Bob White

Ed, I didn't forget it. Fun is what happens from doing the things listed . If a boy is camping, advancing, making his own choices and doing hands on activities he'll be having fun. Fun is not an activity. It is a feeling brought about by activities. Bob White(This message has been edited by Bob White)

Just as there are common elements in successful units there are also common traits of units in trouble. Maybe these sound familiar to you in your unit, I hope not. rarely will you only find one of these traits alone. Bob White > Leaders are not trained > Scoutmaster runs the committee > Most parents are unwilling to help (think about it, its not that they don't want to work with their children.) > Leadership distain for district, council, and professional scouters. > Troop meetings are merit badge classes > They don't get outside once a month > They don't have quarterly Courts of Honor > SM doesn't train junior leaders > New scouts do not advance to First Class near the first year > greater than 10% drop off rate > Poor troop meeting attendance > Adults cook for scouts at campouts > Scouts are punished by unit leaders > Adults hollering at boys > SM who doesn't trust the boys to elect their own leaders > No monthly Patrol Leaders Council meetings > Leaders do not follow the policies of the Guide to safe scouting, Advancement or Uniforming.

I am posting this here to possible help new scouters get the troop going on the right path. These are personal observations from years of working with hundreds of troops develop strong scouting programs. I hope they will help you evaluate where the troop you serve is functioning and where it can improve. Tis board would be a good tool to help you change for the better, but the resources of the BSA are probably your greatest source of scouting methods and information. Hope this helps, Bob White Some Common Traits of Successful Troops Currently trained adults Leaders wear correct uniform Scoutmaster concentrates on training Junior Leaders, and knowing the needs and characteristics of each scout. They use the Patrol Method for everything They follow the contents of the Boy Scout Handbook The committee supports the decision of the scouts, they dont make decisions for them. They have at least 2 Assistant Scoutmasters They recognize scouts 3 times for every advancement They DONT use troop meetings as merit badge classes. They plan everything in advance and put it in writing (The difference between a wish and a plan is a plan is written down) The only rules they have are that scouts and leaders follow the Scout Oath and Law. They get outdoors once a month (even if just for a day event) Troop meetings are filled with hands on activities New scouts make First Class, First Year They keep in contact with Webelos Dens year round They select leaders they dont recruit them. They participate in District and Council events They attend Roundtable Adults smile and play nice together. (If you are not enjoying yourself then neither are the scouts.)

Here are some elements I have seen exist in packs that have teriffic programs. These are the packs that recruit and retain Cubs in large numbers and have 1/3 or more of the families involved as volunteers. I thought it might help packs that are looking for ways to improve or want to have a measuring tool to see how they are doing administratively. Hope it helps, Bob White They have Trained, Uniformed Leaders. Everybody smiles and plays nice together. They: Think Big..Have a Plan.. Put it in writing. They sell popcorn. They use ceremonies. They keep the parents informed Den and Pack Newsletters and a printed calendar They select specific people to do specific jobs They control the length of meetings. They have the Den Leaders meet separately from the committee They start and end all meetings on time. They remember that Cub Scouts learn by doing. This is a hands-on program. They attend The monthly Cub Scout Roundtable

hi hskydg, I will have to check my old handbooks to be sure, but as I remember there were a few requirement changes that shifted the emphasis from home safety toward more first aid. The Green safety cross changed to the red first aid cross. I'll see if I can find the edition it changed in. Bob White

I welcome others opinions but remember, I have already agreed there are occasional exceptions. My point has been when you are losing members in the kinds of numbers that have been discussed here, 40 to 50% and greater on a regular basis, that is a red flag that there are serious problems in that units program. Bob(This message has been edited by Bob White)

Y, in order to earn their Second and First Class Ranks the scouts had to learn how to use a compass and how to find directions day or night without a compass. In fact the New Scout Patrols in my son's troop learned these skills last weekend. What might surprise you even more is that, since all of our older scouts were at the Northern Tier High Adventure Base, I taught the scouts those skills. If the batteries ever go dead, should they ever own a GPS, I am confident they will be just fine. But more importantly they spent the weekend... >outoors hiking and camping= personal fitness >as patrols under youth elected leaders=Citizenship >with Adult Role models=Character development >in uniform when appropriate=Character and citizenship development >advancing=Character development >behaving according to the oath and law=Character development It's not that they came back being able to find a compass bearing that makes it scouting. It's coming back with growth in character citizenship and fitness. The compass skills, are tools not goals. A thief who can find his way with a compass is not a good scout. A neighbor you can depend on, that helps the community but doesn't know declination, is a good scout. I'm told my neighbors see me as a good scout. I'm really not concerned how you see me. Happy Scouting, Bob White(This message has been edited by Bob White)

