Bob White

It is a great topic for discussion but just to warn you.. don't expect co-ed scouting to take place other than in the Venturing program. We posed the question to a blue ribbon panel from the National program and the answer was a resounding...not gonna happen. The reason given..the Girl Scout program and the BSA have a long history together they do what they do and we do what we do and we are not going to intrude on their program base. Just thought you might want to know. Bob White

There is no need to notify the commissioner. The Charter organization is the ultimate authority in this manner. The council will not, does not want to, and does not have the authority, to impose itself on the decision of the charter organization in such a matter. Also the fewer people you invlove the better for the confidentiality of the family.

Wanting to ban the parent and keep the child is a nice thought but not possible in the BSA. We cannot restrict a custodial parent or legal guardian from any activity. Youth protection rules prohibit such a ban and rightly so. It's wonderful to think that scouting can cure all evils, but it can't. We are not a group of trained therapists, and this child needs one. If your goal is to help the boy, then convince the parents to get him the help he needs. Bob White

I have always encouraged any parent or legal guardian who wanted to come on an outing to come. Scouting is a family program and some lifetime memories and relationships can be developed during a scout outing. You are right about the boys needing to be in control. The adults have their own campsite, do their own cooking and are taught by the troop leadership to stay out of the management of the patrols and troop. They are there to relax, enjoy the outdoors, watch their sons develop and share moments around the campfire. We often have about 2 adults for every 6 scouts. Bob White(This message has been edited by Bob White)

As far as the adult that ran the Eagle project...someone present at the project should have taken dad aside and counseled him that the leadership needs to come from the scout. Had he been warned that his interference could jeordize the validity of the project he probably would have backed off. If he continued to interfere, at least he was warned and could not claim surprise when the district advancement committee refuses the project.

Tim, In looking back i realize the question I answered was not the question you were asking! Old Timers Disease strikes again. sorry for the confusion. What each person wears in the way of personal awards and recognitions very greatly between individuals and occassions. I usually wear a very minimal uniform in both troop and district positions. I always were my training strip and Wood Badge beads to promote the availability and importance of training. The shirts I have with my knots and other awards I save for Courts of Honor, and dinners (or when my other shirts are in the laundry). Bob

FScouter, In response to your question...different committees vote on different things. The important thing to know is that they don't need to vote on anything at all. nowhere in the troop committeee operations guide or in the training materials for troop and pack committees does it say that a committee operates by majority rule. The recommended method of operation is that the committee chair (through cooperation with the Cubmaster or Scoutmaster) makes assignments to committee members who complete the tasks and report back at the monthly committee meetings. As you correctly point out, in a troop situation decisions are made by the Patrol Leaders Council, the responsibility of the committee is to help support those decisions. Individual committees can choose to wade through parlimentary procedures,, but it is far less efficient and creates longer meetings. Bob White

This is a family that needs real professional medical help. The mother makes verbal threats of physical violence, the boy shows extreme cruelty to animals (one of the early warning signs of a dangerously violent individual). These people do not have a normal home life. Scouting may be able to help the scout but not without professional counseling to go along with it. I would bring the parent or parents before the committee and tell them that the abuse exhibited by parent and child are beyond the scope of scouting and normal accepted behavior, and that until both seek professional counseling they will be unable to participate in the scouting program. Your responsibility to the safety of the other youth members and adult volunteers outweigh the wants of a single family. Bob White(This message has been edited by Bob White)

maddoro, you will want to get a completed transfer form from the troop you are leaving. It will contain your sons advancement history and be signed by the scoutmaster. You will give the new troop scoutmaster the transfer form and a youth member application. The cost to transfer is, I believe, $1, provided you have a current membership. The new unit might be curious as to why you have chosen to transfer, and they could request a written explaination. The BSA does not require one, but that does not restrict the Charter Organization from requesting one. Bob White(This message has been edited by Bob White)

Troop meetings are every Monday from 7 p.m. to 8:30 p.m. Ed. Visitors are always welcome. I'm the assistant scoutmaster for the New Scout Patrols and have been for years, I was also a Scoutmaster for several years and a Cubmaster for a few years as well. So I not only know the program but I use it on a weekly basis. So much for the "he only knows the program but doesn't use it in real life" theory. As I posted to you before Ed, I do not expect you to change. My concern is for the other posters who are new to the program or are trying to do a better job. They need to hear that the Scouting program they read in their resources and learn about in training, works. There is no need to do it someone elses way, when they can do it "the scouting way".

