Bob White

I'm with Mike, # of nights camping is not as important as correct use of the scout methods and achieving the aims of scouting. Camping is just sleeping in the outdoors. It's what you do when your awake that counts. The outdoor method asks units to hold an 'outdoor' activity once a month, it doesn't say camping once a month. The quality unit award for troops asks troops conduct six highlight activities (such as hikes, campouts, trips, tours, etc.) and attend a Boy Scouts of America long term camp. That being said most the scouts in my son's troop will camp 18 to 36 nights this year. Some of the adults will be more due to participation at training courses. Bob White

Be careful not to confuse what you "feel" the scout program is with what the scout handbook says the scout program is. If what a leader "felt" determined the program we would have a thousand different programs going on, which seems to be a major part of the problem discussed on this board. There is one scouting program and it is determined by the contents of the Boy's handbooks, not the opinion of the adult volunteers. We need to stick with what scouting is and not with what we think it should be. The BSA does not require scouts to commit to troop activities at the expense of other programs. In fact scouting encorages boys to do other things. We even give them advancement awards for doing other things. Scouting is about the person you become not about perfect attendance. Also, patrol and troop meetings are year round, most other activities last a couple of months. We will still be here for the scout when wrestling season ends or little league is over. Kids need to follow their curiosity about the world around them. If they find other positive, healthy activities to experience then let them. Our job is to keep scouting so much fun that they keep coming back. If we are not offering the best show in town that's our problem as leaders, not the scout's problem. Let's put aside personal feelings and stick to the BSA program and methods. Bob White(This message has been edited by Bob White)

I guess i look at it differently. If you maintained a boys interest in scouting for 4 1/2 years and helped him to reach the highest award in cub scouting, you have done a fabulous job. More troop leaders need to show respect for the effort you made to see that boy through to Boy scouting by providing a real scouting program and keeping that scout in the program for at least as long as you did. Anything else< in my personal opinion, shows a disrespect for the efforts of volunteers in the cub program. Bob White

You are correct scoutmom, boy leadership and boy planning is not a cub scout method and Webelos are still cub scouts. Cub Leaders are not trained in running a boy lead program because that is not a cub activity. This is what makes using the New Scout Patrol so important. It is in the New Scout Patrol that those concepts are introduced not in webelos. Webelos should prepare the boys to earn their scout badge and develop very basic appreciation of the the outdoors and the skills they will need to learn as Boy Scouts. Bob White

ASK... Attitude Skill Knowledge

Having been a scout leader for several years before my son was even born, I had a lot of time to think about how I would handle things. I never asked my son if you wanted to be a scout or expected him to be one. I did scouting as an adult because I chose to. I wanted my son to make that same choice. So he joined scouts because he was asked at a school cub rally to join. He stays in scouts because he chooses to and he knows that if he quit it would be his decision and that I would continue to be a scouter. On campouts I treat him as I do all other scouts, but I always set aside about 20 minutes where we are just father and son. We both really enjoy those moments. He understands my responsibility to the troop and he knows I take my responsibility to him just as seriously. I never push him to advance. He turned 14 and had 17 meritbadges and was a First Class scout. He worked on the merit badges that interested him and just didn't have enough Eagle requireds in the mix. That was fine with me I figured he'd get them eventually. He is star now and just realized how close to Eagle he is, now that he has all his optional badges done. He has been an APL, Troop Librarian, ASPL, SPL, and Troop Guide, this weekend he is doing his OA ordeal. I offer advice when he asks me as dad or when I see it as the ASM. But away from the meetings we rarely talk scouting, we will only if he brings it up. Don't know if this helps answer your questions but it has worked well for us. Bob White

I highly recommend going back to the manufacturer every time or buy a new tent if you can't. I have had very bad experiences with tent and awning guys working on tents. They're fine with the big old canvas jobs but seem to lack the finesse of working on modern style tentage. I'm sure that do fine on awnings and larger equipment. after seeing one job of zipper replacement on a nylon tent an ASM commented "it's like going to a butcher shop to get your appendix removed". Bob

