Bob White

As far as how much is too much that can't be answered from out in cyber land. You will need to determine that on a case by case basis. do what is fairest for the scout. Looking outside the parents of the troop for committee members. Perfect world or not the Board must be made of committee members (except for the Eagle Board). Aged out eaagles is OK as long as they are 21 years of age or older so that they can register as a committee member. Bob White

The ticket is a plan for the future. It is a set of personal goals you set for yourself. It is based on the skills you will learn at Wood Badge that you will use to make a difference in your life, your job in scouting and scouting as a whole. Until you experience the lessons of Wood Badge you will not be able to begin. It is not something you want to have predetermined before your instruction. Have a great time. Bob White

wrhatfield, That is the big obstacle of bulletin boards, it's one dimensional. We only know what we read and it is often difficult to determine intention. I'm glad you did not mean to write "your troop". I am confused as to how our understanding of the methods ar similar however. Your outline is opposite of mine. You have the activities and assignments flowing from the Scoutmaster to the patrol members as opposed to flowing from the patrol members down to the Senior Patrol Leader. Which method did you mean to say you learned at Wood Badge? Bob

slontwovvy, I still don't have an answer to the question, did have a job and not doit, or did he not have a job? The thirt hours you propose is still a measurement you are adding to the requirement and it is a violation of BSA policies. No mater how minimal it may seem it is not allowed. The rquirements ofr most troop positions are outlioned in the SM handbook, and the Senior patrol Leader handbook. They should be shared with the scout and agreed to before he begins serving in the office. The scout will know when he has or hasn't done his job if the goals are clear, specific and shared in advance. Tell the Board how you see it and let them talk to the scout. An Eagle Board with a district advancement representative can make the decision. Bob White

slontwovvy, Once the Eagle project has been approved and completed it is not your decision to accept or refuse it. In addition the BSA advancemnt policies do not allow you or any individual or unit to add or subtract from the requirements. The minimum 30 hours you are suggesting would violate the advancement regulations. If he has not held a leadership position since becoming life, the question has to be asked, Why? Did he refuse an office? Was he not offered an office? If he was elected or appointed and refused to serve or did not serve that is one thing, but if he was not offered leadership, that is not his fault. The SM is responsible for knowing the needs of every scout, including what they need to advance. The scout should have been offered a leadership project with clear goals and expectations, and the training and resources needed to do the task. If he was not, then it was not his failure. My recommendation is tell the Board of review how you feel, then let the scout be reviewed and present his evidence of service. It is the Board's task to determine readiness to advance. Bob White

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OGE, I have taken Wood Badge 4 times, the last 3 times on staff (there are alot of scouters who have staffed far more often) being on staff isn't much different than being a participant, you go to all the same classes and you write a new ticket every course. I was also a contributing writer to Wood Badge for the 21st Century. (You get a fourth bead when you are a course director. I've had the opportunity but it always came at an inopportune time. However I like your idea of getting them the second time around) I would also recommend reading Kenneth Blanchard's books to enhance your leadership skills. I would add my two favorites "Leadership and the One Minute Manager and for commissioners "The One Minute Manager Meets the Monkey". These are excellent reads at about 130 pages each, every page a gem! wrhatfield, As far as my experiences at WB they are very different from yours. As an example, you said "You the SM consult with the SPL on what you would like to do in your Troop". One of the most important things I learned in Wood Badge is it's not my Troop. It is the troop I serve, the troop belongs to the charter organization. The troop does not do what I want, the troop does the activities the boys want. They know the type and purpose of the activties they need to plan because we trained together. The next most important thing I learned in Wood Badge is that as the Scoutmaster I have two primary responsibilities. 1)To train the junior leaders. 2)To know the needs and characteristics of everyone in the troop. I also learned that the better I do the first one, the more time I have to do the second one. We also see the the management flow of the troop differently. Wood Badge taught me this... The patrols know, from the annual plan they made, what the theme of next months program will be. During patrol meetings they get information from their members on what they want to do that month as far as meeting activities, outdoor activities, service projects and troop meeting activities such as ceremonies, games and skill instructions. The Patrol Leader brings those ideas to the monthly Patrol Leaders Council meeting which is chaired by the Senior Patrol Leader. There they pool their ideas, make a written plan and communicate it back to the patrol members. Prior to the troop meetings the Senior Patrol Leader or his assistants contact the Patrol Leaders to make sure they are ready to do their chosen tasks. The Senior Patrol Leader MCs the troop meeting to keep things on schedule. As the Scoutmaster my job is to teach the junior leaders the skills of leadership needed to run their meetings and motivate their groups to work together. At troop meetings I meet with the Senior Patrol Leader a few minutes before the meeting to make sure he has his plan. I meet with him after the meeting to help him evaluate the meeting to make the next one as good or better, and we do a quick review of next weeks meeting. I also give the Scoutmasters Minute at the end of the troop meeting. What am I doing with all that free time? I am watching. I look at each scout and how they are doing. Are they using good leadership skills, good scout skills, are they fitting in, are they following the scout law, are they prepared? I make notes that I use when I train, when I do a SM conference, when I need to counsel a parent or talk to the committee chair. Thats what I learned at Wood Badge along with some outdoor skills 22 years ago. You will see when you look at todays SM Handbook, SM Leader Specific Training, Wood Badge, Patrol Leaders handbook or Senior Patrol Leaders handbook that nothing has changed. That is still the method taught by the BSA. I hope this helps, Bob White(This message has been edited by Bob White)(This message has been edited by Bob White)

