Bob White

Actually we agree completely. My whole point is it is for the BOR to determine if the scout dressed properly, not the SM. I am really less hung up on the policies than I am on allowing everyone to do there own job (and taking the training required to it it correctly). The SM is not the Big Wheel, dictatorships do not produce good citizenship.

sctmom, Just so we agree we are on the same page (sorry about the pun) it says "the scout will be able to ddetermine if he is ready" not the scoutmaster determines if he is ready! A much more positive approach than the SM refusing to let him attend the BOR!

sctmom, May I recommend a position? With your enthusiasm and growing knowledge, you would be an great candidate for 'Troop Training Coordinator'. this is a relatively new committee position. You will need to attend New Leader Essentials (if you haven't already), Troop Committee Challenge and then Trainer Development/BSA 500, the last course helps you learn training skills and teaches you the BSA training continuim. Your responsibilities are to promote training at all levels to unit scouts and scouters. You will also be able to deliver training to adults within your unit on a small group or one-on-one basis and sign their training records. This would be a valuable service to your unit.

HMMMM, I just had a posting disappear. If this ends up on the thread twice I apologize. I have not found a vague policy that I can recall (vague procedures maybe). the Advancement Policy on Uniforming and advancement says "a boy should be neat in appearance and wear as complete and correct a uniform as he can". The Board of Review (3 Committee Members)need to talk with the boy and see if he meets this requirement (it reflects on 'Show Scout Spirit'). the important point to make that it is not the decision of the Scoutmaster. If the SM is going to predetermine the findings of the Board then why have the board? Determinations on advancement progression is not the Scoutmaster's responsibility. As far as how this is implemented. i once had a scout appear at his board as he returned from a family funeral. He was neat and he wore as complete a uniform as he could(none). The events of the day and the family schedule were not in his control. HE did the best HE could. To refuse him a BOR would not be in the best interest of the boy or in keeping with the spririt and goals of the program.

sctmom, "I sense that THE FORCE is strong within you"! Happy Scouting!

You are right about more than 3 palms. 5 MB past Eagle--Bronze 10 MB Past Eagle--Gold 15MB past Eagle--Silver (note, not in Olympic order) 20 MB--Bronze and Silver 25 MB--Gold and Silver 30 MB--Silver Gold Bronze 35 MB--Silver Silver Bronze 40 MB--The Dave Letterman Show

A warm handshake (left hand of course) and a hardy slap on the back to Rooster7 for correctly answering today's trivia questions!

Glad your enjoying jethehiker. Is that your final answer? OOOH sorry, wrong on both. Would you like to buy a vowel?

Jethehiker, I'm curious, if your ASMs do all that what is left for your tr5oop committee to do? I can see ASMs supporting program elements, But why isn't administrative support in the committee's hands?

thanks jethehiker, First Class First year is one of the most effective program tools we have. it starts with the New Scout Patrol program under the leadership of an Assistant Scoutmaster and a boy Scout selected by the adult leadership to be a Troop Guide. the Troop Guide is an older scout who can help to set a good scouting example for the new scouts in both skills and behaviour. the Guide is an voting member of the PLC (Patrol Leaders council) along with the patrol Leader from the New Scout Patrol. the new scout Patrol gets 2 votes in the PLC to hel keep the wants and needs of the new scouts frm being trampled by the decisions of the older scouts. New Scout patrol leaders rotate leadership every month so that everyone in the patrol attends a PLC meeting. The New Scout Patrol uses a some what segregated program from the older scouts. It focuses on the skills and activities needed to achieve First Class Rank the first year. I know alot of posters have shown concern fo new scouts advancing to quickly. 2 points to keep in mind, 1. that's the program. 2. the advancement criteria as defined iin the advancement policicies is 'did the boy do his best'. If he has to tie a bowline and it takes him an hour to do, he met the scouting requirement. He does not and should not be held to an adults standard of how well he should have done. By focusing a specific program on the new scouts they will progress to First Class in the 11th or 12th month. I highly recommend you develop added incentives such as a unique neckerchief for scouts who achieve the goal. really in a well planned program there is little reason for this not to happen with 100% of your scouts. The results are great. Higher retention rates, energized advancement enthusiasm, better outdoor skills, better socialization with older scouts, stronger understanding of Patrol method and unit operations. Once they attain First Class they can choose to stay together as an older patrol or shotgun into existing older patrols.

