When parents see their scouts learning and growing they learn not only to trust the scout but to trust the leaders as well, and then they will give both the room they need. At least that has been my experience. Follow me boys, follow me, When you think you're really beat That's the time to lift your feet, And follow me boys, follow me, Pick'em up, put'em down and follow me, Pick'em up, put'em down pick'em up.

The sizes you list are not uncommon for outerwear specs. I checked specs on 5 of my suppliers and they are equal to or within an inch either way of all of them. They aren't 10" larger than other outer garments of that style. They are about 10" larger than a sport shirt. As an example an Izod golf shirt in XL has a chest of 48". Even golf windshirts are the same or similar size specs as the BSA JacShirt. (This message has been edited by Bob White)

Warren You ticket goals will depend on your personal vision. The idea of the ticket structure is that each goal is a step toward a mission that leads to the vision. It is not meant to be a random shopping list of various things you want to do. They should be steps toward a personal purpose. What is your vision of what you want to accomplish in your role in scouting. What things can you do to move closer to that vision? Thoise things are you your ticket items.

To earn the training strip in Cub Scouting you must complete Basic Training which includes New Leader Essentials and Leader Specific Taining for your role in the pack. For instance as a Wolf or Bear Den leader you would need to take New Leader Essentials and Den Leader Specific Training. Neither the National BSA Learning Center or the GNYC offer these courses on line, so at this point in time they would have to be attended in person in order to complete your Basic Training and wear the Trained strip. The FastStart courses and Youth Protection can be found on line along with other supplementary courses and and they are approved by the BSA as official BSA training and your particiaption in them is recognized as valid training experiences.(This message has been edited by Bob White)

I recommend you contact your local scout office with as much info a you can muster about when and when you recieved your eagle. Council name, city, state, date, unit #, Chartering org. etc. I am sure they will be happy to assist you as soon as they can verify the advancement.

Contact your local scout office. You will find them in the white pages under Boy Scouts. Thank you for being willing to share your expertise. BW(This message has been edited by Bob White)