Bob White

rather than encourage them to move to an existing patrol, consider encouraging them to make their own decisions. they can join an existing patro; upon making First Class or they cna stay in their existing patrol. Also encourage the existing patrol to develop a patrol program that would entice scouts to join them and encourage them to recruit friends into the patrol from outside of scouting. Bob White

rather than encourage them to move to an existing patrol, consider encouraging them to make their own decisions. they can join an existing patro; upon making First Class or they cna stay in their existing patrol. Also encourage the existing patrol to develop a patrol program that would entice scouts to join them and encourage them to recruit friends into the patrol from outside of scouting. Bob White

Every Chartered organization at the time of their annual charter renewal process has to sign a the charter agreement. This is not the printout of adult and youth membership, this is a separate form. It lists what is called the shared responsibilities of scouting. The page has two columns. Listed in one columns are the responsibilities of the Council/District. In the other column is listed the responsibilities of the chartering organization. The head of the chartering organization or the charter organization representative must sign on behalf of the organization. A commissioner or DE sign for the BSA. The following responsibilities belong to the Chartering organization. The Chartering organization agrees to >Conduct the Scouting program according to its own policies and guidelines as well as those of the Boy Scouts of America >Include Scouting as part of its overall program for youth and adults. >Appoint a charter organization representative who is a member of the organization and will represent it to the Scouting districtand serve as a voting member of the local council. (The charter organization head or the charter organization representative must approve all leader applications) >Select a unit committee of parents and members of the charter organization (minimum of three) who will screen and select unit leaders who meet the organization's standard as well as the leadershipstandards of the BSA (The committee chairman must sign all leadership applications.) >Provide adequate facilities for the Scouting unit(s) to meet on a regular schedule with time and place reserved. >Encourage the unit to participate in outdoor experiences, which are vital elements of scouting. Hope this helps, Bob White

(This message has been edited by Bob White)

We simply had the den leaders turn in receipts as they spent the dues. along with monthly dues records. At the end of the year they took whatever money was left and had a party for the den. It worked fine. Bob White

I majored in radio and television production not typing. I would hope that inadvertent typing errors would not be open to attack. Anyone can make a typo, for instance yaworski, what is a "commonad" as in "an abysmal commonad of the English language?" ASM1 may feel I live in a box, but at least it is not a glass house. Bob White

Stressbaby, That depends on your definition of successful. Can a group be successful campers without troop meetings? Yes. Can you have a successful scouting program? No. Your SM is treating camping a a goal of scouting instead of a toll of scouting. The troop meetings are vital to scouting for the very reasons you mentioned and more. It would seem your son's group is doing things in a scout uniform, but without the uise of troop meetings and the methods of scoutinging that a troop meeting allows the boys to experience, it is not scouting. Bob White

I'm not sure what you are asking. Are you looking to try and do a troop program without troop meetings?

Hi Ed, Here is what i think, based on what little we know, and what I see as some weak reporting. If the boy joined in April as some reports say, attended summercamp camp in August, and was booted for problems connected to use of the latrines I have to ask, What did the troop do for latrines on campouts in April, May, June, And July? What steps were taken to prepare a special needs scout before he was taken for a long term trip? The scoutmaster knew the boys condition. What did he do to prepare himself and others to work with this scout? If he did not feel he or others were qualified then why did he sign the boys application form? Did he have a meeting or even talk with the mother, the den leader, the cubmaster? Did he seek any help from local medicial resources? What did he do after he accepted the scout to make every effort to provide a scouting program that met his needs? Finally why did he suddenly boot the boy out (without the authority to do so) and not go back to the parents and others to ask for help and guidance? The boy's behavior is not fully in the boys control, but the Scoutmaster's behavior is completely within his. I would have expected a trained adult to have handled this situation better from beginning to end. What did the parent do during the first 4 or 5 months to see that her son was adapting to scouting and that the SM was comfortable meeting her son's need's? Where was the communications between the mom and the SM? One of the biggest barriers to successful scouting is the inability of many adults to play nice together. Bob White

Thefrisbee/plate/washbasin is one of my favorites. I've been doing that for about 20 years. Almost every scout in the troop does it as well now. It's inexpensive, utilitarian, multi-pupose, lightweight and fun. Bob White