As human beings we all carry some baggage of experiences with us that we use to make decisions. not that it is always a bad thing to have, but at times we allow those experiences to make decisions for us before we hear the evidence. (NJ and some of the lawyers on this board can speak more eloquently on that) A Board of review needs to be as neutral as possible to let the scout's deeds and experiences give evidence of his advancement and growth. Choosing a good Board is like choosing a good jury. I would think you want people whose minds are not made up, but who have minds. for that reason you cannot have Parents or Scoutmasters or asst.SM. ask the questions. They are too close to the candidate. Bob White(This message has been edited by Bob White)

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dan, Do not judge Wood Badge by one person's experience. Talk to people you know who have been to WB. Granted the new course is different form last year, but last year was a little different from 5 years ago, and so on back through the evolution of the course. I took my first Wood Badge in 1980 and have served on numerous staffs. The courses I have been to were very little like the one that wrhatfield describes. I think you will find Wood Badge for the 21st Century to be an excellent experience. Remember what you get out of it depends partly on the attitude you bring into it. (and yes you will get an opportunity to experience the patrol method. have fun, learn lots, Bob White

I apologize if it sounded like gamesmanship NJ, that was not my intent. If I understood your post, you were saying that some people think that district and council volunteers and professionals focus on numbers, and I agreed, I think they do. I just don't see it as a negative. They focus on numbers so that the unit leaders can focus on program. It is the growth in the measurable areas of membership, manpower and money that helps keep the movement moving. I don't think its bad that people think of us as being growth oriented, I just wish more unit volunteers realized that that was a good thing. Believe me no harm was intended. Bob White

1. Duct tape fixes almost everything Wrap some arond the outside of your water bottles. 2. There is no such thing as too good a sleeping pad, too good a pair of hiking boots, too dry a rain jacket, too light a pack. 3. No matter how bad you feel in the morning start wallking, you will start feeling better once you start moving. 4. It's not a race, go fast enough to get where you need to be and slow enough to appreciate where you've been. 5. Take care of each other. Your memories will be as much about your crew as your journey. 6. Sleep when it's time to sleep. 7. Drink water. Most health problems are related to dehydration. 8. Take care of your feet. Have well broken in boots, wear 2-pairs of socks, put on fresh socks during the day, treat irratations early, before they become blisters (mole skin). 9. Have fun, it's one of the prettiest places on God's earth. 10. Beware of any food that has the word "bar" in its description. (my personal opinion) Bob White(This message has been edited by Bob White)

1. Convince the troops in your area to cross Webelos over in February so that they have a few weekend campouts under their belts before they go to summer camp. 2. At summer camp keep them active, fed, and well rested. 3. Talk to each boy every day, check their health, their attitude, take an interest in their activities and tell them what a great job they are doing. 4 Make sure thay drink lots of water (among other things it will help prevent muscle cramps), and make sure they are using sun block. (a case of sun burn can ruin a week of camp quickly). My experience has been that home sickness is usually caused from being sick of camp or ill prepared for camp, not from being away from home. hope this helps, Bob White

Yes, I recommend you get the Committee Chair to put together committees and get a web site going. As Cubmaster concentrate on the quality of the monthly pack meeting, recruiting, enthusing and inspiring den leaders, and planning and carrying out an annual plan. You are the program leader, the committee chair the administrative leader. Together you work as one to make the pack program work for the boys. Best of luck. I found my time as Cubmaster to be some of the greatest fun I had in scouting. Bob White PS Go to training ASAP, it will be a big help to you.