this is an offshoot from a disussion in uniforms. Several variations in how units do Boards and SM conferences has become evident. My personal concernis that advancement procedures are closely controlled by National BSA Policies. The primary rule to remember is that no unit or individual has the authority to add, or subtract from, any advancement policy, procedure or requirement. I'm not trying to promote 'Scouting According to Bob'. this is abbout scouting according to the BSA. Remember this is their game we are just the lucky ones who get to share it with the boys. If you were a baseballl coach would you even consider teaching your team a different set of rules? For instance there have been alot of posting supporting the wearing of a full uniform to a Board of Review. The 'Advancement Policies and Procedures' manual is very spevific on this point. "a boy should be neat in appearance and wearing as correct a uniform as he can". No unit has the authority to change this rule. Why would a Scoutmaster refuse a BOR? A scoutmaster role is to train junior leaders and know the needs and characteristics of each scout. Why not leave the BOR to the Advancement chair and the troop Committee members who comprise the board to administrate advancement policies? Also, something that has been mentioned is BORs only happening with scouts ready to advance. The scout program is very specific on this point. Board of reviews should take place on a regular basis, not just when boys advance. You should also review boys who are not advancing to determine possible program weaknesses and to help motivate advancement. Scoutmaster Conferences; Maybe I'm reading too much into some of the posts, but it seems to be the general belief that SM Conferences need be held at the end of the advancemnt process immediately before the BOR. Actual it needs to be signed before the boy attends a Board for rank advancement but not if he is going simply to be reviewed. Also the conference can be done at any time during the advancement period. Keep in mind the main purpose of the board is not to verify that the boy is ready to advence. That is the Board's job. The scoutmasters Conference is a device to force the SM to sit down face to face with every scout from time to time. Where did I get this from? I hate to drop names, but I was trained by Bill Hillcourt on this. Again the purpose of this post is not to say "look how much I know", I guess I'm just frustrated by so many postings from obviously dedicated, well meaning scouters, who are not using the scouting program. i see alot of info being shared that is in direct conflict with the rules that we agreed to play by when we signed our membership application. i'd like to see others who use these techniques respond so that the benefit of following the program could be understood and encouraged. As always scouters who want to do the right program are also encouraged to post questions on how to present a BSA scouting program. Just for fun, here is some scout trivia. 1. How many ranks are there in Boy Scouts? 2. What is the only rank goal that is promoted by the BSA (promoted not celebrated)

Glad to here you are making hte transiton. Be sure to make it to SM/Asst. SM Leader Specific training. There is a big difference between Adult run Cubbibg and Boy leadership in Boy Scouts. 'Troop Program Features' is a series of three, three ring bound manuals. each one contains 12 unique monthly themes for scout meetings. each theme has program ides and Troop Meeting agendas for a 4-week program. An ninvaluable tool for teaching and aiding the Patrol Leaders Council for program planning. 'Troop Program Resources' is a single product, also in 3-ring binder format that provides troop program highlights such as games, ceremonies, good turn projects, and commonly used forms. It also includes a CD of the entire manual contents so that you can easily print off copies at home. For instance you can print off the game section and give thhe copy to whichever Patrol is resonsiblee for this months games. or give the Cerenonies section to the Junior Leaders who are planning the next quarterly Court of Honor. Happy Scouting

We seem to have come full circle in this discussion, and then some. This started talking about uniforming, drifted into advancement and now is a mingling of advancement and uniforming. I think it would be clearer if we kept the 2 separated for the time being. The bottom line that I tried to explain when I jumped on board this conversation is that there seems to be some basic misunderstanding of BSA administration. NOT everything written in scouting literature is POLICY, (rules unalterable by the units) Except for three areas. UNIFORM, a trademarked symbol owned by the BSA, ADVANCEMENT, no unit has the authority to add to or subtract from the requirement found in the Official Boy Scout Handbook or the Advancement Committee Policies and Procedures pamphlet. SAFETY, information in Bold print in the Guide to Safe Scouting must be obeyed and cannot be altered. Requiring full uniforms in order to advance is in direct violation of the policies of the BSA and has never been and will never be a requirement. Individual units and individual adult members signed an agreement through thier Charter and in their membership application to follow the BSA policies and program NOT to change them to fit thier personal vision of what the program should be. Please see the new string on Board of Reviews and SM Conferences.