ASM1, It is not a PSA network, It is a PSA. the network is a goup of affiliate stations which contract to carry a core programing schedule and nationwide commercials (the BSA spot was not a network commercial, it was a national distribution). The parent company is able to charge higher ad rates because of the expanded viewership, local stations are able to afford pre-produced programs to entice viewers. The PSA, Public Service Announcement, is a commersial for a non-profit service, organization, or product, for which the station gets no income, and whose access to broadcast is mandated by the FCC. If you read my revious post I did not say they did not get a tax break, I said it was a non-issue. No station is going to put this free spot in prime time for a tax break. There are lots of less expensive ways for a corporation to get a tax break and once that revenue producing 30 seconds is gone there is no getting it back. I also did not say you could not or would not be able to use the ad. I said you needed to get permission first. Check you last post. What did I say to garner such a hostile attitude from you in your response? You say you did your homework, well I did too. I majored in this in college, and worked in radio and TV for a few years afterwards. No attack was made at you and none was needed in your reply. Bob White

slontwovvy is right, I'm embarrased thqat I allowed myself to be drawn into this insanity. I didn't like seeing OGE's son accused of this tripe and I should have just ignored it. I goofed. I will not add to, or respond to, any more of the postings in this string. Bob

The ads you are speaking of were developed by national BSA and distributed nation wide. Each station in a market is required to set aside a certain amount of airtime for the broadcast of PSAs (Public Service Announcements). Since this is a station by station, market by market choice, the run times will very greatly throughout the country. I have seen the ads in our market on weekends during the afternoon as well as at 1:30 a.m. Stations given the choice between showing a free PSA or a revenue generating commercial will choose the commercial every time. The PSA will be used as fillers when commercial time was not sold. Thats just cold hard business. There is no tax exemption thought here, TV stations and networks can get all the tax breaks they want if they hire good accountants. It's about revenue, TV stations take alot of money to run and there are alot of pockets to keep filled. If it weren't for the FCC mandating the PSA time, we might not get on at all. Local markets are even more difficult to get good air time on since revenue generating air time is at a real premium. Be careful ASM1, some of the commercials can have local council tags produced at the end, but just because they advertise scouting don't get the idea they belong to your troop. CopyRight violations is an expensive crime. You need permission to do what you propose. The most effective ad for scouting in your community is the quality of your last meeting. Bob White

Sorry for the typo. That was supposed to be ....You are actually comparing holding up a bag of urine to brandishing a gun? This is not a play on words, this is what you implied and there is no comparison between the two other than in your own contrarian discussion style. Venturer2002, I will take you at your word that you are an 18 year old Venturer and ASM. You are a very young leader and I caution you there is a lot ahead of you to learn. Choose your role models with care. Your posts show you following a very negative very unproductive course. At 18 you have just barely crossed the line from a scouting youth to an adult leader. The purpose, concepts, methods, skills are much different than those used as a scout. Before you start making decisions you should start asking questions and learning from others who use and understand correct scout methods. As Yoda would say "inexperienced you are in the way of the force, and powerful the dark side can be". Be cautious of that dark side. Bob White

Let me get this straight. You are actually holding a bag of urine to brandishing a gun? Earth to yaworski! It's time for a reality check. That's not even twisted logic cause it did't start with any logic at all. So when a camper releives himself against a tree that is the same as shooting a gun in the woods? In a previous string you said you did not have a job in scouting. I applaude your judgement on that one. Bob White

The stations are running these ads for free. They are not going to run them during high viewer times unless we pay millions of dollars.

"I don't know where you got your G2SS but mine doesn't say that waving a bag of urine and making threats is acceptable." "Oh what a wicked web we weave...." Who said anything about waving it about? He said he held it up. He displayed it he did not threaten anyone. I see how you can twist this to create a controversy based on fabricated "what ifs" but the fact is what the first scout did happened, and what you are accusing OGE's son of did not. It makes for good controversy but it lacks truth. You are correct that the G2SS does not say anything about this. The G2SS tells what behavior is unacceptable and what OGE's son did is not mentioned. I'm glad we agree. Bob White (This message has been edited by Bob White)