But Ed, if the packs in a community keep lots of boys for 3 1/2 years, and they join a troop and half leave the first year it's not conflicting activitites. It's the same schools, the same community, the same program choices they had as cubs. In addition not all the troops in the community lose half their scouts. So what's the difference. Program! If you have a scout that earned his Arrow of Light, joins a troop and quits in less than 1 year, it's not that he doesn't like scouting. The problem is that the troop he joins isn't scouting. Are there exceptions, sure, but if I put money on it being the delivery of the scouting program I would win more often than not. Boys don't leave scouting, boys leave when they don't get scouting. Bob White (This message has been edited by Bob White)(This message has been edited by Bob White)

I live in a rural area. We are in the middle of corn country. There isn't a sport, school activity, extra curricular activity, social or community activity for scout eligible youth in your area that we don't have here. The same could be said for most rural areas in today's society. It's funny because when I was a scout and my mother was a den leader coach, she tells me that the smaller packs in our suburban town used the same excuse. This was in the 60's and several packs in our town had 40 or 50 Cubs. Our Pack had 145. As a cubmaster in a rural area in Upstate New York in the 90's we had a dozen or so packs many in the 30s and 40s. The Pack I served had over 90 and we were not the largest (we were 2nd). They to had all the activities you could find in a urban or suburban area. So its not alternate activities and its not luck, It's the strength and quality of the program you deliver, pure and simple. So you'll need to find something else to blame it on. When a units use of scout methods improve their retention improves. Bob White

Eisely, Here is the info you are looking for. http://www.angelfire.com/il3/LincolnPilgrimage/hiking.html Bob

Pepper, Since troops are run by the patrol Leaders Council it should be their option as to whether they want to set conditions on the election of the SPL, and what those conditions should be. The ASPL, according to the Boy Scout Handbook and the SPL Handbook is selected by the SPL. The answer to who can test advancement is in the SM Handbook and the Advancement Committee Policies and Procedures manual. Bob White

I have 'Follow me Boys' Bob

Yaworski, you say to use old methods, use old tools, don't grow, don't change...and you consider those "original ideas". This program is constantly adapting to a changing youth. To know and understand the scouting methods is about thinking and processing new ideas. Change takes effort and thought. Whining it seems requires little more than an ability to keyboard and Internet access. This program is developed by the input of several hundred volunteers across the country. I'm thankful you are not one of them. Bob White

Today's show is brought to you by the letter Y and the word Curmudgeon. curmudgeon Pronunciation Key (kr-mjn) n. An ill-tempered person full of resentment and stubborn notions. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- [Origin unknown.] -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- curmudgeonly adj. curmudgeonry n. Source: The American Heritage Dictionary of the English Language, Fourth Edition Copyright 2000 by Houghton Mifflin Company. Published by Houghton Mifflin Company. All rights reserved. (This message has been edited by Bob White)(This message has been edited by Bob White)

Korea Again, I didn't say to set a "policy" on attendance. I suggested that scouts consider another scouts attendance before they cast a vote. There is a big difference there. Yaworski, What was said yaworski, is that if you are losing 50% of the scouts then you are not following the program and you need to change and start using all of it. Kids don't leave a scouting program in droves. They leave programs that wear a scout uniform and don't use scouting. I have never seen a unit that used the program have a retention problem, and I have never seen a unit with a retention problem that didn't blame everyone and everything for it except their use of the methods of scouting. Bob White

Ouch Yaworski, Calling me a Smart%#@, well if that isn't the pot calling the kettle black. The point is.. none of the scout methods is called "use old things". The Three aims of scouting do not include "learn woodscraft history". The aims and methods are not dependent on the age of the tools. A troop where everyone uses a GPS can experience growth in Character, Citizenship, and Personal Fitness just as well as a person with a compass. A carpenter that uses a cordless drill/driver is no less a carpenter than the one that uses a brace. By the way you could do with a little more humor and a lot less scorn toward other peoples opinions. For a scouter, your posts lack a great deal of character development. Just an after thought, since you don't think learning about hard drives is a good use of time, who do you plan to go to when your computer needs repair...an auto mechanic perhaps? B;)B White

Fly fishing is to other types of fishing, what Skeet shooting is to target shooting with a .22 rifle. The technique, equipment, preparation, habitat, are unique. The previous fishing merit badge did not account for the vast differences between the two activities. Much the same as Bugling is separated form Music MB, and swimming from lifesaving. Bob

