Bob White

I think being in scouting to help your son is one of the best reasons there is. One of the most effective tools we use in selecting new leaders is to remind them that there is no one else their son would rather play with than his parents. As you say you are not the one calling the shots in the pack. So as as long as the ones who are willing to take the "noble road" you spoke of , then there is room for both types of philosophy in the unit.

I understand you are new to Boy Scouting sctmom, and I really do applaud your willingness to get involved. I would hope that your enthusiasm carries into wanting to understand the methods of the program. In order to be a MB counselor you need to register with the local scout council as one. On the counselor application you have to show evidence of proficiency in the area either through specific training, career experience or experienced hobbiest. I still like your College Bowl game or maybe a Jeopardy style game could work. These are teaching aids and you still require a testing method that will allow you to evaluate the individual knowledge of each scout rather than the combined knowledge of the group. As an example. In rifle and shot gun MB you can teach firearms safety and parts of the gun and even aiming methods to the group. Then Each person must shoot their own rounds at their own targets to prove their individual proficiency. It would be a poor measure to let some scouts each take a few shots at the same targets, get a sufficient score and then pass the entire group based on the prowess of a few. Like in the rifle course you need a method to test each scout individually after they have been presented the MB information. So settling on a teaching method is only part of effevtive teaching, you still need a testing method.

I tend to agree with mom scouter. You need adult participation for a number of reasons, ease of workload, adequate leadership coverage, scope of the program, to fulfill the cub scout method of Family activity. But You need the boys to be in scouting. So how do you as rooster7 said get people who meet the packs idea of leadership, get enough help to operate the pack effectively, not force people to help, and not leave boys strnded outside the program?

I'm not saying it can't be taught this way. I think it can be. I think teaching each other through games is a very creative approach. It's just that the advance regulations of the BDA require the scouts be TESTED individually. Since the Scouts cannot do everything required of this badge in one class sitting anyway, I'm suggesting that you make this a higher quality experience by teaching the info and not testing it. In other words don't sign the cards. Have the scouts meet with you or another qualified MB counselor at another time so that each can be tested on there own knowledge. Bob

I guess my question is still the same. How will you individually test each scout to see if they undersood was was taught? As I read the requirements you can teach #s 2,3,6,7 and part of 5. You could even use the game you sugest to have the scouts teach each other. You still need to test them individually. I'm not saying it can't be done, I'm just wondering how you might do this particular type of MB in this specific forum and meet the guidelines of the advancement program. Bob

I've seen the mandatory sign up list used effevtively for things like Blue and Gold committee, pinewood derby committee, holiday party committee, etc.. you know one time committments. But do you use the same method for Den Leaders, Assistant Cubmasters and Committee Members?

sctmom, That sounds like fun, but let me play devil's advocate here. Won't that game only test the knowledge of the one scout who answers correctly first. How will you know if the other scouts know the material. Most Merit Badge College/Day type events do not meet the merit badge advancement standards of the BSA. Group instruction is an approved method but you must still devise a way to test the knowledge of each scout individually. (se Advancement Committee Policies and Procedures manual) Your College Bowl game could be a pre-test to wet their learning appetite, but it would then need to be followed by actual instruction, and finished with a way to test each individual scout. Otherwise has the scout really learned? Have we created effective advancement or just convenient advancement? Some things to consider, Bob

featherswillfly, I appreciate your dilema however I strongly suggest you use the current viseo even if it was veiwed before. Remember it is unlikely that every boy remembers all the information in the program. Plus theu have aged another year and have another year of life experience that they bring with them to the session. Things in the video that didn't mean as much then might now. My final point is please stick to the BSA produced materials. The 3 videos are age group specific. "It Happened to Me" for 6 to 9 year olds, "A Time to Tell" for 11 to 14 year olds, and "Youth Protection: Personal Safety Awareness 14 to 20 year olds. Use whichever fits your specific group or groups. (follow the presention guidelines closely). I also recommend the the "Scoouting Magazine" reprint of "Words Can Hurt" May-June 1992. It discusses harassment and bullying. It is available through Scouting Magazine Division Reprint department in Quantities of 25, 100 and 200.

Don't ya just hate those paper Eagles. Why it makes your blood boil just thinking about them. Like in 1931 that 13 year old kid that got Eagle Scout, Sam Walton. Fouder of the little store chain Wal-mart. Who did he think he was foolin? Almost as bad as those scout leaders who think they can judge a boy's heart by the number of candles on a cake. Makes your blood boil.

Cubs may customize neckerchief slides but NOT the neckerchief. They must wear the neckerchief appropriate to their rank. Bob

The uniform policies of the BSA do not allow customized neckerchiefs in the Cub Scout Program. They are an option in the Boy Scout Program however. Bob

andrews, According to the Venturing Leader Manual their "choice of Uniforms" is between the Spruce Green Venturing uniform and the Sea Scout Uniform (page 7 last paragraph). When doing field activities they can be out of uniform and wear clothing appropriate to the activity. The Eagle medals(not the Eagle patch, because that is for the Boy Scout Uniform Only.)can be worn on either the Venture Scout uniform or the Sea Scout uniform for formal occasions only. (page 8 first paragraph of the Venture Leader Manual)

A common problem I see in local units, primarily Cub packs, is in the area of adult voulunteer recruitment. Units are either loaded with help or barren. Could those of you who are in units that successfully recruit adult volunteers share your tips here. I have some specific recommendations but will save them for awhile and let others share. I look forward to your comments. Thanks in advance for sticking to the topic. Bob

Four excellent points have been raised already. 1. Unit Leaders attend chartered organization's meetings and events. 2. Periodic activity reports to the Charter Org. (I'm assuming you mean in person, far mor powerfull tan in writing.) 3. Do service projects that benefit the charter organization. 4. Have an active Charter Organization Representative on the committee. The last item can be a challenge. as we continue to list things we can do to get closer to our CO let's add ideas on how to have an active COR. The conversation continues....

