Bob White

I never said that DE's don't have to raise money, I said their role is to to accomplish the goals of the council through the use of a volunteer workforce. If BadenP or anyone else has evidence to the contrary they should should share it. If BadenP or any poster feels that so many of my posts have been inaccurate then they have been strangely absent in sharing ANY BSA resources that are contrary to what I have posted.(This message has been edited by Bob White)

Getting it wrong is not HOW you learn, getting it wrong is WHY you should learn. Getting it right shows that you have learned. It's the work you do in between that is the learning.

That's ok because you also had an another anwer incorrect and I wasn't going to mention it till the answers were posted, so you are correct you only had 52% correct and not 61% my apologies for the miscount.

Jet, I do not understand you sudden condescending attitude using phrases such as "until the Master gives us the answers" YOU asked for the quiz remember? You aske for the quiz and then you insult me for posting it when you do not like the results. That is hardly hardly courteous. If I knew that was your intention I would not have met your request. I explained that all the answers are in the BSA resources. You don't need anyone to give you answers, your are free to learn the program on your own simply by reading the answers in the BSA literature.

Hotdesk What you and others seem to overlook is that the entire situation is quite absurd. Why did the DE not use the commissioner staff to evaluate the unit's program that would be any DE's first move? Why did the CO not get a CPA to audit the troop books or at least an accountant? Why is a person who says he is amply qualified asking for advice from strangers on a task he should know how to do. Why would the DE and CO pick someone who does not know how to do the tasks he was asked to do. These are important questions. He says he is qualified to do the tasks but he needs us to tell him how to do it??? That is simply not logical. It's okay to have an open mind but it shouldn't be so open that the wind can whistle through. hherifor's posts make no sense.

This is not a contest to see who camped the most. Advancement is individual and ant all scouts do ecactly the same things the same way. My question was how many days and nights of camping is a scout required to do to advance to Eagle and DID the scout meet those requirements. If so what does it matter how often he camped ion the last two years. Scouting is NOT a camping club.

Basementdweller Actually it IS in the Cub Scout Leader Book and in the Guide to Safe Scouting and in the Youth Protection Training and NONE of them say tell the cubmaster. Perhaps you should review these resources and see what you were and are supposed to do. For instance...when a Scout phyically injures another scout your are REQUIRED to notify the Council Scout Executive!

uz2bnowl How many days and nights of camping does a scout need to do to earn the Eagle Rank?

You are not channeling me gern your are starting to support the policies and procedures of the BSA. Has the scout met the requirements of the BSA? If so then he advances. If he hasn't, then why did the adults who signed off on his requirements, and signed his application, and passed him on his boards do so? They can't wait until the last minute to finally take their roles of Scouting leadership seriously.

Unless these are Tigers there is no reason, and no program recommendation that parents be at Den meetings.

What instructions were you given in the BSA Youth Protection training for when one scout causes physical injury to another? What instructions are you given in the Cub Scout Leader Handbook for a scout whose behavior interferes with the delivery of the program or causes a safety risk to himself or others?

Hi BadenP, While I understand that you say you spent a couple years in the profession, I have worked with professional scouters at all levels, all of whom have been in the profession for far more time than you spent, for many more years. Even today, I and many, many, other volunteers probably have a much closer relationship to professional scouting today than you. I'm confident that the information I shared is accurate. I did not say that DE's do not raise money, I said that their primary role is to train and encourage others to do so. The fact that a DE's toughest job is meeting the goals of his or her employer through the use of volunteers over whom the DE has no leverage is undeniable. I realize that the chip you seem to carry on your shoulder at times inhibits your view of the BSA. I am have no such impairment and I stand by the accuracy of my post.(This message has been edited by Bob White)(This message has been edited by Bob White)

Jblake, I understand why you respond, the questions is why is he asking. He is not asking us about scouting, he is asking us about accounting, a task he says he is amply qualified to do. You would think if he needed a sounding board he would have posted on a forum for accountants. Instead he asked a bunch of scouters whose skills are totally unkown to him to give him tips on a task he tells us he is well qualified to do. I am not asking why people respond, I am asking why if he were qualified would he be asking strangers to suggest to him how to do it. If sommeone asked you to audit an organizations books, and you were qualified and experiencesd in the task, would you go about asking strangers how to do it? "If everyone knew everything there is to know about scouting, surely this forum would become obsolete." I disagree, but if everyone just knew their particular job in scouting certainly this forum's posts would change dramatically.

Why would someone who says he has ample credentials to do an audit need to ask a bunch of strangers of whom he has no idea of their creditials, how to do it? Why would someone who says he has ample scouting experience to evaluate a unit need to ask strangers how to do it? It would seem logical that if he was asked to do these jobs because he had the skills and ability to do them, that he would be able to just go do it. Why would he need instructions from anyone, let alone from strangers?