I think being comfortable in the uniform is about being comfortable with who you are. I have actually seen teenagers run and hide in the middle of a scout meeting when some kids from their class came through a meeting area. I was so proud of my son this last September 11. The President had declared it Patriot's Day and the national office of the BSA asked scouts to wear their uniform to school to display the American Flag. We explained to the troop how unique it was that the Boy Scouts, through an act of congress, get to wear the flag on their uniform and we invited the boys to wear the uniform to school. We only mentioned it once and I did not push it at home at all. My son and a couple of his friends at high school (they are all Freshmen) decided to wear their full uniforms. He had no qualms about doing it. When the class said the plaedge he saluted and the teacher told him he must put his hand over his heart. My son told her an act of congress gave him the responsibility to salute. He goes to a school of over 1400, there are a couple hundred Boy Scouts there, several wore Scout T-shirts that day but only my son and his two friends wore their uniforms. Only 2 kids teased him by asking if they could buy cookies from him, however several teachers stopped him to tell him they had been scouts and a few young ladies asked if they could buy popcorn from him. He was unphased by the whole thing and acted like it was a perfectly normal thing to do. I think the difference between the kids that hide and the ones that don't is a matter of self esteem. If you are ashamed of what you are, then don't be that. If you are ashamed of what you do, then don't do that. It is our responsibility to give kids that sense of value by giving them a scouting program that they are proud to be a part of. Could someone help me down from this soapbox please? Bob White

James here's a helpful tip. On your twine bucket put the hole in the side of the bucket just below the rim of the lid. That way when the bucket gets left in the rain, your twine stays dry. It doesn't effect the out-feed of the twine either. Bob

I'm no lawyer and i don't play one on TV, but before you go making another lawyer richer consider this. According to a law website in order for slander to be a legal matter one of the following conditions must exist. And if its slander then youd also have to show that one of the following - > Youd suffered financial loss > Youd been accused of committing a criminal offence > Youd been accused of having a contagious disease > Your business, trade or professional reputation was damaged > (If you are female) that your conduct (usually sexual) is immoral From what has been written, none of these contitions exist. The Guy just doesn't like you and wrong as he may be he gets to have his opinion. I would be more offended by the behaviour of the COR and the DE. The scoutmaster is clearly overstepping his authority and no one has had the backbone to tell him so. I'm not sure why the DE would even tell you about the charter threat. It accomplished nothing, except to discourage your son. At this point just about everyone has overreacted or under-reacted. The SM Should either put up or shut up. if he has evidence that you should not be in the program then he should give it to the council Scout Executive and let him investigate and act. If the COR doesn't feel you should be expelled he should have said to the SM and committee to get on with business and that you were staying put. The DE should have told the SM to either present evidence or shut up it's none of his business. Your son should not have had access to the troop records, should not have destroyed what wasn't his and should not quit because someone in another troop can't play nice. Just my opinion. Bob White

Patrol names for Webelos dens has been an option for a number of years (at least 7). Bob

Here is an excellent reason to go to training besides the fact that the scouts deserve a leader that knows and uses the scouting program. I am going to keep the circumstances very vague in order to save the families involved further anguish, so please don't ask for details. A civil case against a local Den Leader who had a Cub Scout die during a Den activity has come to an end after more than a year. The accident that killed the scout was not related to the den activity although it happened during the activity. The cub's family filed a civil suit saying that the leader was negligent and contributed to the death of their son. Since the leader had followed the Guide to Safe Scouting, the BSA assisted in her legal defense as was prepared to pay any judgements against her. The judge however found in the Den Leaders favor. What made the difference? She had gone through Den Leader basic training and Youth Protection and had followed the program and it's policies. The judge determined that by being trained and operating the program as she was trained to do showed that she had taken every reasonable precaution to insure the safety of the scouts. Training made the difference. As I said the accident was completely out of the control of the Den Leader. However had she not known and followed the program the judgement could have gone against her and it could have been severe. As volunteers we have a responsibility to protect our own families, as well as the families we serve, from catastrophic loss. training and folowing the scouting program can help protect both groups. Food for thought, Bob White

You might consider following the Monthly themes scheduled by the national cubscout division. That way the articles and activities in Boys Life magazine suppot the activities of your den. Bob White

