Bob White

Greetings all, I wanted to get back with some info that was inquired about during another string, regarding statistics surrounding the effectiveness of the First Class First year emphasis that is supported in the Scoutmaster Handbook, The PAtrol Leader Handook, The Advancement Committee Policies and Procedures manula and the Scoutnaster Leader Specific Training Course. I contacted the national office about three weeks ago and left a request for that information. I was contacted today by Terry Lawson, the Director of Boy Scout Advancement. Teryy apologized for not getting back tyo me sooner. He just returned on Wedneday from medical leave and just now found my request. Terry is working with the statistics office (I didn't know they even had one) to get us the information we requested. I haope to post the answer here soon. Thanks for your patience, Bob White

The Council President is usually responsible for selecting an ad-hoc search committee that would do the interviews and report to the council executive board for final approval. The regional and national office constantly monitors a CEs performance. They are evaluated based on the 3 areas of expected growth in a council; money, manpower and membership. All 3 areas greatly affect the ability of the local communities to offer a quality scouting experience to the area youth. The Council President also has the availability of taking concerns about the CE to the regional office. A CE can be reassigned within the profession or put back into the hiring pool. Their performance history would determine if they are given an opportunity to advance, move laterally or be offered an opportunity to re-evaluate their career choices. Bob

The Council President is usually responsible for selecting an ad-hoc search committee that would do the interviews and report to the council executive board for final approval. The regional and national office constantly monitors a CEs performance. They are evaluated based on the 3 areas of expected growth in a council; money, manpower and membership. All 3 areas greatly affect the ability of the local communities to offer a quality scouting experience to the area youth. The Council President also has the availability of taking concerns about the CE to the regional office. A CE can be reassigned within the profession or put back into the hiring pool. Their performance history would determine if they are given an opportunity to advance, move laterally or be offered an opportunity to re-evaluate their career choices. Bob

I have never been involved in the total process so I can only tell you in general as I understand it. Councils are ranked according to the size and strength, National and regional divisions determine a hiring pool from which local councils may choose. The CE also has a choice as to what openings they want to apply for. Local volunteer selection committees then interview the applicants and make the final selection. This is pretty close to the system used as I understand it. Bob White

Eman, Why would you want someone in Irving, Texas hiring your local council professional? The council pays their salary, shouldn't a local selection committee do the hiring. It's less about the people who represent major contributors doing the selection. It's more about people with executive management experience selecting the executive manager. The CE isn't supposed to be a scoutmaster, that's not their job. They are resposible for managing other professionals and keeping a huge non-profit organization financial sound and growing. It's our community, our kids, our money, shouldn't it be our selection? Bob White

There are some caves outside of Bloomington Indiana as well where you can spend the night. merritt, try asking at a district Roundtable. Perhaps others in your district have done this activity as well. Bob White

OGE is right. A Venture Patrol is different from a Venturing Crew. The Venture patrol is part of troop scouting and wears the khaki uniform with red shoulder tabs and the Venture strip above the BSA strip over the right hand pocket. They may also wear the Venture "V" on the right breast of a red jacket or at the bottom of the merit badge sash. See the Insignia Guide for other details. Bob White

http://www.troop167.com/weight_restrictions.htm

How about a behaviour contract? A written aggreement between the scout, the family and the troop leaders as to what behaviour each can count on from the other, and what to expect should the contract be violated. To show that all things are equal, have one drawn-up for each person in the troop to show this scout's parents that you are not expecting anything from thier son that you don't expect from every other scout. Bob White

So ScoutPro If I understand you correctly... You realize that the council, by congressional charter, has no authority in these situations. So you advise the volunteers to sue, and then you advise the council to pay, and all this Pro Bono out of your heightened sense of community spirit. You must be so proud. I guess when I think of volunteerism as a way to enrich my community I have a different definition of "enrich" in mind. Bob White

ScoutPro, I am unsure of what your background or training in scouting consists of, but you have some major misconceptions. A scout unit is not "at the mercy of" the charterd organization. The unit is a youth service "of" the chatered organization. Without a charter organization there is no scouting. We have had a charter with the Congress of the United States since 1916 that provides the operating structure of scouting in the U.S.A. The BSA cannot operate units, scouting units can only exist as programs provided by local organizations. This is the way scouting has worked for 86 years. Tens of thousands of scout units and millions of scouts have taken part in this program under these provisions. The vast majority without any problems of any kind. To say that this happens often is a gross overstatement. Your right that if more parents were involved things like this could be avoided. But your suggestion to sue the CO is pointless. As you are aware the CO owns the unit and its assets. Your advice will only frustrate the family more without changing the outcome. This is not a case of fraud but of poor communication and poor judgement. Scout units are operated by volunteers from all walks of life, the vast majority are just well meaning parents tring to do there best. Sometimes mistakes are made. That doesn't mean that a law was broken. Bob White