Dan, Scout's Honor, I'm not a professional scouter. Just a volunteer who has had a successful and fun filled time in scouting for over 3 decades. More explaination in the new string on this board regarding troop literature. by the way..Your can call me Bob, or you can call me Bobby, or you can call me B.W. or you can call me Bob W., but you doesn't have to call me Mr. White.

This is the start of what I hope will be a string of helpfull print resources for BSA scout Troops. Maybe next we could do the same for Cub Leaders. I know I must sound like a commercial for the National Service Center, but I'm just a volunteer like I suppose most if not all of you are. I've been in unit scouting and unit support since the mid seventies and served in 4 councils. My experience has shown me that the best Scout programs are the ones that toe the national line. BSA (and by the way I refer to the BSA as thousands of talented , dedicated volunteers who have a handfull of professionals that help to implemnt our decisions), has put alot of time into developing the best youth program in the country. I've had a very successful run as a unit leader and trainer and have a pretty good idea of what separates a Troop that Scouts and one that does stuff in a scout uniform. Well Let's Get Started. When you add to this string please try to stay focused on legitimate scouting resources and not someone elses version of scouting. I would recommend the following literature to all troops. To the right of each publication I name the people who need to be aware of the resource. In some cases you will need multiple copies. Do Not feel like you have to read every line before you begin. Some are resources that you can go to as the situation arises. However you need to know that the resources exist and you need them at hand. Program Resources Boy Scout Handbook--- SM, CC, All Scouts Junior Leader Handbook---SM, all Junior Leaders Scoutmaster Handbook---SM, CC Troop Program Features 1,2, and 3--- SM, PLC Troop Program Resources---SM, Asst. SM,PLC District/Council Calendar---SM, SPL, CC Administrative Resources Troop Committee Guide---CC Boy Scout Advancement Requirements---SM, Advancement Chair Advancement Policies and Procedures--- SM, Advancement Chair Guide to Safe Scouting--- ALL adult volunteers Uniform Insignia Guide---SM, CC Training Resources MayI suggest that you call your local Training Team and make a deal with them. You will gather all your registered adults in the troop for 2-hrs and the trainer will come to your location and deliver the New Leader Essentials training to everyone. Then you arrange a Friday Night or Saturday Morning (we used a scout lock-in night) and have all the adults return for 3-hrs and the trainer delivers the Troop Committee Challenge. Finally Get your SM and Asst.SM to Scoutmaster Leader Specific Training and Introduction to Outdoor Skills, ASAP. You can have 100% of all your adults trained in under 6 months. Imagine the power of everyone understanding the program and gelling as a team as they learn together. Wood Badge and JLT are icing on the cake and will only enhance the program. A LOT! There are other excellent program literature but I'll Sign out and let others share.

I followed the edit steps too and could not edit my post.

FScouter, it's amazazing how quickly we get to know each other over a posting. Why I can already sense the humor with which you wrote of the the 30-second Board of Review. As a scouter, dedicated to the healthy development of boys, I realize that you would actually have the committee members on the board discuss the boys developing character with him and guide him to a positive resolution for the growth of the scout. Both of us realize that we can create greater change through meaningfull contacts with the boys and that there is little vakue to a 30-second Board.

And there in lies the rub. Uniform policies exist to keep the symbols of scouting 'uniform' throughout the BSA program, not just uniform within a single unit. the policies allow a choice of approved shirts, pants, belts, and socks. Along with a wide variation of neckwear and headwear. the choice of footwear is almost limitless. You can even have matching t-shirts, just don't call it a BSA uniform. We do not have authority to swap non-official pieces with official pieces.