What you are describing scoutmom is not a problem with the Webelos or Boy scout Program but what happens when a scout goes from a cub program to a bad troop. A troop that uses the New scout Patrol gives scouts a year of buffering to transition from an adult lead program to a boy lead program. A properly trained and lead troop does not have boys bossing boys around. You started asking what is wrong with the Webelos program. What you are really asking is why doesn't your local troop follow the Boy Scout program. Bob White

Cub scout camping, including Webelos, is not meant to be like Boy Scout camping. It is not to have the adventure or the skill level training of Boy Scouting. For instance Webelos are not to go pack packing. The should not use backpack stoves, or substitute Boy Scout camping skills for the skills in the Webelos handbook. It is still a easier family camp type experience. One of the main reasons for this is most Webelos leaders do not have the necessary training to safely do these activities. The other reason is you are not enhancing their Webelos experience, you are diluting their Boy Scouting experience. Everything happens in it's own time based on the ages and stages of the scout. What Webelos is supposed to do is wet their appetite for the troop experience not BE a troop experience. Webelos should prepare a boy to earn his Scout Badge at his first meeting not his Tenderfoot Rank. A better plan would be to follow the program outlined in the Webelos handbook. Let The Troop teach him about Boy Scouting. Often times the Den Leader's anticipation to be a Boy Scout is ahead of the Webelos development and abilities. Bob White

Boxing, karate, and related martial arts - except judo, aikido, and Tai Chi - are not authorized activities. Guide to Safe Scouting Martial arts in general are not approved for Boy Scouts and Venturing! Only the three disciplines listed are approved because they are not impact contact sports. It's important to read the G2SS before you participate in an activity. Bob White

I have to disagree with you scoutmom, 1. Boy Scouts learn in a patrol, Similar to a den but boy run. 2. A boy scout can earn the Life rank spending a total of just 3 nights outdoors. 3. Meetings need not be run strictly by adults you can use a Den Chief or a Webelos Scout to help teach others. Most decisions are still made by adults because Webelos is still Cub Scouting. Bob White

props to mk9750, He really nailed the secret. Don't do shotgun recruiting, do individual selection. identify the job, the skills needed to be successful, the people with those skills, the person you most want to have, and then go ask them to do the job. The way to keep them is keep your word. Don't change the job on them after they say yes. Tell them you appreciate their work, give them a reward when they finish. Have fun, Bob White

Eleanor-akela, Could you be more specific about the manual. The only Power Pack resource I am aware of is a supplement by that name for the cub youth protection program that focuses on how to deal with bullies. Is this the resource you are refering to? What additional administrative duties do you mean? Bob White (This message has been edited by Bob White)

As ASM7 points out the Assistant Scoutmaster position is as a program assistant to the SM and to fill in for the scoutmaster during an absence. The roles that are described by scomman are administartive roles normally done by a troop committee position. (Not a criticism scomman, just an observation based on the contents of the Troop Committee Guidebook.) I think the reason that the Scouters Key Training Award is reserved for SM and not assistants is the unique responsibilities of the SM. Assistants are normally assigned to oversee one piece of the picture where the SM is responsible for the entire thing. Also the Scoutmaster is charged with training junior leaders and knowing the needs and characteristics of each member of the troop, responsibilities not assigned to the assistants. Bob White

Here is an example. As the site explains in the late 1800s cavalry companies were known as troops. This article explains how the colors varied fom time to time. You see in the illustration of the 9th Cavalry, Company I, that it closely resembles a BSA troop flag. http://www.crwflags.com/fotw/flags/us^cav.html Bob White

Eisely, We were at the Cowboy and western heritage musem in Oklahoma city this summer and the US Cavalry troop flag was red over white just like a BSA troop flag. Bob White

Also, people who were inexperienced in the ways of the west were called tenderfoot. Daniel Carter Beard, one of the early contributors to the American scouting movement, incorporated many elements of the old west and outdoor skills into the program. Bob White

I recall from a Boys Life article from back in the 60s that the Troop flag is based on the US Cavalry Troop flags of the 1800s. Bob White

Let us know how it works. remember to focus on the difference THEY will make for the boys, and be sure to take along support materials to show them there are resources to help them be successful. Bob White