The policies of the BSA as stated in The Guide to Safe Scouting are clear. Physical, verbal and mental abuse are forbidden in the BSA and must be addressed immediately. The CO was well within its authority to rescind the boy's membership. I appeciate your empathy for the boy and his problems. I agree that scouting has elements that could be helpfull to him, but first you must think of the saftey of the other scouts. The scouting program is an effective developmental organization but it is not the only one. There are others better equipped to help this boy at this point in his life. I hope his parents realize his needs and get him the qualified help he requires. Bob White

ScoutParent A national policy already exists. It says that money earned by the troop belongs to the troop. Not every troop uses scout accounts. Not every troop gives the same percentage to the scout. Your problem was not created, nor will be solved through national policy. That money was never your son's. It was set aside from the troop funds based on whatevery criteria the committee determined for each fundraiser. As such they set the rules. I grant you, they should have communicated those rules. If they didn't share those rules then they should do whats best for the scout. The parents who were not on the committee should have asked what the rules were. The good of the scout should be the guiding factor, but most importantly adults should set a better example for boys by playing nice together. It is unfortunate that this troop is not playing nice together. Bob White

ScoutPro, That's not entirely true, while the BSA cannot stop an organization outside of the troop from holding a raffle, the State can. One reson that the BSA does not support raffles as a fundraiser is that several states have made raffles illegal. The BSA did not want to give blanket approval to fundraising event that many state laws did not allow. The other reason is that all scout fundraisers are to provide a service or product of value to the participants. A raffle only provides the hope of a product and so is not in the spirit of the program. Bob White(This message has been edited by Bob White)

Scout Parent, please temper some of the things you read with your own good judgement. Not all the advice you are reading is in the best interest of your son or scouting. The coucil, dispite what others might write is not a governing body unless a policy of the BSA is violated. It would be similar to the federal government only having juristiction over federal laws, and not local laws. Each Chartered Organization owns their scout unit, and as such have control over the administration of the unit operations as long as they stay within BSA Policy. How funds are raised is controlled by the BSA, however how the profits are distributed is in the hands of the the chartered organization and the committee that they approved. I still believe that a mature meeting with the committee will get the results that are fair to your son and the scout unit. Best of Luck Bob White

Hey JPS, I'm a graduate of the Calumet Council, Peace Pipe District, back in the 60s and early 70s. My family is still in Cal City. Welcome neighbor, Bob White

eagle90, I'd think twice about the Kankakee this weekend. We just cancelled a trip on the Mackinaw for this weekend. With all the rain we've had here and more coming tomorrow and Saturday not only are waters high and fast but there is a lot of debris in there that could pose a real hazard. Bob White

I agree with sctmom. The tradition goes back decades to when the bobcat was a joining pin not a rank badge. The new cub(Tigers did not exist at that time) would get the Bobcat pinned to his new uniform shirt upside down. Once the cub did his first good deed (a helpful act without expecting or accepting a reward) for another person, he would get to turn the pin right-side-up. Now that it's a rank badge it's not quite the same. I have seen troops continue the tradition by using a safety pin to hang the badge upside down until the good deed is done and the badge is sewn on right-side-up. This is not required to do however and the badge can be sewn on correctly from the start. Whatever you do DON'T turn the boy upside down to present the badge. This is a stunt done by some units that is expressly forbidden by the BSA. Bob White

Quixote, I recommend you read all the applicable portions of The Guide to Safe Scouting. http://www.scouting.org/cgi/gss/viewall.pl Bob White

ScoutParent, I agree that the this is an unfortunate situation for your family. I believe the troop could have handled this much better. You need to go the the troop committee meeeting and present your situation. The meeting is open to all parents. They should have given you a set of rules if they had any when you joined and certainly once you had money in an account. Good Luck, Bob White P.S. It is unlikely to find a commissioner at the scout office unless you both just happen to visit at the same time. All commissioners are volunteers and do not keep hours at the scout office. You should however be able to get a phone number for your District Commissioner from the office.