Ed, You amaze me. The First Class Emphasis program is on page 119 of the Scoutmaster handbook, and in the opening pages of the Boy Scout Handbook, and in Scoutmaster/Asst. Scoutmaster Leader Specific Training. It is also a key goal of the New Scout Patrol element of the patrol method, which is described in the Boy Scout Handbook, The Scoutmaster Handbook, the Patrol Leaders, and the Senior Patrol Leaders Handbooks, as well as in Scoutmaster Leader Specific Training. There is a tracking sheet to administrate it, a special certificate to recognize scouts who achieve it, and a leadership position specifide to supervise it. It has been a part of the program for over a dozen years. Ed, there was once a man who found himself in the middle of a great flood. The police came down his street and told him he needed to leave, but the man said "God will save me". The National Guard came in a boat when his house was flooding and asked him to get in the boat to be taken to safety, but the man felt he was a good and religious man and said "No, God will save me". The depth of the water forced him to the roof where a News helicopter hovered and offered him a ride to dry land, but the man was so sure that he was doing right and waiting to be saved refused the ride and the helicopter flew away. Within a short time the water overtook the house and the man was swept away in the current. As he was breathing his last breath he looked to the sky and asked, "Why God, did you ignore me, I've always tried to do what was right, why didn't you save me?"!...The storm clouds parted and a voice from heaven said..."I sent a squad car, a boat and a helicopter, what the heck were you waiting for?" Ed, Scouting has given you manuals, training and other resources all supporting the New Scout Patrol and First Class Emphasis. What the heck are you waiting for?!

Just as the tenure of an adult volunteer at the unit level is determined by the the Charter Organization, so is the tenure of district and council volunteers. The way to effect change is to get your COR to represent your unit and their needs at the district and council committees where they are the voting members. Until then you leave it to the DEs to counsel selection committees into the nedded direction. Anything else would literally require an act of congress. Bob White

Ed, Where is this written as an optional program?

eisley and twocubdad, I agree there seem to be some inconsistencies in how the COR is refered to in the Troop Committee guide. The says the COR is the "head of the scouting department" then puts him in the District committee but not in the troop committee, puts him/her on the charter with a scouting title (COR) and allows him to dual register on the troop committee. It seems redundant to me. As far as the notion that limiting people to doing one job within a unit is the kiss of death, I don't buy it. I have never seen a pack whose problem was that they had too many registered leaders. I have seen a lot of packs that failed because of lack of help. When you have people playing hatracks it causes problems. Burn-out causes premature loss of leaders and then others are unwilling to pitch in because they saw how overworked the person was and how miserable they were. It also creates dynastys and egomaniacs. Now that's the kiss of death! One person one job in a unit makes sense and builds stronger units. Just my experience, Bob White

denver4und@aol.com, Sorry Jim, I have to disagree. The instructions for rechartering that the councils recieve in writing from national say "one person-one job". the only exception listed is for the charter organization rep, who can also be listed as a committee member. (which makes no sense to me because as the COR they are already a member of the committee). I grant that the terms unit leader and adult volunteer and registered adult are often tossed about interchangably in the GTSS, but according to the charter documents from the BSA it's one person has one job within a single unit. Bob

"We have alot of adult interest - maybe too much - and each with their own agenda." I suggest start with the adult leadership problem. If the adults do not model the ability to work as a team, then the scouts will not do it either. Bob White

"1. If he was elected or appointed to a leadership position and held it for 6 months it counts whether he did anything or not" A note to anyone who feels this is what the requirement states, Please read the handbook again. The requirement is not to hold an office. The requirement says to "serve actively". There is a distinct difference. Bob White

eisely is correct. Bob

Hi scoutmaster 424, Good catch. I agree taht that seems to be an exception. That you for your concern, all is fine. The family and I took an extended vacation on our way to Philmont Training Center. Oklahoma City; Amarillo, Texas; Sante Fe, NM; Philmont and home again. We were gone 18 days. A great time was had by all. Bob White