8 out of 18 for a score of 44% acco.

11 out of 18 Calico according to the resources of the BSA. It has come to my attention that we must add a third resource, that of the Unit Money Earning Application. (This message has been edited by Bob White)

Dan You are 2 fo 6 for a score of 33%

Jet526 You have 11 correct out of 18 for a 61% Gern, you are also 11 for 18.

First Venturing and Boy Scouting are two separate program. Why do people expect that they would? You do not expect Cubs and Boys Scoputs to have identical rues. What is a 9 year old in Boy Scouts??? He is not old enough. What adult position does a 19 year old hold in Venturing. None, they are not old eneough. Next "I wonder what the policy might be if a Troop and Crew go on a high adventure activity and the troop SM and or ASM is under 21/" The scoutmaster can never be under 21. The membership policies of the BSA require that the SM be 21 or older. So if it was a troop event the SM has to be at least 21 and the AS has to be at least 18 and the unit can go, although for a high adventure outing they would do better taking 4 adults not two. As for the crew if they had an advisor (BSA says they must be 21 or older) and another adult leader (who is also 21) and they can go. What is the big problem here?

I think many scouters have a huge misconception fo what professional scouters do. The De's biggest job is not fundraising. The De's biggest job and biggest challenge is meetin the goals of the council through the leadership and management of a volunteer workforce over whom theey have absolutely no authority or leverage. As an example FOS. It is not the DE's job to fundraise, it is the De's job to recuit and motivate volunteers to fundraise. The DE's job is to meet the financial goals of the council. The volunteers job is to fundraise. If they don't then it is the DE that feels the heat not the volunteer. It's very hard to be resonsible for very inmportant goals and have to depend on a workforce who you have no authority over. It is the DE who develops a strong volunteer workforce who gets the goals achieved without burning out.

No interpretation on my part Ranger. I posted word for word the contents of the Venturing Leaders Handbook. I leave the interpreting to those who would wish that it says something other than what it does.

Twocub dad what you need to do is bring together the various elements of the Uniform Regulations in the Insignia Guide, The advancment regulation in the Adv. Committee Policeis and Procedures Manual, and then the inform ation on BSA Health and Safetynad Risk Management, As well as an understanding of the BSA safety policies. The BSa makes it clear that the project is not a unit or district activity, and their is no such thing as an individual BSa activity. It clearly belongs to the benefiting organization. Once you realize that the project does not belong to any level of the BSA the rest is just common sense. As far as what you feel you need to do as the leader, can you show me anything in the training or resopurces of the BSA to support that feeling? Remember the unit leader is not the only person to sign that the project was completed and that the scout did the planning and leading, so does the representative for the benefiting organization by whom the project is owned.

I began as a scout leader at the age of 22, and was a unit leader for 18 years before my son was old enough to join scouting. I never felt that my age or my lack of parenting experience ever effected my abilities or the way I was treated by others. I think you will likely do just fine. Welcome back! BW

First sorry for the typos I was multi-tasking at the time. GW, you are like our very own scarecrow of OZ. What exactly would I be jealous of? Not getting to audit someones books? I hardly think that is cause for jealousy. I have a PHD in skepticism at times. You would think that if a DE and CO needed someone to audit a unit's finances AND program, that first they would get two different people, and second they would select people who knew how to do it that would not require the assistance of total strangers. The whole scenario just does not make any sense. My positive recommendation would be to get someone who already knows and has experience in doing audits such as a CPA, and someone who knows how to elvaluate a Scout unit's program, such as a trained and experienced commissioner. Let the Co worry about the money, it's their money. Let the district staff worry about the program, that's what district service is supposed to do. (This message has been edited by Bob White)

Don't misy=nderstand it's not personal it is just odd. First it is odd to have the same person checking the books and eveluating the scouting program. It's sorta like having the p[lumber inspect your deck. Second you would think someone woith an accounting background would not be asking scouters how to audit books, or spomeone with a scouting background acking what to look for in evaluating a unit's program. It's just odd. Add to that a District executive asking someone other than the commissioners staff to evaluate a unit when that's what the commissioners are trained at, or tpo have a DE ask for someone to check a units books when that is not the De's job or somewhere they get involved. Lastly if an organization was to have an audit you would expect them to bring in a CPA. Its just the whole thing is very odd. As far as the fawning over hherifor's resume... while I am confident he or she is a very fine person the world is certaly not at a loss for MBAs or fopr scoutmasters with three years of experience. Neither would immediately make them a first choice for either an audit or for evealuating a snother unit's program.