The District Finance committee? How did they get involved? Their job is to raise funds for the council through FOS and special fundraising events. Quite honestly your mailman would have been as much help (maybe more). When you said the district was involved I presumed you meant your District or Unit Commissioner was going to talk to the committee. Did you try any of the things we recommended? Asking for a written unit policy? Talking one-on-one with the Committee Chair, or to the Charter Organization Representative? What did they say? Keep in mind as I mentioned in my first post the Chater Org. has all the control of finances, if the committee and the Charter rep say no, then it's no. You can keep fighting as cjmiam suggests but all you will do is waste a lot of time and raise your blood pressure. This is one of those times when you catch more flies with honey. Now that you've escalated things to the district and the Pastor, you have probably poisoned the situation beyond repair. Bob

Your council service center has two large, brightly colored posters of the Law of the Pack and the Cub Promise that only cost $2 each. I would get those to decorate your meeting room and to help the boys to learn them. Incorportate The Promise and Law of the Pack into opening and closing ceremonies at Den and Pack meetings. Take each oath one line at a time and discuss their meaning with the cubs so that it becomes more personal to them then just repeating the words. Best of Luck, Bob White

I hate to be the lone skeptic in the crowd, and I do support your efforts to do a good job for the boys Coffee Lady, alot of what I'm reading just doesn't ring true. I admit that a big problem in communicating through posts is the handicap of not being able to hear voices, and get more detailed information instantly. It doesn't make any sense to me that any District Executive (I'm guessing thats who you refer to as the Executive Director) or any District Commissoner (perhaps that's who you mean instead of Camp Commissioner) would want to or even try to disband a troop. They (the professionals and District Commissioner and District Chairperson) are evaluated based on unit growth. To disband a unit is self-defeating and creates far more work for the professional than any possible benefit it would garner. In addition, as others have stated, unless the Chartered Organization has violated a major BSA policy, the council would never even consider disbanding a scout unit. I cannot believe that this is their intention. As far as the Mall Show goes, I would hope that from all the training you have taken you would realize that district events are operated by the District Committee. You mention going to Roundtables but are you also in attendance at District meetings? I'm not suggesting you should be, I'm saying that such events are discussed there and assignments are delegated there. For all we know that event was already in the planning stages and staffed before you ever made the recommmendation. Again, we just don't know. Another thing you wrote that concerns me is "I am there only to assist and guide them on the BSA rules and guidelines". If you have been to Wood Badge you should know that is nowhere near what you "are only there to do". I don't know anywhere in the the BSA training where that is ever even suggested. I'm not saying that the situation you are in is right or wrong. I'm saying that the information you have shared is so unique and unusual that it raises more questions than answers. By the way one more question. What is a Key 7? Whatever the situation is in your area I hope it is resolved to the best interest of the boys and the community. Bob White

No Ed, You are verifying that the scout meets any prerequisites as listed in the merit badge book, and that he has the name of a registered merit badge counselor. Read page 187 of the Boy Scout Handbook. You approve only in the sense that they meet the prerequisites and that they have a qualified MB counselor. The scout cannot begin meeting with the counselor until they obtain the blue card. It is not as if you can determine whether or not they are "ready" age wise or maturity wise. Bob (This message has been edited by Bob White)

smaster101, I'll make two suggestions that might help you out. First at your next Court of Honor, talk to the parents and your scouts about "Duty to God" and how that is a basic component of scouting. Admit to the familis that religion altho personal in many ways is also celebrated and shared within a community. That community can take many forms. It can be within an organized church, within a family or displayed by a persons behavior in a community. In scouts we look for ways to fulfill our responsibilities to God through our service to others, through respecting our bodies and our minds and on occassion in forms of worship. We ask for the parents support in all these actions. There will be occasions at troop meetings on campouts and at special events that the scouts will have the opportunity to attend religious services, some specific to their chosen religion and some "all faith services". We ask for the parents to support our troops participation in these activities and understant that unless we have specific instructions saying otherwise from the parents we will expect ALL scouts and leaders to participate in these activities. Second..One reason boys don't participate is due to their comfort level. You can help with this by not waiting for summer camp or a Camporee to have a religious service. Start troop meetings off with a prayer from your Troop Chaplain's Aid, Use the available scout religious resources to do simple ceremonies on campouts, encourage scouts to work toward their religious awards. Make duty to god a weekly part of your program. Do your best, and remember you have a responsibility to try and reach every boy in troop... but that doesn't mean they all accept it. I hope this helps, Bob White