Subject: Boy Scout Memorial Year: 1964 Sculptor: Donald DeLue Location: White House ( E Street & 15th ) The memorial stands on the site of the First Boy Scout Jamboree in 1937. The two nearly naked figures represent Manhood and Womanhood; the realistic Boy Scout is leading them into the future. Next to the statue is a pool which bears the inscription: "In grateful tribute to the men and women whose generosity, devotion, and leadership have brought Scouting to the nation's youth and to honor all members of the Boy Scouts of America who in days of peace and times of peril have done their duty to God and their country this memorial was authorized by the Congress of the United States and erected in recognition of the fiftieth anniverary of the Boy Scouts of America." The Boy Scout oath is engraved on the pedestal of the statue. Hope this helps, bob

District Chairpersons are chosen by a selection committee and accepted or rejected by the voting members of the District Committee. Those voting members consist of Charter Organization Representatives, and District members-at-large (who by the way are also chosen by the selection committee). The typical length or office is one year, after which the selection committee may ask the District Chairperson to return or may select a new candidate. Total length of service is at the pleasure of the selection committee and the voting members. The Council President works the same way onnly by vote of the members of the council committee. Sub committee chairs at the council and district level serve at the pleasure of the council and district chairperson. The exception to all this is the commissioner staff. The District Commissioner is selected by the nominating committee and approved by the Council Commissioner. The Council Commissioner is selected by a nominating committee and in most cases approved by the Council President and the Scout Executive. ADCs and Unit Commissioners are selected and approved by the District Commissioner and serve one year at a time. The Rountable Commissioners are selected by the District Commissioner and are usually approved by the Council Commissioner. Roundtable staff are selected and approved by the District Roundtable Commissioner for the specific program they serve. Bob White

The most important thing to remember is that the purpose of the BOR is to examine the character growth and goals of the candidate, not to retest skills. Ask how scouting has affected their life. What do they see as their duty to others? How does their duty to God play a role in their life? What do they plan to do in the future to be of benefit to their community. What is their next challenge and what plans have they made to succeed at it. They have sworn many times to do their duty to their country what have they done to keep that promise? It's not whether or not they can tie a bowline that makes them an Eagle, it is their understanding of the importance of character and responsibility that makes them Eagles. Sometimes they come to the board with that understanding. You have the opportunity to make sure that they leave with it. Bob White

Pardon me, point of order Mr or Madam Chairperson.... I agree that scouts need training in etiquette, (and if the unit leaders aren't setting the example then shame on the people that selected and approved them) however Merit Badges are to expose scouts to hobbies, careers and recreational activities. I would offer that etiquette is a skill and that including it as a skill requirement for a rank advancement would be more applicable. Thank you, Bob White

Hi Laura, I'm curious, When you say that you have other problems you are dealing with, is the attitude of the adult leaders one of those problems? Often times when the scouts do not have positive, interested leaders these kinds of problems develop. I'd be interested in you insight as to the current ability of your leaders to set a strong, positive tone in the troop. Just curious, Bob White

Final update, I met with the Director of Boy Scout Advancement last week at Philmont. He has tried to find the original statistics used several years ago when the First Class Emphasis program was introduced. Neither his department or the Boy Scout's office of statistics has been able to find the original numbers. He made the point, and correctly, that the lack of statistics does not invalidate the program. Over the years the program has proven itself within the units who use it. Those units who use new scout patrols and first class emphasis see a direct and positive connection to the long term tenure of the scout and the retention of new scouts. If anyone wants to ignore First Class emphasis do to the lack of numbers it really doesn't matter. They would have ignored it anyway. The statistics, or lack of them, merely make it more convenient for them to ignore the BSA program that we promise to the boys. If current statistics were the only determination of our program then we would have dropped the Eagle Rank ages ago. Currently over 95% of scouts never achieve the Eagle Rank. We continue to have it because we know the impact that it has on the scouts that achieve it. We have the First Class Emphasis program for the same reason. Respectfully submitted, Bob White