You really do need to read the Advancement policies and procedures. In the event you just described, if you failed to review the scout, he would be allowed to appeal. However, if you give him the Board of Review, the board can postpone the advancement based on the scouts attitude, spirit, lack of evidence as to understanding and using the motto, lack of understanding or living the scout law "a Scout is Loyal,Clean, Courteous, Obedient" throw in Trustworthy if youlike. The Board must then tell the scout 1.why he did not recieve the advancement 2. what specific actions must he take to complete the requirement (in this case, show scout spirt) 3. and be given a day and time for a new review. Those are the rules. The Scoutmaster, and the troop Advancement Chairperson need to know and follow all advancement policies and procedures. As an aside,keep in mind that the primary rule of advancement is 'did the scout do his best' not did he do as well as someone else, or as well as everyone else, or as well as a particular adult wants him to do. Did he do his best? If he did he advances and if he didn't then he doesn't. That is a guideline that every scout and adult should be able to follow.

Ask Your Council to Contact the National Office. Actually everything (99%) of what you need to know in the way of policies can be found in 4 sources. Scouting primarily controls 3 areas with policies (regulations that are unalterable by units). 1.Uniforming, "the Insignia Control Guide" and "The Money Earning Application" 2. Advancement, "the Advancement Committee Policies and Procedures" 3. Safety, "Guide to Safe Scouting" There are procedures for all sorts of things, mostly paperwork, but the policies are primarily listed in these three relatively small, extremely inexpensive manuals.

Be glad to bigbeard. It may take me a day or two, and I'll start a new string on the general discussion board. I'm sure there will be other resources that fellow scouters have found helpful that they will want to add as well.

HMMMMMM, She gets to be both the CC and the COR? Kinda like getting to be the President and the Vice president at the same time. Actually if you look at the first policy in the Guide to safe scouting, (policies are in bold lettering) an adult is only allowed to hold one position within a single unit. This would preclude her from chartering in two registered positions within the same pack. COR is probably the best way to go and then she can select the CC. As far as junior leader positions keep in mind our goal is to train boy leaders. the way we do that is while they are in office. The Troop is Boy led from the get go. Oh things may not run real smoothly all the time, but that is not the purpose of the program. The boys run the troop the Scoutmaster trains junior leaders. Happy scouting

It's great that you want to crosscheck. The manual you want is available through your Council Service Center. Remember that You cannot add or subtract from Advancement Policies, change uniforming unless the policy states an option, or set Safety rules that are less stringent than those stated in guide to Safe scouting.

Good advice. Also, go to training ASAP.

* Set the example by wearing full and correct uniformimg among all registered adults. * Clear and consistent definition of the correct uniform * Positive reinforcement for individuals in proper uniform * Let the parents know from the moment of joining what the uniform expectations are and WHY we wear uniforms * Money earning projects that help a scout make uniform and equipment purchases * Address uniforming at Boards of review * Work with Cub Packs to encourage Full and Correct uniforming before the boy reaches Boy Scouting * implement Uniform exchange within the unit to help curb costs * Have a parent who enjoys garage sales to keep an eye out for uniform pieces (don't forget to check the Goodwill shops) * Use uniform pieces as prizes and incentives * Post scout posters displaying scouts in full uniform * encourage attendance to High Adventure activities such as Philmont and National Jamborees, where Full uniforms are abundant * Train all your adults so that they understand the methods and goals of the program * get junior leaders to Junior Leader Training where they live and learn the importance of "setting the example" * Do not compromise the program by setting lower uniforming standards * Have Monthly uniform inspections where The Junior Leaders inspect the Patrol Leaders and the Patrol Leaders inspect their patrols. allow only positive statements directed at proper uniforming, use the uniform score sheet available at your Scout Service Center and create a reward program for Patrols with the highest score. (positive peer pressure) * make sure scouts see that a full and correct uniform is a reflection of good scouting characteristics. (prepared, loyal, obedient, clean)