If OGE will allow me drannon, I would like to answer your question. No, I don't think OGE would like that, but that's not what happened is it? I mean you could build a "what if" premise into any scenario and make it come out badly. But you can't judge the event on the imaginary "what if". In comparison to the scout that made the sexually improper comments and physical contact to another scout while refusing to return the scouts property, OGE's son did not threaten any one specifically with any action. He said he knew how to use his collection bag. "I have a bag of manure for my garden and I know how to use it!" Does anyone feel particularly threatened? Unlike the other case, OGE's son did not sexually touch or bully anyone and unlike the previous case it was his own property not someone else's. If anything his son showed a very healthy mental attitude of being able to poke fun at his own medical condition. I'd be willing to bet that every boy in the room laughed, and that he laughed with him. This was humor, OK it was urine humor and if a leader chose to counsel him about it fine that is the leaders call. But this is in no way comparable to the previous encouter with the "humper" and unlike that situation, OGE's son did not violate the Youth Protection or Guide to Safe Scouting policies. Some of the posters who have responded otherwise in this string have been known to post in previous exchanges that scouters need to use common sense. Now would be a good time to try that. Bob White(This message has been edited by Bob White)

Here too, our Diocese requires any adult working with children to have their finger prints run, however they did not charge the volunteer. Bob White

Relax yaworski there was was no harm intended and certainly none done. It was like if you walked into a room and said "I have character and I'm not afraid to use it." of course the only difference is that the boy actually possessed a bag of urine. Bob White

There is a wide variety of ready made patrol medallions that the boys can choose from to represent their patrol name choice. There is a lso a blnk one they can make their own with or have one custom made. This link will show you the available patches. http://www.wildrice.com/Troop339/BSpictures/PatrolEmblems/PatrolEmblems.html Bob White

As I think I posted once before I believe that scouting is for every boy, but not every boy is for scouting. I strongly disagree with the way the scout in the article was treated and think the Scoutmaster made a number of bad decisions. I also know that we are a huge scouting movement and that we have a wide variety of leaders from all walks of life, educational, and skill backgrounds. There are hundreds and possibly thousands of leaders who are ill-fitted to deal with young people in general let alone 'special needs' scouts. A good leader in any walk of life knows their limits, their strengths and weaknesses. Had this SM let the family know when they met that he did not feel capable of providing a quality scouting experienc for the young man, maybe alternatives could have been found or family involvement secured at the get go. I don't blame the SM for not having the tools to work with this scout, I fault him for not being open about it up front and for not handling things in a more mature manner. I signed on to help develop young people in the community in the values I was raised to believe in. Those values I felt were best represented in the scouting program. I learned early on that to do the most for the most youth that I had to accept not everyone is willing to behave as a scout or accept the principles of scouting. My role is to make the message available but at some point the boy needs to choose to hear the message. I would not however remove a boy who was not a threat to the welfare of himself or others. Bob White

You have a lot of questions packed in there LauraT7, lets see if I can sort a few out. I'd like to answer your last question first. "If we break into different patrols by boy choice - how do we keep it from being a popularity / "in crowd" competition?" When you chose the friends you hung around with as a teen did you pick the people you liked and liked you or did you choose to hang with people you didn't get along with? If you could choose your own cooworkers in your department at work would you choose people you enjoyed working with and shared common interests with? I'll bet in both cases you chose to be with people you liked, and that's OK, in fact thats normal human behavior. Is there any reason that the scouts today feel any different than that, or deserve anything different than that? Next the patrol of 15 or Star Rank in a troop is already an option and is called a Venture Patrol. Your PLC can set whatever requirements they choose. Their activities are of a higher adventure and physical level than the regular patrols. I noticed you make advancement sound as if it is separate from activities..Some are highly motivated by advancement, others aren't into it as much. ...Most participate in activities ALOT - but have a wide variety of interests. Advancement should be what happens as scouts participate. If most the boys attend the activities than they should make First Class the first year if you are doing the right activities. By using the New Scout Patrol, Regular patrol and Venture patrol structure you can meet all the needs and characteristics of the scouts as they develop. After they reach first class there is a wide enough variety of MBs for the scholars and the athletes to work on. Two last thoughts, The scouts may say they don't want to do physical tests but they do it every year in Phys. Ed,. class. Have the gym teacher sign their books if they do the requirements. And finally moving an abrasive scout without addressing his character is not helping anyone especially the scout or the patrol you thrust him into. First help the scout behave like a scout. I hope this answers some of your questions. Bob White

k9gold-scout I have heard rumors of councils doing this but have not actually found one that has the time or the resourses to do so. Does your council actually run fingerprints and a background check or is it something you have heard of (this can take several weeks and usually costs far more than $10). Such action is not required by the BSA and even if a council was doing it the counselor is still not considered a registered scout volunteer, still does not have liability protection, and still is not required to have 2 adults present (just a youth or adult buddy with the learner). Bob White

You are not required by the BSA to have a second adult as a merit badge counselor. It is the scouts responsibility to have a buddy, and I would not meet with him unless he does. Bob