ewww-tbone, It works like this.. Eagle Board of Review date+3 months and 5-merit badges beyond 21+Palm BOR = Bronze Palm Palm BOR+3 months+5 more MB= Gold Palm (put the bronze one in the drawer fo awhile) Palm BOR+3 months+5 more MB= Silver Palm (put the Gold one in the drawer fo awhile) Palm BOR+3 months+5 more MB= Silver Palm and Bronze Palm (the one from yopur drawer) Palm BOR+3 months+5 more MB= Silver Palm and Gold Palm (the one from your drawer, put the bronze back in the drawer for awhile) Palm BOR+3 months+5 more MB= 2 Silver Palms (put the gold one back in the drawer) Palm BOR+3 months+5 more MB= 2 Silver Palms and a Bronze (the one from the drawer) Palm BOR+3 months+5 more MB= 2 Silver Palms and a Gold (yes, the one from the drawer) Palm BOR+3 months+5 more MB= 3 Silver Palms (Gold one goes you know where) Palm BOR+3 months+5 more MB= 3 Silver Palms and you guessed it the Bronze palm from the drawer. So you see you always earn them in order Bronze, Gold , Silver. But you never wear a Bronze and Gold together because they are always equal to a Silver. Hope this helps. Bob

Scoutmaster Fundamentals was replaced a year ago by a new training program. You can also finds the chart on Page 11 of the Troop Committee Guide.

Hi netscouter, I hope you have a great time at camp. As rooster7 said it varies by camp. most camps I have been to request that scouts and scouters wear the uniform to meals and ceremonies. Check with your summer camp for their traditions. Allow me to clarify something though on hats. For youth to be in full uniform (according to the BSA insignia guide) they can wear no hat or the offial uniform hat. I realize that rooster7's opinion is common but it is not the actual uniform policy of the BSA program. Also be aware that "class A" means different things to different units. The BSA does not recognize the terms Class A, Class B etc. You are either in uniform (Official shirt, pants or shorts, belt, socks) OR you are out of uniform. There is no inbetween. that's not to say that there aren't perfectly appropriate times to be out of uniform, because there is. But you are not in a class B you are simply NOT in uniform. Bob

You can see a chart at Scoutmaster/ Assistant Scoutmaster Job Specific Training. it is part of the training program.

As it has been mentioned in other threads, not all units have a healthy and mutually beneficial relationship with their Chartered Organization. Like any relationship the ones shared between units and COs have good times and bad. Like most relationships they require work to remain healthy. In this thread I would like to ask for unit volunteers that have good relations with their CO to share with others what they did to strengthen that tie and what they do to maintain it. Thank you in advance for staying on the topic.

fscouter, The annual leadership review happens when your unit processes the Charter Renewal. The Sm serving at the will of the COR is a fact of our program. The COR approves every adult volunteer in the unit. This point was covered in your troop committee training. The Chartered Organization owns the troop and selects and approves every adult.

To grekonsz and family, I owe you an apology. I joined this string to help a boy scout who I knew was being treated unfairly. I hoped to share with him the facts of the advancement program and let him know that he was not being treated properly within the rules or the spirit of the program of the BSA. I apologize because I allowed myself to be drawn into a debate with a single poster. I have nothing against getting involved in a spirited debate, but it should have been in a separate string. I find using this young mans real life problems as a platform for someones personal entertainment distasteful. Please read the early posts and realize that the scoutmaster, whether he realizes it or not, has exceeded the rules of scouting. As the parents of the scout, should the SM choose to not follow the BSA regulations, you may ask for an immediate appellate board of review from the district advancement committee. I can guarantee you he will pass as long as he has met the requirements in his handbook. I will no longer post to this string. Best Wishes for Happy Scouting, Bob White

Is it possible you could stay on topic for one post? (I think the vein in my forhead is about to explode:->). The Policies of the BSA are specific. A scout has only to do the things required of him in the Official Boy Scout Hanbook. No person or persons may add or subtract from these requirements. We are discussing a specific and real incident not your personal fairy tale of scouts in undergarments. We are talking hair length and it would be apreciated if you stuck to the topic. You cannot keep this scout from advancing due to hairlength. Any District, Council or National Board of review will over turn you (as they laugh at you) for such a hideous misuse of your responsibilities as an adult leader. I have to go now. Please feel free to continue your thoughts of undergarments in the privacy of your own home or office. But I don't feel this is the proper bulliten board to post them on.

Best of luck MomScouter. I'm confident that you will find a troop more deserving of your son's membership and your interest in scouting. Please be sure that your troop Committee Chair and Charter Organization Rwepresentative understand why you are leaving. Perhaps it will give them the motivation to seek a remedy. Let us know when you find a troop. Bob

DD where do you get the idea I care about troop Rules? I have made it clear I care about the BSA rules, and a troop CANNOT write regs that change or oppose BSA regs. There are no rules against any of the things you mentioned except possible dresses and I have a photo from a World Jamboree that you might be interested in with scouts in sarongs, skirts and dresses. It is not your job to judge the IMAGE of an Eagle Scout. It is your job to deliver the BSA program not the Dedicated Dad program! Again I ask you to present one BSA resource or regulation that allows you to deny this scout his advancement.

Since the Charter Organization head is responsible for choosing the COR and the CC, a much true representation would be for the COR and CC to be seen as equals. Any way you look at it the fact is the Scoutmaster is not the "head" of the unit. He or she is selected, approved and maintained on the charter at the will of others. The SM has no authority over the committee or any of it's members. The SPL is in charge of the troop. The SM's job is to train junior leaders. Bob