My son had wood shop and loved it. Of course they had to learn on those new fangled electically powered tools not them good pedal powered tools. Auto mechanics class they worked with them gulldarned computer boxes with them hardrives in em. Seems those jalopies they make today have have somethin called eelektronik components now, and you need to know bout them computer things to work on em. When I was a scout we only cooked on wood fires so you needed a good ax and had to know how to use it. Course then they hadn't invented them modern back pack stoves that they have today. Why they keep making stuff for back packing smaller and lighter than they used to be makes no sense to me. I've been tellin folks for years we gotta put a stop to this here changin'. They should leave things they way they were back when things were just fine back in the 60s, course then things were better in the 50s, my grandmother on the other hand thought they were best in the 20s..her mother disapproved of her bein a flapper and wanted things to stay the way the were in the late 1800s. I have a pal who's a history buff. he wishes for life in the early 1700s. Of course then there were the Vikings.. now they knew how to swing an ax. Yep all this changing has to stop, who wants to be in charge of making sure that happens. Bob White The goal of scouting is to prepare young people for the future through development of character, citizenship and fitness. The outdoor program and the associated skills are tools to excite a youth's sense of adventure and promote fitness they are not the learning goal of the program. You can reach the goals with modern camping tools just as you can with old ones. (This message has been edited by Bob White)

Hi KoreaScouter, Here is my door...As a SM I would not use a specific attendance figure to determine the requirement you selected. Take another look at what I wrote. "If I were a scout in a patrol I would not elect a PL who did not committ to being at 80% or more of troop and patrol activities." I left this in the hands of the individual scout to determine if the candidate understands the expectations of the patrol before he is elected. It is not my role as a SM to determine who the scouts should elect, but I do have a responsibility to train them in good decision making. As far as the underlying question...how would I evaluate the advancement requirement of "actively serve in a leadership position" I would have the scout present his evidence to me that he has been an active leader. They know if they have done their job or not. If you ask them what it means to be active and then ask if they did those things or not, they will be able to see for themselves if they fulfilled the requirement or not. They know we are not blind to what goes on, and when made to self-evaluate are usually brutally honest to themselves. Hope this answers your question. Bob White(This message has been edited by Bob White)

It sounds as if you are suggesting that at some point professionals decided to instigate these misconceptions "These attitudes had to come from some place." That would be like accusing Columbus of starting the rumor that the world was flat. Volunteers who didn't want (and don't want) to accept the responsibility for their program, made this problem and it will take volunteers to solve it. How many volunteers will you personally share the truth with? Change starts one person at a time. Will you be the person now that you know who is responsible for what and why? If you are not part of the solution then you are part of........ Think about it! Bob White(This message has been edited by Bob White)

Twocubdad, Cub Scout Wood Badge was not combined into Boy Scout Wood Badge. Wood Badge was completely restructured to serve all adult leaders. Cub Wood Badge use to be a trainer development course. Boy Scout Wood Badge was primarily an advanced leadership training for troop leaders. Wood Badge for the 21st Century is a totally different experience. It is leadership training for all adult positions in the BSA. I urge you to sign up to attend. it will be a great ewxperience and one that will have benefits that will expand even beyongd your scouting responsibilities. Bob White

Venturer2002, You would want to contact the national office and ask for a contact name for cub scout advancement. But first!!! Have you considered that the neckerchiefs were not designed to please you or others your age but for a cub scout aged boy? Perhaps you should talk to a 9 year old after he is presented his new rank and neckerchief and see how he feels of your efforts to take his neckerchief. We need to keep in mind who these elements are there for. Bob White

When would a patrol ever need to line up for chow other than at a dining hall for summer camp?

Why is our misconception their responsibility to fix?! They did not create or promote this maligning. Why can't the volunteers take responsibility for their own innappropriate actions and attitudes? You now know the truth. The local professional's job is not the quality of the program, but the continuation of the program through a growth in financial support, units, and membership. So how many scouters will you tell in the next 30 days? How will your evaluation and treatment of local professionals change. If not you, then who? If not now, then when? Bob White(This message has been edited by Bob White)

Well lets take a look at this from another POV (point of view). Let's say you work for a large non-profit corporation and your job is to find organizations to use your corporations services. Last year your company had a Christmas party and a summer bar-b-que that were run by volunteers that belonged to the organizations served by your non-profit group. The events sad to say were a flop. Some many of the participants chose to blame you as for the failure even though you were not responsible for the planning, the staffing, the agenda or the delivery of the events. Is it your job to find each person who is ill informed and change their mind. To what degree are the people blaming you responsible for asking "who was responsible". To what degree are the people who organized the events responsible for saying "it wasn't him, it was us". On top of that you want the person who... 1) You are laying blame on when it belongs to others, 2) you malign for doing the job you hired them to do 3) who you think should do our job instead of us. 4) Who spend more time each day in the scouting arena than most volunteers spend in a month 5) who you admit are mailigned by a large number of other scouters in their own communities..... to be at every event you want to see him at. Why, so we can blame him up close for things that aren't his responsibility? I've worked with scouting professionals for over 25 years and I've seen good ones and bad ones. I have seen far more good ones quit because of the personal abuse they have taken from volunteers than from being chased off by Scout Executives. We seem to think beacuse they are paid that they are paid to do everything, or that he fact they are paid gives us the right to treat them as our personal punching bags. Its time we accept the responsibility for the quality of scouting in our community and quit blaming others. Now if someone has a really tall ladder I'd like to get off my soapbox and go to lunch. Bob White