You are right NJ, what is uppermost on the minds of scouters outside of unit scouting is the growth of the program. Bringing the scouting movement to more scouts every year. That takes more units, more activities, more volunteers, more new boys recruited and more money raised. Thats what we do as district and council volunteers. It is no more and no less important to scouting than the work done at the unit level. Bob White

The goal of wood badge is to help you develop as a leader, not just as a scout leader. For it to focus on some of the subjects you suggest would make the course irrelavent to other program leaders in the course. Good leaderskills can be used in any program, in or out of scouting. Wood Badge is designed to give you that strong structure which you can then use in a variety of settings. Many of the topics you mention are alreday a part of Scoutmaster Leader Specific Training which was a prerequesite to attending Wood Badge, and in the The Scoutmaster Handbook and the various levels of Junior Leader Training. Bob White

Johnmbowen, Your posts suggest that the BSA requires scouts to be in uniform all the time, they don't. It also suggests that the dress uniform shirt is the only shirt that the BSA says can be worn with the uniform, it isn't and they don't. You can look in almost any Boys' Life and see scouts not in uniform (check out 'Get a Rope' in the June 2002 issue. You have always been allowed to wear clothing that fits the activity and your environment All the BSA says is that if you are in uniform, be in the whole uniform. Units who wear nothing but the dress uniform in everything they do, do so by their own choice or tradition, not at the instruction of the BSA. Bob White

WA_Scoutmaster, Great job. Exactly as the Scout handbook, SM handbook and scout leader training teaches how to do it. The only difference is in the labels. The scout handbooks call them new Scout patrols, Regular patrols, and Venture patrols. It's no surprise that it is working for you. Bob White

OGE is pretty near right on the money! Bob white

Fundraising policies of the BSA require that a service be performed or a physical product be sold. The fundraiser you describe does not meet the criteria of the BSA. You would be violating the BSA's trademark rights and it could result in a lawsuit against your charter organization and individuals on the committee.

suzdvm, You have recieved some good advice here to keep the boys in cub scouts until February. I caution you against treating them as Boy Scouts or working on Boy Scout requirements other than the Scout Badge requirements. They are not Boy Scouts yet, and you are not trained to teach scout skills or patrol or troop operation. Stick to what they are and what your training is. Otherwise you could do far more harm than good. (by the way you need Webelos Leader Outdoor Training to take them camping not BALOO) Bob White

suzdvm, This error cannot be put in the council's lap. You and the pack advancement chair are the ones responsible for signing off on their requirements before they actually completed the requirements. You need to what is in the best interest of the boys. Sending them to Boy Scouts at this time would be like sending them to high school as a ten year old. Although some boys may be mentally prepared for the lessons you cannot overlook their developmental readiness. The BSA has spent years studying the developmental growth of boys and feel that fourth graders today are not ready for the troop program.(This message has been edited by Bob White)

Wow! Good catch sctmom. I too looked only at the Boy Scout requirements at first. Sctmom is correct these scouts have not met the Arrow of Light requirement unless they are 10 1/2 or are out of the 4th grade for 6 months. these boys should not have gotten AOL until February. That leads to what I was originally writing on this string that the Webelos program is an 18-month to 2-year program to give the boys a chance to learn the remaining cub skills and begin learning Boy scout skills. By rushing them through Webelos they have a greatly reduced chance of lasting the first year iin a scout troop. They need this next 6-months to reach the needed size and maturity. Sending them to a troop at this early stage of development would not be a plus. I recommend you sit down with the parents and explain the error in advancing them prematurely. I would continue to work with them in a Webelos two program until the appropriate time to advence. OR make sure they go to a troop that uses the NEW SCOUT PATROL method religiously with these boys. If you mainstream them into a regular patrol they will not last a year. Bob White (This message has been edited by Bob White)(This message has been edited by Bob White)

When I was a Scoutmaster I coached the parents to keep converstaions positive before the scout leaves for camp. Don't say " I hope it's not too hot", or "I hope you don't get poison ivy", or " try not to miss us". Instead say "you're going to have such a great time", and "I can't wait to hear about all your adventures", "take lots of pictures", "you're going to have so much fun". I have found the biggest way to avoid homesickness is to make sure they stay active and make sure they get lots of sleep. Exhaustion and boredom are what cause homesickness. We tell the boys to work on whatever merit badges interest them. As long as they meet pre-requisites we don't care which ones they work on. I do like to see first year scouts work on two. Summercamp should be fun, go swimming, shoot bows and rifles, take out a canoe, sit around a campfire, make friends. If you want to take advantage of advancement opportunities thats great. We don't push them to do anything other than go and have fun. Because of that we rarely have a homesick scout and they average 4 MBs per scout, which is plenty. Bob White

OOPS! your right NJ it is an option, but as to the original post the answer is the same, for the awards to fit on the belt you need to wwear the blue belt with the Webelos buckle. Bob